6.5x55 Terminal Ballistics

[stalkerboydy]

If an animal runs after being shot it is to greater or lesser extent to the amount of adrenaline and bullet placement.

If the bullet is placed through the top of the heart or immediately above it, the animal will either drop on the spot or move only a few paces.

What a complete utter Bull POOP.

 

[Dorsettaff]

When are we all going to learn?

I've seen sika hit in the chest, smashed hearts with the following:-

6.5 x 55 140 SST & 140 Nos
.243 Nos 95 BT
.308 150 gr Speer SPBT
.300 Win Mag 150gr , 180 Accubond and 180 Grand Slam

and the common factor?

THEY ALL RAN!!! DEER WHEN HIT OFTEN RUN!!

Had a conversation with a good friend and very experienced stalker complaining that the "Holiest of Holies" the venerable .270 with a 130bg SST had failed to exit on a big fallow buck .....and that was after a client had failed to drop it with a .308!

Bang flops look spectacular but lets face it unless we've drilled them though the head/neck with an Amax it usually means we've f**ked up and put one through the spine!

Find a load your happy with...one that is accurate, reliable and deer legal......and stick with it!

 

[jackfish]

Great advice and absolutely spot on!

When are we all going to learn?

I've seen sika hit in the chest, smashed hearts with the following:-

6.5 x 55 140 SST & 140 Nos
.243 Nos 95 BT
.308 150 gr Speer SPBT
.300 Win Mag 150gr , 180 Accubond and 180 Grand Slam

and the common factor?

THEY ALL RAN!!! DEER WHEN HIT OFTEN RUN!!

Had a conversation with a good friend and very experienced stalker complaining that the "Holiest of Holies" the venerable .270 with a 130bg SST had failed to exit on a big fallow buck .....and that was after a client had failed to drop it with a .308!

Bang flops look spectacular but lets face it unless we've drilled them though the head/neck with an Amax it usually means we've f**ked up and put one through the spine!

Find a load your happy with...one that is accurate, reliable and deer legal......and stick with it!

 

[Dalua]

6.5x55 is a marginal cartridge on larger bodied animals unless you know what you're doing with hand loads.

Not sure about that, but having used Norma-loaded 140gr Nosler Partitions in one, I'm inclined to the view that the bullet is unhelpfully 'hard' for Highland reds - which might seem large to us, but compared to a moose, say, are not really terribly big. Combine the unneccessaryily-robust bullet with modest velocities, and disappointing terminal effects might be more common.

Ordinary softpoints of 120-140gr might be a better choice?

 

[Tom D]

Whilst all that is true, Dorsetstaff, I have had runners too, it still doesn't hurt to try and match the load to the game. To really evaluate bullet performance you'd need to shoot a LOT of game. Not something many of us do. I think the real problem is that most of us only shoot a few each year and when we get a bang flop we say this is the best bullet ever, and when we get a runner we say the bullets don't work. That said for all but the biggest reds I think a relatively soft bullet is probably best for U.K. stalking.

 

[Mungo]

Not sure about that, but having used Norma-loaded 140gr Nosler Partitions in one, I'm inclined to the view that the bullet is unhelpfully 'hard' for Highland reds - which might seem large to us, but compared to a moose, say, are not really terribly big. Combine the unneccessaryily-robust bullet with modest velocities, and disappointing terminal effects might be more common.

Ordinary softpoints of 120-140gr might be a better choice?

I think that's more or less it. I think you can actually make a good case for using a ballistic tip. Something like an SST that was designed for long range use on things like antelope - so designed for effective expansion at lower velocities.

The vast majority of runners I've seen from 6.5x55 have been things like springbok and fallow deer, shot at about 150 yards. Bullet pencils through, animal takes off over the horizon. I would say I've seen about 90 animals shot with 6.5x55, and the average distance run has been about 80 yards. By comparison, I've seen several hundred shot with .308, and the average distance run has been about 20 yards.

So it's a matter of changing point of aim to put the bullet through a long bone; working out how to load it faster (in which case, why not just get a .270); or using a (much) softer bullet.

 

[jackfish]

I shoot roughly anywhere between 30-35 deer each year mostly roe with the odd red deer in there. Not a vast amount I know but all are shot with the 6.5x55. I've shot 120g ballistic tip, 120g soft points, 129g SSTs, 140g interlocks and the dredded A-max in different weights. Majority of these are chest shot, Now I've watched most of them drop to the shot or make a few yards but I've seen a few of them run too, as far as I can tell it all depends on shot placement. High shot (spine) usually pole axes them, slightly low or back just a touch and I may need to get the dog involved. Keep it legal, as accurate as possible and put the bullet where it's meant to go, you won't go far wrong!

 

[Selous]

Not sure about that, but having used Norma-loaded 140gr Nosler Partitions in one, I'm inclined to the view that the bullet is unhelpfully 'hard' for Highland reds - which might seem large to us, but compared to a moose, say, are not really terribly big. Combine the unneccessaryily-robust bullet with modest velocities, and disappointing terminal effects might be more common.

Ordinary softpoints of 120-140gr might be a better choice?

I definitely wouldn't call the front core of a partition hard in comparison to other bullets at all. It is just a normal soft point with a protected rear core after all. They normally expand readily losing the majority of the front core behind with the rear core whistling onwards.

 

[LukeSoutherner]

I think that's more or less it. I think you can actually make a good case for using a ballistic tip. Something like an SST that was designed for long range use on things like antelope - so designed for effective expansion at lower velocities.

The vast majority of runners I've seen from 6.5x55 have been things like springbok and fallow deer, shot at about 150 yards. Bullet pencils through, animal takes off over the horizon. I would say I've seen about 90 animals shot with 6.5x55, and the average distance run has been about 80 yards. By comparison, I've seen several hundred shot with .308, and the average distance run has been about 20 yards.

So it's a matter of changing point of aim to put the bullet through a long bone; working out how to load it faster (in which case, why not just get a .270); or using a (much) softer bullet.

My experience last year with red stags was of using a .308 130gr Hornady SP running at about 2600 fps, and all three dropped pretty much on the spot or near. So, lighter bullet doing a decent speed (from a short 16" barrel at least!), and full expansion. Same with a roebuck last year too - 2.5/3" exit hole. It still ran some 50 yards even though it was a perfect heart and lung shot. I'm thinking that there must be a relationship between bullet diameter, weight and length that I could take from the .308 130gr bullet and apply a downsizing formula via a ratio for the 6.5mm. I reckon it will come out at in the region of 100-120gr. Make sense?!?

The reason I wasn't happy this year was that that final bullet did not expand one bit. Not at all. This is partly due to shot placement I agree, but the .308 load from the year before would still have expanded nicely even though I shot too far forward.

 

[willie_gunn]

This is partly due to shot placement I agree, but the .308 load from the year before would still have expanded nicely even though I shot too far forward.

I think you meant:

"This is partly due to shot placement I agree, but the .308 load from the year before would probably still have expanded nicely even though I shot too far forward."

If 20 years of stalking have taught me anything it's that there are no guarantees when it comes to deer.

 

[Dalua]

I definitely wouldn't call the front core of a partition hard in comparison to other bullets at all. It is just a normal soft point with a protected rear core after all. They normally expand readily losing the majority of the front core behind with the rear core whistling onwards.

That might well be correct: my 'hardness' comment is based partly on seeing appartently less damage from them in (admitedly only a handful of) chest-shot deer (apparent from the time to expire, and in the larder) and partly from their being sold as a particularly deep-penetrating bullet. Highland reds, not being particularly deep, do not IMO need particularly deep penetration.

So, the phenomenon might be related to more to lower impact velocity (compounded by hill deer often being shot at longer ranges) than bullet construction - but my feeling is that a bullet of lighter construction, lighter weight, or both, would help.
The high sectional density of 6.5mm bullets might be playing against good terminal effectiveness in lighter animals (such as Highalnd reds) unless the most suitable bullets are used?

 

[Tarvie]

Sorry but it's the complete opposite, a light bullet pushed too fast will blow up, possibly without reaching the vitals. Slow bullets are far more likely to pencil as they lack the impact velocity to open them up. Following your logic the 204 Ruger would be the perfect Cape buffalo round.
Bullet choice is a compromise between expansion and penetration, velocity increases expansion and reduces penetration, (due to the increased expansion). So you want enough velocity to give expansion but enough weight to give adequate penetration. Then you have bullet construction to take into account. A really soft bullet, Vmax for example, fired at high velocity at a large animal may explode in the first 6 inches of flesh and fail to reach the vitals. Fire the same bullet at the same velocity at a small animal and you could blow it to bits. Fire that bullet at a medium sized animal and it might be perfect.. you need to match the calibre, velocity, and bullet to the game that you are looking for.

This is an age old conundrum, it is what spawned the 'premium' bullets like the Nosler partitions. A soft front half mated with a solid rear half, this is supposed to give you the best of both worlds; rapid expansion for lighter animals and deep penetration for heavier game....

Don't disagree Tom which is why I now use 100gr Nosler partition for Roe- light and fast. I have just found the 120gr has a relatively high sectional density and can be pushed quite fast and I haven't been able to get that nice compromise between expansion and penetration that you talk about with the 120gr. I am going to try 125g partitions next to see what that is like

 

[Claret_Dabbler]

There has some shocking rubbish, and some sense talked on this thread.

Back to the OP, load data would suggest a MV of around 2400fps. Combine that with a realitively tough bullet, possibly extended ranges on the hill, and less than perfect shot placement - you are going to get runners.

If you reload, get some 120gr NBT's and load them to 2950fps, the results will improve substantially.

If you don't reload, order up Norma factory ammo with the same bullet.

 

[jackfish]

Don't disagree Tom which is why I now use 100gr Nosler partition for Roe- light and fast. I have just found the 120gr has a relatively high sectional density and can be pushed quite fast and I haven't been able to get that nice compromise between expansion and penetration that you talk about with the 120gr. I am going to try 125g partitions next to see what that is like

View attachment 75658
Excuse the sideways photo, don't know why it does that! This one dropped to the shot today, pinned in the shoulder with 120g Sierra Pro Hunter pushed at around the 3000fps mark from 185m ranged and it was going nowhere! Had it been a heart/lung shot would it have run? Not sure! What I do know is I'm having some good results with this combination, very accurate and I will be trying them out on the hinds this next week.

 

[Southern]

I shoot 140-gr bullets in my ancient 6.5x55mm Sporting Mauser, and in my newer Ruger 77.

But there are so many good 129-gr bullets, I think you could find one load which will let you shoot every deer in the UK and have a lot of reach with energy on target. That is where I am playing now.

 

[pendle]

View attachment 75658
Excuse the sideways photo, don't know why it does that! This one dropped to the shot today, pinned in the shoulder with 120g Sierra Pro Hunter pushed at around the 3000fps mark from 185m ranged and it was going nowhere! Had it been a heart/lung shot would it have run? Not sure! What I do know is I'm having some good results with this combination, very accurate and I will be trying them out on the hinds this next week.

I found the 120grn prohunters great for clearfell roe (drop on the spot ) at close to 3000 fps but to fast for close range woodland fallow they pencil through . So use 139grn ppu for fallow . The skan loads sre great in both my 6.5x55 .

 

[Tarvie]

View attachment 75658
Excuse the sideways photo, don't know why it does that! This one dropped to the shot today, pinned in the shoulder with 120g Sierra Pro Hunter pushed at around the 3000fps mark from 185m ranged and it was going nowhere! Had it been a heart/lung shot would it have run? Not sure! What I do know is I'm having some good results with this combination, very accurate and I will be trying them out on the hinds this next week.

hi Jackfish so what powder and weight are you using with the Prohunters??

 

[jackfish]

hi Jackfish so what powder and weight are you using with the Prohunters??

50.5 grain of N160 in these Tarvie

 

[LukeSoutherner]

I found the 120grn prohunters great for clearfell roe (drop on the spot ) at close to 3000 fps but to fast for close range woodland fallow they pencil through . So use 139grn ppu for fallow . The skan loads sre great in both my 6.5x55 .

That's obviously what you've experienced, but its confused me further! It goes against what others have written - lighter and faster = more expansion; and Heavier and slower = better penetration.

Going to have a play around with some lighter and faster loads on the range. Also going to make sure I'm aiming at the right place next time. Think if the bullet had passed into the hind's ribcage first, rather than front chest flesh, before hitting the lungs, it would have expanded some more as it would have hit something hard. As it was, it didn't hit anything hard until it reached the far ribcage.

 

[Dorsettaff]

Took the Swede out yesterday
140 gr SST loaded over 43.5 gr RS60/RL17

Two shots...two "bang flops"...red spiker and fallow pricket

Ok so one was a head shot and the other was just under the spine in the chest cavity! ( I didn't say I was perfect, but neither ran!)