7.62x54r - anyone here reload for it?

[LeftHandGuy]

Not much to add to the title really - just interested if anyone is loading for this calibre, and if so any thoughts, observations and recipes.

I have various load data (Lee, Western Powders etc) but am interested in how others may have got on.

They will be shot through a Valmet M39 (whenever Classic Arms actually get around to shipping it)

Thanks in advance,

Guy

 

[alberta boy]

I load for a Moisin Nagant Sniper and an SVT , to be honest it's a great round to reload . I have quite a lot of data , what bullet weight are you using ? And out of curiosity , is the M39 a 308 or a 311 bore ? I seem to remember that the Finns went to the larger bore with the 39 . Give me an idea what weight you're interested in and I'll send you some data .

AB

 

[Muir]

I shoot this round a lot. I have quite a few rifles chambered for it. (Finn M 91, M-24,M28, M28-2, M-27 rifle and carbine, several of the M-39 rifles and a handful of Russian 91 and 91-30's) Unfortunately, I only shoot cast bullet through them which probably won't help you much.~Muir

 

[LeftHandGuy]

I load for a Moisin Nagant Sniper and an SVT , to be honest it's a great round to reload . I have quite a lot of data , what bullet weight are you using ? And out of curiosity , is the M39 a 308 or a 311 bore ? I seem to remember that the Finns went to the larger bore with the 39 . Give me an idea what weight you're interested in and I'll send you some data .

AB

OK, I'm not actually in possession of the rifle, yet (any day now....) but I understand it is almost certainly a "D" stamped barrel, and not one of the very tight bore (308) ones. If my understanding is correct, the Finns started using the slightly looser bore in order to be able to make use of Soviet ammunition.

Therefore I expect to be looking at a bore of 310-311. I will be slugging it before I shoot anything through it though! If, by some chance it should turn out to have a 308 barrel, then bullet choice will be simple enough.

I have a box of PPU 150 grain SPBT - which measure out at 311. I also have a box of Sierra 311 (303) 150 grain SP - which I will load if the bore looks suitable. My hope is to develop a load that is accurate, doesn't rely on a massively obscure premium bullet, and will perform on deer.

At the moment, I'm not a good position to start casting my own - although it would be something I'd like to do in the future - especially as I aspire to obtain a 455 Webley and will almost certainly acquire a muzzle loader of some sort in order to maximize the number of hunting seasons I can take part in here... For now though, I'll probably stick to buying the bullets of messers Hornady, Sierra, Speer and, possibly, Privi'. Unless that is, somebody suggests something deer appropriate by someone I have not yet heard of.

Thanks for the info so far!

 

[Laurie]

With a refurbished Izhevsk 1891/30 that had been fitted with a PU scope / turn-down bolt etc as an 'ersatz' sniper rifle, I got my best results with the Hornady .310 174gn FMJBT, even better than with the 174gn Sierra MK to my surprise as it's usually the 'go-to' bullet for this cartridge. Powders wise, several worked well, but the outstanding one was IMR-4007SSC, this being the only cartridge that I got really top results in with it. Despite the PU scope limitations and the usual Mosin-Nagant trigger and ergonomic downsides, I could shoot repeatable 100 yard 1-1.5 inch 5-round groups off the bench with it, and best groups got down to the 0.8-inch mark. I know 4007 has been dropped but being in the US, you might find some dusty examples in your LGS. (??)

It's a very tolerant cartridge though, so plenty of powders work very well with it once you find a bullet it likes.

I didn't slug mine, but it must have been on the tighter side of the huge M-N dimensions range. I did try 155gn .308" match bullets and although not as good as the proper 310-311s, they did shoot 1.5-4" groups with Viht N150, in other words what are usually regarded as perfectly acceptable even good groups with a bought as seen surplus military rifle. If it was as I suspect on the tight side and therefore a true .310-311, that may be why the Sierras didn't do as well as they normally do in your average M-N with its 0.312/13 size groove diameter.

Lapua 123gn 0.310" FMJs with N150 at ~3,110 fps were surprisingly effective and fun too shoot too.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Thanks. My LGS is a nice enough place, BUT, very bright, shiny (and not especially cheap, sadly) and not the sort of place where there is a dusty anything. Sadly!

There are a couple of smaller places I haven't yet managed to visit though, so it's useful to know that if I see a tub of IMR4007SSC then it would be a good one to snap up.

One of the things about having moved here is that we avoid all the B-S about expanding and non-expanding bullets. If I want to use SP ammunition at the range, purely for fun, then that is noboddy's business but mine. So if I can develop a plinking/practice round that will also kill humanely then I'll be happy. Very happy!

At the moment I'm not looking to mount a scope, so 150 grain might be a little on the light side for iron sights? I don't know what round the Finns regulated their rifle to? Of course, I'm expecting to have fun-finding-out....

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Quick update. I now have the rifle, and so far as I can tell, it's in pretty nice condition. One crack in the upper hand guard and the barrel and bore were filthy, although they cleaned up pretty well.

I slugged the bore as per this method and seemed to come back with something like .3095. If that is accurate, should I avoid putting .311 bullets through it?

 

[alberta boy]

Quick update. I now have the rifle, and so far as I can tell, it's in pretty nice condition. One crack in the upper hand guard and the barrel and bore were filthy, although they cleaned up pretty well.

I slugged the bore as per this method and seemed to come back with something like .3095. If that is accurate, should I avoid putting .311 bullets through it?

That's what most M-39's will slug out to , including the one I had . I shot .311 bullets through mine with no issues . I tried .308 caliber bullets through it and got mediocre accuracy , the .311's shot very well . The Finns increased the bore diameter on the M-39 so they could use Russian manufactured ammo , which was up to .312 in diameter . It won't have an problems digesting .311's . As always , start low and work up . If you have any issues , stop .
I know a few guys who have put , literally , thousands of surplus M43 ( 7.62X39 ) .311 rounds through their Ruger Mini 30's that have .308 bores . Your bore is , at most , one and a half thou smaller than your bullets . If your still hesitant , try some 308 diameter bullets at first . If you get decent accuracy , you can stop right there with no worries . Keep us posted .

AB

 

[LeftHandGuy]

That's what most M-39's will slug out to , including the one I had . I shot .311 bullets through mine with no issues . I tried .308 caliber bullets through it and got mediocre accuracy , the .311's shot very well . The Finns increased the bore diameter on the M-39 so they could use Russian manufactured ammo , which was up to .312 in diameter . It won't have an problems digesting .311's . As always , start low and work up . If you have any issues , stop .
I know a few guys who have put , literally , thousands of surplus M43 ( 7.62X39 ) .311 rounds through their Ruger Mini 30's that have .308 bores . Your bore is , at most , one and a half thou smaller than your bullets . If your still hesitant , try some 308 diameter bullets at first . If you get decent accuracy , you can stop right there with no worries . Keep us posted .

AB

Thanks - that's reassuring. As soon as I can get my act together (I.e., get my press mounted) I'll load up some of the Sierra 311 bullets I have. As you say - I won't go crazy on the powder charge (likely to be H4895 to begin with, because that's what I could get locally) and take it from there.

A pity though that there don't seem to be any 180-200 grain soft point bullets in 310..... On that matter, do I recall that the 300 Savage was originally loaded with 310 calibre bullets to raise the pressure when shot through 308 rifling?

 

[alberta boy]

Thanks - that's reassuring. As soon as I can get my act together (I.e., get my press mounted) I'll load up some of the Sierra 311 bullets I have. As you say - I won't go crazy on the powder charge (likely to be H4895 to begin with, because that's what I could get locally) and take it from there.

A pity though that there don't seem to be any 180-200 grain soft point bullets in 310..... On that matter, do I recall that the 300 Savage was originally loaded with 310 calibre bullets to raise the pressure when shot through 308 rifling?

I seem to remember something about the 303 Savage having oversized bullets in it's original loading , or it was an oversized bore ? Getting old sucks , the memory is a bit fuzzy at times

AB

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Well, I now have some test loads assembled using H4895 and Sierra 150 grain 303 (.311) bullets. Four rounds in half grain intervals from 46 to 49.5 grains of powder.

Wish I'd read the gumpf that came with the dies though, I didn't realize that the expander ball as supplied by Lee assumes the use of 308 bullets, consequently there are some obvious neck bulges. I've ordered a .311 one. I'm half tempted to pull the lot, resize and recharge. Wish I hadn't crimped the bloody things! My hopes of trying them at the range today were dashed by child illnes anyhow. Two steps forward - one step backwards.....

 

[alberta boy]

Don't feel bad brother , I did the same thing , only in reverse . I bought a set of dies off of a friend and ( wrongly ) assumed that the expander was .308 . I found out when the first .308 bullet fell inside the case . We all make mistakes .

AB

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Don't feel bad brother , I did the same thing , only in reverse . I bought a set of dies off of a friend and ( wrongly ) assumed that the expander was .308 . I found out when the first .308 bullet fell inside the case . We all make mistakes .

AB

Amen!

Most of the bullets seated just fine, but I noticed a little wrinkle in the case neck of one or two after I'd finished. I puzzled about it for a while, then looked at the load data Lee include with their dies (which I generally ignore, as I use the loads printed in the Lee manual - which clearly indicates a 310 bullet....) which states that the loads are developed around 308 bullets, and low and behold, read the Lee website and it's there in black and white. Should have done a little more research first!

Do I risk damage to the rifle chamber in shooting these rounds? Having crimped the bullets in place I don't know that my kinetic hammer will quite do the business in dissassembly....

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Finally I got around to writing up my load development and testing (actually done in September).

I shot the 150 loads during my lunch breaks at work - where they performed perfectly satisfactorily on the rifle targets (6" squares of wood and roughly 2"x6" lumps of old fence post at apprx 30 yards). Which of course told me very little!

I chose some 180 grain bullets (.311 "303" Sierra Pro Hunters) and Using Hornady's IX edn' as a guide, chose H380 powder which it listed with much higher charge weights than the Hogden website.

I loaded 4 rounds in .5 grain increments from 48.5 to 52.5 grains. The brass is PPU once fired, FL resized and trimmed to factory length, and the primers are the ubiquitous CCI200 LR. I started and finished my range session with 3 rounds of factory PPU 150 grain soft points (to act as a sort of control, as well as to free up some more brass for reloading)



The groupings are pretty bad - all I'll say for myself is that I am unused to shooting freehand over open sights with an old RH bolt action. At 49.5 I think I pulled a shot rather badly (either that, or through sheer fluke put a bullet through an extant hole, but I think that's unlikely). At 52 grains I got a pierced primer and stopped (hence only two holes, and no 52.5 target).

The best group were somewhere between 51 and 51.5 - but when I looked over the 51.5 cases again, some of them pretty badly cratered primers (not pierced though) so I've stuck with 51 grains. I did see some people online suggesting that I might use magnum primers with the H380 powder, but I'm not sure. Would be great to have a chronograph too, I'd love to know how fast these bullets are traveling.

I'm not 100% happy with the results. I'm happy that the loads I've made would kill a deer - but I'm looking to start again later in the year with a stick powder in the IMR-4350 range.....