6.5x55 V .260 Rem

[jcampbellsmith]

Well a range of factory 6.5 x 55 ammunition is widely available so you do not even have to worry about brass supplies. I do not think any .260 factory is available (?)

It's been a while since I bought factory 260 Rem, but between 1999 and 2006 I bought 4 varieties of Remington and Federal factory ammo for the 260 Rem. I'm fairly sure I could still get 140 gr factory ammo in Remington and Federal if I placed a reasonable sized order and wasn't in a hurry. Regards JCS

 

[jackfish]

As informative as ever guys, thank you! I have the 6.5x55 on my ticket and will stick with this. Just looking for pro's and cons. Just one more question, Is the Sako 85 6.5 a medium or long action looking at the specs the other day I could have sworn it said "M".

ATB

​Bryan

 

[Milligan]

As informative as ever guys, thank you! I have the 6.5x55 on my ticket and will stick with this. Just looking for pro's and cons. Just one more question, Is the Sako 85 6.5 a medium or long action looking at the specs the other day I could have sworn it said "M".

ATB

​Bryan

It is indeed an M.
S is .308 family
XS .223 family
L for full size magnums
SM for short magnums

 

[cambsman]

Just accept that the Swede is cooler and move on. Tin hat and coat on...........

 

[tackb]

Just accept that the Swede is cooler and move on. Tin hat and coat on...........

Shut up you fool ! Everybody knows deer are much deader when shot with a 260 than a swede !

 

[User00026]

Just accept that the Swede is cooler and move on. Tin hat and coat on...........

refer to thread about 'boring rifles'..you'll find the Swede is in fact, rather boring ;-0 LOL!

 

[Muir]

What makes the Swede exciting is that the loading data is geared for 1894 rifles. This makes it a challenge/quest for competent handloaders. That's exciting.~Muir

 

[Claret_Dabbler]

What makes the Swede exciting is that the loading data is geared for 1894 rifles. This makes it a challenge/quest for competent handloaders. That's exciting.~Muir

To be fair, this is true. A good hand loader can turn the swede into a passably good deer rifle...

 

[Muir]

To be fair, this is true. A good hand loader can turn the swede into a passably good deer rifle...

Marginal. The word is marginal! ~Muir

 

[6pt-sika]

I have an unscrewed with Husky in 6.5x55 I've worked up a fair to middling load with the Hornady 140 SST . Since its open sights only I might give it a go before my DC Permits run out the end if the month !

 

[6pt-sika]

Might just do the same thing with a Arisaka 6.5 my grandfather brought back from the Philippines in 1946 ! Although that one does very nicely with Hornady factory loads .

 

[JMS906]

Just wondered what's the main difference between these two calibres? My pal tells me (after buying a .260) that more people are now going for the .260 against the 6.5, any reason why? I am no calibre expert and fail to understand the differences sometimes!
Bryan

These might help:

Real Guns - The 260 Remington Versus the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser Part 1
Real Guns - The 260 Remington Versus the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser Part 2
Real Guns - Modern Loads for the 6.5x55 Swedish

-JMS

 

[ejg]

6.5x55 case design is for a lower pressure band than the 260 however it has more case capacity. At the end of the day very even.
As an engineer I don't think it is a wise idea to load a "low pressure" cartridge to higher pressures. Why not just get a different cartridge.
Modern load for the swede...means what? Load over CIP pressure rating? To achieve a performance the cartridge was not designed for?
edi

 

[Brithunter]

6.5x55 case design is for a lower pressure band than the 260 however it has more case capacity. At the end of the day very even.
As an engineer I don't think it is a wise idea to load a "low pressure" cartridge to higher pressures. Why not just get a different cartridge.
Modern load for the swede...means what? Load over CIP pressure rating? To achieve a performance the cartridge was not designed for?
edi

Edi,

Sorry but there is a lot of cobblers talked about brass case strength. What is more important in modern case manufacture is the quality of the brass as I found out with some factory PMC 140 grain 6.5x55 ammunition and of course their quality control. This is why I refused to use any PMC ammunition after this incident.

Anyway after reading carefully through as article in Petersens Rifle Shooter on Souping up the ole 30-30 when i acquired the 30-30 bolt action I carefully used and tested some of their hopped up loads to good effect. The chamber pressures according to Petersens pressure gun are similar to the .308 Winchester and over a chrono the load through my rifle was driving the 130 grain Hornady Spire Point bullet at a little under 2800 fps. Sorry but it was at least a decade ago that I did the chrono test so cannot recall the exact figure. As the rifle shot these loads into nice tight groups load development stopped there and I used it for stalking. I have yet to need to discard any cases from signs of excessive pressure or case web thinning.

Now the difference here is two fold:-

Firstly I was working with pressure gun obtained data.

Secondly we were workign with a modern rifle that would usually have been chambered in .243, .308, .260 which are all high pressure cartridges unlike the ole 30-30 Winchester.

The only reason it's chambered in this cartridge is that someone ordered it so built. I bought it second hand and just fell for the rifle the chambering was not the issue for me and happily I had kept the magazine article and the rest is as they say history.

Now I doubt that many on these forums have even seen let alone heard about "Balloon Headed" cartridge cases. It was those that gave the weak brass it's reputation. Somewhere in one of the American Gun Digests I think it is there is an article on the 45/70 magnum. A chap not only built a fine big game hunting rifle on a Enfield P-14 action but it's chambered in 45/70 and his load development has taken the performance levels to just shy of the .458 Win Mag. He had also not suffered the dreaded case head failure that lots of "experts" predict but then again he was using and loading modern solid head brass and not antique "Balloon Headed" brass. It's the modern case design which stops historic shooters getting the 70 grain of black powder into modern 45/70 brass as without the "Balloon Head" the case capacity is reduced.

Also as an engineer surely you must realise that a certain section of brass can operate safely as a certain pressure. It's the cross section that matters and not the label stamped into the head of the case .

 

[Muir]

6.5x55 case design is for a lower pressure band than the 260 however it has more case capacity. At the end of the day very even.
As an engineer I don't think it is a wise idea to load a "low pressure" cartridge to higher pressures. Why not just get a different cartridge.
Modern load for the swede...means what? Load over CIP pressure rating? To achieve a performance the cartridge was not designed for?
edi

Sorry Edi. You're wrong on this one.
The cartridge cases are made of the same brass as the 260 cases and drawn in the same manner. The cartridge is considered a "low pressure" cartridge because of the rifle it was chambered for, not the cartridge case itself. SAAMI and CIP set there standards to the lowest common denominator. In this case, the 1894 Swedish Mauser. Likewise, the 45-70 that Kevin was talking about is factory loaded, and SAAMI spec'ed to black powder pressures at around 25K psi maximum. That doesn't stop powder companies from listing loads specifically for Ruger single shot rifle and Siamese Mauser bolt guns that eclipse 50K. Same cartridge case, different rifles.

I have never been one to advovate exceeding SAAMI recommendations in modern high intensity cartridges but I have always said that there are a few, like the 45-70, the 6.5x55, 7x57, and certainly in this country, the 8x57, that have been under served by manufactures over the years, and for which judicious handloaders can improve the ballistics to match the modern rifle the cartridges are chambered in. If no 6.5x55 data was available to me for my modern commercial FN Mauser, I would use 260 data with no concerns whatsoever.~Muir

 

[ejg]

Muir, I do not agree, a cartridge is made to work within a pressure band. It must also be flexible enough to seal at the lower end of the pressure band.
It is surely possible that say a Lapua case has the same wall sections as higher pressure cartridges and can possibly be used at the same pressures butwhy not ask Winchester, Lapua etc. if it is ok to use their brass at pressures of a 260rem, will they sign for the safety of the user, even if using a modern action?
If a case ruptures and damage is done to the shooter or bystanders how will the court case end? What will the experts say in the court? Will they stand behind a shooter saying that a cartridge loaded over the given spec is fine just because other cartridges can do that? Where do we stop with the pressure of the swede? At the pressure of a 260 rem or maybe just go right up to 338 LM pressures? If one does not set a limit...there is no limit.
A cartridge in my opinion is set to certain pressure standards because of it's design, not all of the cartridge is surrounded by steel meaning it is not only down to the action.
Of course you are right that some cartridges are factory loaded under spec such as the 8x57 in the US, in Europe on the other hand they load them to their intended pressures, as far as I remember also slightly under 308 pressure level.
edi

 

[Muir]

Muir, I do not agree, a cartridge is made to work within a pressure band. It must also be flexible enough to seal at the lower end of the pressure band.
It is surely possible that say a Lapua case has the same wall sections as higher pressure cartridges and can possibly be used at the same pressures butwhy not ask Winchester, Lapua etc. if it is ok to use their brass at pressures of a 260rem, will they sign for the safety of the user, even if using a modern action?
If a case ruptures and damage is done to the shooter or bystanders how will the court case end? What will the experts say in the court? Will they stand behind a shooter saying that a cartridge loaded over the given spec is fine just because other cartridges can do that? Where do we stop with the pressure of the swede? At the pressure of a 260 rem or maybe just go right up to 338 LM pressures? If one does not set a limit...there is no limit.
A cartridge in my opinion is set to certain pressure standards because of it's design, not all of the cartridge is surrounded by steel meaning it is not only down to the action.
Of course you are right that some cartridges are factory loaded under spec such as the 8x57 in the US, in Europe on the other hand they load them to their intended pressures, as far as I remember also slightly under 308 pressure level.
edi

Gad. Such fretting.
Firstly: No manufacturer guarantees their brass with any handloads. They sell brass. Once you load it -with any load- the responsibility for it's safety is placed on the loader. You would die a quick death in a court case because the offending case/load is no more. They will simply say that no one can prove what happened in the blow up. Case Dismissed. (The following is in caps as emphasis, not an attitude. Newbies take note...)

NO ONE GUARANTEES THE SAFETY OF HANDLOADED AMMUNITION EXCEPT THE PERSON WHO LOADED IT. ONCE ANY SINGLE COMPONENT PART OF A HANDLOAD IS PURCHASED, IT IS UP TO THE HANDLOADER TO INSURE ITS SAFE USAGE.

Remember, I said "judicious handloader". As shown in my example in the above post, manufacturers who produce powder and supply loading data recognize the opportunity to increase performance in certain cartridges. Hodgdon does it, as does V-V in the "6.5x55SE" loads that "are not intended for Krag Jorgensen or Model 1896 Mauser actions" specifying that only modern actions be used. These companies recognize the need for the handloader to be the final judge in the suitability of these high pressure loads for the weapon they are intended for.

If you're not an experienced handloader, or uncomfortable exceeding SAAMI/CIP levels in one of the cartridges listed above per the enhanced loading data provided by manufacturers, then don't do it. Simple as that. Your unwillingness to do so doesn't mean that it can't be done or is an unacceptable practice.~Muir

 

[ejg]

If a manufacturer cannot guaranty a certain Pressure of his brass in a certified arrangement I would think they are not allowed to sell to the market.
I am also convinced that even in the US you would have independent labs that can measure cartridge pressure. Very simple then, in spec barrel and off you go.
Do US ammo manufacturers only rely on their quality control or do they also send ammo to an institute to verify pressures? In other countries they do.
In Germany for example it goes even further, every re-loader can send a few loaded cartridges for testing, you receive written results of the test(not expensive either) . Many use this service before they actually fire a load. Friend of mine does the load development for a cartridge manufacturer....where does he send the loads to?.. The document can be produced before court and is accepted as a certified source. If a blow up occurs and people are hurt mostly the rifle/ammo etc gets confiscated and brought for tests into the lab. Left over ammo is tested to see what the pressure is like etc. In one case a cartridge ruptured, action held. The other cartridges were tested and found to have over 6000 bar pressure which was well above the ~ 4000bar max pressure. I hate to say it but the rifle was a Blaser.
What I am trying to say is that re-loaders have a difficult time trying to cover up if things go wrong. If cartridge is ok and rifle is out of spec...who made the rifle?, if cartridge blows up ...who made the cartridge? He who caused the damage, must pay.
I think we are talking past each other in this case. What I mean is if the spec of a cartridge is say 3900 bar max like 7x57, 8x57 then one should not run it on pressures like the 7x64 which is at 4150 bar max.
I am sure that some US factory loads of the 8x57 and 6.5x55 are loaded way below the ~3900 - 3800 bar level and can certainly be increased to that level with a modern rifle.
edi

 

[Muir]

When you talk "cartridges", meaning loaded ammunition, then all US makers adhere to SAAMI standards. They don't have to by law, but they do because they ARE responsible for loaded ammunition and the use thereof. You wouldn't want a high pressure 7x57 load in a 1902 Remington Rolling Block single shot and the ammo is loaded accordingly. Much like our 8x57 which is loaded to be safe in a .318" bore 1888 Commission Mauser or the 45-70 which is loaded to the specs of a 1873 Trapdoor Springfield. As I said: ammunition manufacturers load to the lowest common denominator. I am sometimes called to test cartridges for an ammunition company and will spend a weekend locked in a lab with a pressure gun and related software. I am well versed in the procedures.

But that's loaded, commercial, ammunition.

Once you reload, all bets are off. Firearms makers do not guarantee their firearms with any handloads. Manufacturers of brass offer the brass but offer "...No liability, expressed or implied, for injuries resulting from the use of this product." As I said in my last post, you the handloader, are solely responsible for your handloads which includes condition of the weapon.

It is up to the shooter/loader to know that his or her rifle is safe. A rifle that lets go with handloads is not going to get you your day in court. Your warranty was void when you put a handloaded cartridge into the chamber. There will be no Judicial Nanny to hear you out and dress your wounds. A rifle that gives out with a factory round?? That's another matter entirely, as you pointed out.

I think we are talking past each other, to a degree. I agree that SAAMI specs are there for a reason and that SAAMI'd ammo is a good thing. When I handload, however, for the cartridges I talked about above, to be used in a modern rifle of modern design, I will use the commercially developed, high pressure data with no qualms. It's my rifle and my responsibility, and I feel that I have the experience to interpret and apply this data safely to my uses. I would hope that others would take that responsibility seriously as well.**~Muir

(** Tho if they did, there wouldn't be so many requests for loading data on shooting/stalking forums!)

 

[ejg]

If a cartridge manufacturer purchases brass from a brass manufacturer in a certain calibre and this brass ruptures below or at max pressure, what do you recon is going to happen? If a private person loads and the brass which ruptures below max pressure nobody will know unless brass and loads are tested in an independent institute. Brass will have to be recalled...of course. One cannot sell products that are not fit for purpose into the marketplace. Manufacturer is responsible. With brass it is very easy as it must be able to withstand a certain pressure upon firing, over 100 years of data can be looked upon...no mysteries. The brass manufacturer has no leg to stand on and would have to pay damages.
Of course it is almost impossible to prove if a gun lets go whether it was a duff load or if other faults lead to the failure, but if people were hurt they will try to find out based on many years of experience. (For example DEVA in Germany was founded 1888)
The 8x57 is not too problematic as there are 4 main cartridges with 4 different pressure specs as far as I know 8x57I, 8x57IR, 8x57IS, 8x57IRS. Only 100 bar difference between the I and IS and the two R versions. The R cartridges are way lower in pressure rating.
I don't know anything about 45-70 but see their are different versions...recon that led to plenty problems. Would one get away with designing a rifle chambered for say a 308Win nowadays that could not take the pressure of a factory round? Using older non spec rifles is risky without know how.
As far as I understand, reloading is there to find the sweet spot for a particular rifle somewhere between min and max pressure. If the achieved energy or speed is not enough one can always look at a different cartridge.
edi