Advice R.E. Mistake on SGC Application

[Corvonas]

Hi all!
I've been a lurker, but not a poster up until now, as I was waiting getting my SGC in hand. It's on that topic I write...

I've been going through the SGC application process in Wiltshire (As I see people have been asking timelines in other threads: New application. Applied October '21, had first call from FEO around two weeks ago). I've had the FEO visit, a chap called Dave with his new trainee, both very nice and the interview/cabinet inspection went well. In the meantime I was awaiting docs from the Doc.

Turnaround was pretty quick, two weeks from my local GP, and I received the filled-out form today. Now here lies the issue... When making my application I cheerily ticked "no" on all of the "is there anything wrong with you" boxes, as I'm (touch wood) fortunate to have stayed healthy throughout my life. Now...it turns up there was a "code" on my record for "depression" 21 years ago when I was 19/20. Never received treatment, never received medication. I'm assuming this was the result of a convo at some point with my GP when I was a mopey teenager, and that became a note on my file... The depression tag in itself would assumingly not be an issue, with time passed, no actual need for treatment etc. The problem as I see is the fact I technically (although innocently) didn't disclose!

I've sent the completed Doc's form to my FEO this afternoon along with a mea culpa and a "wow, I was surprised to see that". I just wanted others with more experience of the process chime in and let me know if I've just been sunk by a clerical issue? Putting myself in the FEO's shoes, I'd immediately take a VERY dim view if what someone had filled on their application, and the contents of the Doctor's report were saying two different things.

Thanks!

 

[Tf223]

I can only talk of other licensing regimes, which commonly place an offence of knowingly misleading or recklessly completing an application. Merrily ticking without reading is reckless - I have prosecuted persons for this offence, but more because it was in my view a deliberate attempt to circumnavigate public safety checks/balances.

Either would be a ground to refuse/prosecute potentially. Prosecution on those grounds is rare, refusal for those grounds is not.

That being said, pragmatism must be applied in determining if either option is appropriate.

If you have explained to the FEO that you were not aware of any such diagnosis and never received any treatment, hence the non-disclosure, then I doubt it’ll be held against you. Especially if further medical records show no ongoing issue/repeat in all that time. They may want/need additional evidence to ensure this is the case.

Honesty is key

Tf223

 

[andyk]

Sounds like you’ve done the sensible thing.

Might it be worth obtaining a copy of your record for that period? If that corroborates that all you did was have a chat about feeling down (for example) then that could help.

 

[Corvonas]

@Tf223 Thank you for the response, it’s very much appreciated.

To clarify, I of course diligently and seriously filled out the form, it was more my writing style above suggesting I just ticked my way through without digesting, definitely not the case!

I think I’ll give my FEO a call tomorrow, although I’m equally torn by not wanting to waste his time with an unsolicited phone all!

Otherwise, I might see if I can get more info out of the GP to clarify exactly what it was that was was causing an unexpected flag.

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

 

[Pedro]

Play it with a straight bat and things should work out fine.

 

[Corvonas]

Hmm. Maybe I got into a bit of a panic unnecessarily. Fear of inadvertently making a false statement to the police will do that to you I guess!

Looking at the old form I filled out (it’s changed since I applied, with no self-declaration but rather the new Dr. request form) the wording is clear: “Have you ever received treatment for depression or any other kind of mental health condition?”

As I was not in fact at any point treated I can’t have incorrectly answered that by stating “no”.

I WILL however inquire further with my doctor; out of curiosity, and to be ready to deliver such in case further info is requested by the FEO, what exactly the marker on my record was about…

Will update here as things proceed, my experience may prove useful to others should discover anything odd/surprising as a result of their own applications.

 

[tonyshooter]

From the SYP website.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Dishonest Medical Declarations.

This is an appeal from Firearms Licensing for all applicants to ensure that they are being truthful regarding their medical declaration. We are currently having to refuse people who have made dishonest declarations regarding their health. In many of these instances the condition identified would not have been a reason for refusal.

A dishonest declaration is a criminal offence and will result in the refusal whereas the existence of a condition may not necessarily result in a refusal.

Particular attention should be paid to the question on your application form “Have you ever been diagnosed with or treated for any of the relevant medical conditions…”

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I think if it were me I would get my records from the Dr's. Just so I knew what and possibly who put it in my notes. The trouble is we have no idea how the "and how are we feeling today then" answer will be interpreted by the person asking.
I know that I tend to be a little guarded when I visit, which is quite regularly. As I have a chronic back problem and hereditary High blood pressure. I do worry that something taken the wrong way could lose me my ticket.

 

[Corvonas]

I think if it were me I would get my records from the Dr's. Just so I knew what and possibly who put it in my notes. The trouble is we have no idea how the "and how are we feeling today then" answer will be interpreted by the person asking.
I know that I tend to be a little guarded when I visit, which is quite regularly. As I have a chronic back problem and hereditary High blood pressure. I do worry that something taken the wrong way could lose me my ticket.

Yup. That’s the first job to do tomorrow morning, followed by a call to the FEO.

Im probably over reacting. I’m surely not the first person that’s had something unexpected pop-up, I’ll have to trust in the process. It just put the wind up me a bit thinking that I might be perceived as telling porkies, when I in fact hadn’t!

As you say, being guarded is likely the right call! A wrong word that’s taken not in the way it was meant can have lifelong consequences it seem! Of course in cases where one does start to have one of the issues asked about on the form of should be flagged . I get why there is a need, and processes like this save lives, as well as hopefully protect everyone’s continued privilege to hold firearms.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Yup. That’s the first job to do tomorrow morning, followed by a call to the FEO.

Im probably over reacting. I’m surely not the first person that’s had something unexpected pop-up, I’ll have to trust in the process. It just put the wind up me a bit thinking that I might be perceived as telling porkies, when I in fact hadn’t!

As you say, being guarded is likely the right call! A wrong word that’s taken not in the way it was meant can have lifelong consequences it seem! Of course in cases where one does start to have one of the issues asked about on the form of should be flagged . I get why there is a need, and processes like this save lives, as well as hopefully protect everyone’s continued privilege to hold firearms.

The issue is trust though isn't it? We end up not trusting the people who we should be able to be completely honest with, for fear of losing our tickets. A question jotted down ie "patient feeling "down", could be added to your notes and interpreted as "Depression" by the clerical staff writing up said notes. Then you possibly end up in trouble over something you have never seen before.
Cost etc aside I do thing this may have caused more damage to Doctor patient trust and potentially the mental heath of so certificate holders as a result. Than it actually flags up through the marker and "flagging" up problems.

 

[gixer1]

Don’t worry about it - it’s 20+ years ago with no required treatment other than a chat and with (I assume) no repeat of this - anyone that can’t understand that is being pedantic.

 

[VSS]

I think you're worrying needlessly.

 

[njc110381]

I fail to see how you can disclose something that you weren't even aware of? That's not you hiding something - it was hidden from you!

 

[Jeff8861]

In regards to gp report can I suggest that when you submit this to you're gp you tell them that you will collect it. Don't let them forward it on to licensing without you seeing the report. This isn't a problem on renewals as such however if its grant you could be caught out.
Gp are now highlighting all mental health issues including the now familiar low mood. For example you have had issues with back pain and you're back and forth and it never gets rectified. Again you contact you're gp and they ask how are you feeling, naturally you say I'm sick it's ruining my life it gets me down etc. The gp will not highlight the back issue but will highlight the low mood. Feo contacts you had low mood five years ago you didn't disclose it, you have no idea what they are talking about. Subsequent you have to submit a further gp report and it comes to light.
In regards to failing to disclose I would suggest that this would be no more than words of advice submit on the next one.

 

[VSS]

In regards to gp report can I suggest that when you submit this to you're gp you tell them that you will collect it. Don't let them forward it on to licensing without you seeing the report. This isn't a problem on renewals as such however if its grant you could be caught out.
Gp are now highlighting all mental health issues including the now familiar low mood. For example you have had issues with back pain and you're back and forth and it never gets rectified. Again you contact you're gp and they ask how are you feeling, naturally you say I'm sick it's ruining my life it gets me down etc. The gp will not highlight the back issue but will highlight the low mood. Feo contacts you had low mood five years ago you didn't disclose it, you have no idea what they are talking about. Subsequent you have to submit a further gp report and it comes to light.
In regards to failing to disclose I would suggest that this would be no more than words of advice submit on the next one.

Do they really write "low mood" in your medical records? Seems a bit petty, if they do.
I once told my doctor that I was feeling thoroughly depressed, whereupon he wrote out a prescription and handed it to me with a smile - it was for viagra.
There's been no mention of that on the GP letter that I had to submit with my most recent renewal, and I've never mentioned it on any of my grants or renewals.

 

[gixer1]

In regards to gp report can I suggest that when you submit this to you're gp you tell them that you will collect it. Don't let them forward it on to licensing without you seeing the report. This isn't a problem on renewals as such however if its grant you could be caught out.
Gp are now highlighting all mental health issues including the now familiar low mood. For example you have had issues with back pain and you're back and forth and it never gets rectified. Again you contact you're gp and they ask how are you feeling, naturally you say I'm sick it's ruining my life it gets me down etc. The gp will not highlight the back issue but will highlight the low mood. Feo contacts you had low mood five years ago you didn't disclose it, you have no idea what they are talking about. Subsequent you have to submit a further gp report and it comes to light.
In regards to failing to disclose I would suggest that this would be no more than words of advice submit on the next one.

The firearms department local to me demands the reports are sent directly to them - so this may not work.

 

[gixer1]

Do they really write "low mood" in your medical records? Seems a bit petty, if they do.
I once told my doctor that I was feeling thoroughly depressed, whereupon he wrote out a prescription and handed it to me with a smile - it was for viagra.
There's been no mention of that on the GP letter that I had to submit with my most recent renewal, and I've never mentioned it on any of my grants or renewals.

I have just completed the paperwork for my renewal and in the section about previous convictions I wrote - “had some 10 or 20 years ago for driving offence but cannot remember what they were”…..a general statement that shows (in my opinion) I have nothing to hide but that I also don’t jot down every thing from the past decades.

I remember I was banned from driving 25 years ago but I don’t remember all the details of every traffic stop I’ve had - I know you can do a search for this somehow but I’ve never really bothered to do one.

I think too much focus is on some details when the reality is they want to make sure you are a person of good standing/character and not a headbanger.

 

[Stalker62]

Do they really write "low mood" in your medical records? Seems a bit petty, if they do.

It is not petty at all.

"Low mood", is seen as a much less pejorative term than "depression".

It shows that the GP is keen not to 'label' unnecessarily.

Most of us, in a lifetime, will suffer from episodes of 'low mood', (mercifully) not all of us will suffer from 'depression'.

 

[enfieldspares]

Most of us, in a lifetime, will suffer from episodes of 'low mood', (mercifully) not all of us will suffer from 'depression'.

Happily, or maybe not, all of my life I only seem to have suffered from "low morals"!

 

[gixer1]

Happily, or maybe not, all of my life I only seem to have suffered from "low morals"!

I used to suffer from “low standards”….luckily so did most of the women….