Africa 2009

[legaleagle69]

I didn't realise there was good hunting in Zambia
as it happens I am quite matey with a barrister who's sister was married to a good friend now unfortunately divorced but still on very good terms with her he is head of the Law Society and works for the Justice Ministry... soo
Think I shall look up my old mate again, take him up on his if anything I can ever do for you offer 8)

 

[shakari]

You'll certainly get good prices in Zimbabwe and there are still some very good operators up there, but the drawbacks are that you need to be ultra careful who you do business with up there and also where you hunt.

First you have the issue of taking your rifles in there if you're a Brit or a Euro, get caught and you'll face a fine, but more importantly, it may well affect your FAC status in the UK or Europe and if you're a resident of the US, you'll face prosecution under the Lacey act, which can mean huge fines, seizure and destruction of trophies and possible jail time.

Then of course, you have the moral issues of whether you want to spend your money in a country where at least some of it will end up financing that particular regime.

The good news is that if you stick to the good, reputable and well established operators up there, you'll have a good hunt at a great price.

I don't really know enough about Zambia to comment properly, except to say there are both good and bad operators up there and that the Govt tends to move the goalposts t short notice - but sadly, that's bcoming more common throughout Africa.

With South Africa, it's a completely different story for dangerous game. It's all very expensive for what it is and it's all behind fences, so you get a completely different hunting experience and I wouldn't recommend SA for any dangerous game hunt.

Mozambique hunting is improving as every year goes by, but I'd recommend you stick to well established operators up there and if at all possible, you only hunt the Coutada areas. You also need to bear in mind that it's bloody hot and bloody tough hunting, so unless you're very fit etc, I wouldn't recommend it as the best option. - Even now, the buff there tend to run for the border if at all dsturbed........ in TZ for example, they'll usually only run a few hundred yards.

Namibia is yet another option, but they have both fenced and unfenced areas, so I'd advise careful checking about the exact area you'll be hunting and who you'll be hunting with.

Hope that helps.

 

[john.d.m]

Hey Mack I realy am so sorry, but I`m going to p**s you off big style, I hope you got a bucket handy
In 1998 I was in Litts just talking crap and having coffee, and Andrew, one of Brownings top men come in, and was talking to Carl, then I heard Carl say, oh John will do that for you.. What will I do Carl ?was my reply.

Then Andrew explained, they had a free hunt the next week for Buff on the Zambezi, and the bloke thatw as going to go, couldn`t, so could I fill his place and just keep a diary of my trip,
Needless to say I was on the cell fone calling the airline then and there, and got flights confiemed etc, and that was it I thought, Then Andrew said "oh we better get you some ammo sorted, would 100rds of 30-06 and 60 rds of 458 be enough? I said I thought I`d probably manage on that.
Well thats how I got my buff, on the 2nd day.Nice one too proper old boy hard boss, worn tips, and scares and rips in his hide.
Was a good stalk too, drove along, saw tracks of a Buff and Elephant so we followed them for an hour, then the trackers started jabbering away, the PH, Pete Barnard, took me back 20 yds, and there he was stood behind a bush watching the trackers, Pete asked me if I liked him as he thought he was what I was looking for, a proper old boy, I said yep, and hit him once and he went down like the perverbial sack, I thought oh this is easy, then he got up and he had 3 more,that was it, 4 shots could be covered by my hand, but 1st was a fraction high, when we checked he`d breathed his last, another one walked out from behind a bush about 30 yds further on, Pete told me to fill the mag again, and if he came I could have him too.
Now Mack if your not realy pi**ed by now, on the 3rd day, we went out early to check baits we`d laid for hyenas, and when we were stalking into the hide, we disturbed a troop of baboons, so we thought we`d ruined our chances, but as we sat in the hide and waited for light, we could see something as it got lighter we could see him a very very nice Leopard, me and Pete actually watched him for 1 hour, (I`m sure Shakari will support me when I say that is rare ), I was doing sums in the sand, and Pete was begging me to shoot it, as it was a good one and we had one on license . So when Pete said you can pay when u get back home I said thank you and whacked him with the 30-06, and boy didnt he go up in the air, I shot again and missed the 2nd shot, I will say, I was starting to think what I`d let myself in for, as I always said I would go with the P.H to track anything I`d wounded ,Pete had seen me shoot and my atitude and he was happy with me going with him if we had to.
But when we got up to the bait, he was there dead as a post, 175lbs of pure power and menace, but hell what a beautiful animal.
I will post a pic of them if I can work out how to agin.
I had the Buff made into rifle and shotgun slips and the Leopard I had as a floor rug, I still got the slips, but coming over here I gave the Leopard skin to a very good friend, because of the CITES cert and NZ, is very very strict on animal product imports.
That hunt I will never never forget.

 

[mack]

africa

Well John, sounds like you had the hunt of a lifetime! Now if its ok with you guys I'm giving up this hunting lark and taking up cross-stitch!

 

[shakari]

John,

Yup, chances of taking a good Leopard by chance like that in most places are about as rare as rocking horse ****................

Some places have less educated Leopards than others, but chances of that kind of encounter are very rare indeed........ congratulations!

 

[legaleagle69]

Wowee John .. you got me salavating.. wondering what I can do to scam myself a hunt out of Robert in Zambia, or even push my mates old lady a little in Namibia and see if we can wangle a hunt out of her contacts but she is very into conservation .. you never know if you don't try eh 8)

When my friend last went back to Zimbabwe he told me that the place was absolutely devoid of all animal life, they locals had eaten everything.
The fields were bare and the farmers had no machinery and little seed.
He was almost in tears as he told me, there are two if not three growing seasons there, the ground was fertile but nobody would work it, the white farmers were asked to set up the farms again and got to harvest time the vetrans association put pressure on Mugabe to take the farms back again which they did just as the crops were almost ready.. guess what the fields are empty yet again now people are starving and as I stated earlier the biggest thing my mate said he saw was an ant so I very much doubt that I will give my money to that regime.

 

[stone]

as i follow this thread with even more interest with all the comments advice coming from those more experienced than myself on african game and the laws and regulations that go with them , i also read with much interest on john's posting on which like shakari pointed out was an excellent post, but now i am dissalusioned
as my hunt in 2003 , like said previously, was very cheap , but very hard work , everthing was walk and stalk over vast areas of ground , i also agree it was fenced land but only for livestock, the animals could move as freely as they wanted , the paper work was in order, i thought as customs on both ends were happy
a ph was involved but i only paid local rates and got the same style of hunting a SA meat hunter would of got , what was so wrong with the way i did it ,or the experience i got,
i think the pics i posted shows it all, a no thrills trip with a hunting experience that will stay with me for a life time
shakari , had sort of put the dampners on what jonathon was trying to help out with and still i feel put the dampners on my whole experience , just because it was cheap
but then came back with a name and email for a freind who at the lower end of the monetry scale of the market, who would be able to help ,which a few of us may in the future be gratefull for
then , to top it all off john then posts another story of a hunt that happened on a whim from being in the right place at the right time while talking crap in litts
jammy so and so got a free hunt on buff which also included a leopard,
no thought or organisation on his part realy, but just to booked a flight and was off ( i think jealousy maybe creeping in about now on my part)
just because i never hunted under the kalahari sunset or stopped in a fly camp for a few days while experiencing drinking beer flown in especialy never made my hunt any less of a true african experience, as it was done the way the locals do it, not for the tourist who may expect these things, as this is the way it seems to be written in some of the mags i read telling you how it can't get any better than this
though i hav mentioned several names in this post ,
this is not a dig at anyone , as i for one value their honest opinions and comments
i just wondered what was so wrong about what i did? and why it was wrong?
stone
by the way john
you are so lucky to hav hunted with pete barnard for free, his nephew or younger brother (not sure which one it was ) once worked for me and sorted out a trip where i only needed to find the flight , but i never realy took him that serious at the time ,
more fool me

 

[MarkH]

Hi Stone

Dont feel dissapointed with your hunt because other people have done other hunts. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. My advice is to try and keep looking at what is on your side of the fence,
I prefer a walking, stalking, hard work hunt rather than sitting in a vehicle bouncing round the bush. The beer tastes so much sweeter back in camp.

Mark

 

[shakari]

Stone,

I didn't mean to put the dampeners on your experiences of Africa - If my comments made you fel that way, I apologise

There's nothing wrong with the hunting experience you had in Africa. Any African hunting experience is good, and indeed my own early hunting experiences in Africa were similar to yours, but many more years ago, when there were fewer laws, fewer fences and the world was in black and white.

My intention wasn't to criticise the SA hunting, it was to point out that the true wilderness areas are simply so much better and so very different...... so I guess you're next step is to try to find a way to hunt such an area. - I promise you won't regret it!

Admittedly, it's harder work, as for example, you spend a lot of time (esp for Buffalo) driving the roads to find the spoor, but once you've found it, you can often expect to walk for anything up to 7 or 8 hours before getting on the Buff.........And there's no guarantee there will be a shooter in the group when you do find them. Sure, occasionally, you find them just a few minutes from the truck........ but not very often. - Once you've walked your Buff down and hunted it the old way, you'll always be proud of that trophy.

I appreciate that not everyone is lucky enough to have the money to enjoy the sort of thing we offer, but nevertheless, I sincerely hope everyone here can find a way to come hunt the dark continent at least once in their lives, and if I get a chance to hunt with any/some/all of them, then so much the better. - If I don't get that opportunity, I'm still more than happy to put you guys in contact with my friends and colleagues who I know are most likely to be able to give you what you want and still give you a good, decent, honourable and ethical product.

I've gotta tell you that I spoke to Jaco soon after he'd received your e-mail and he was still still choking with laughter then!!!

 

[john.d.m]

Stone, DO NOT feel bad about your experiences, as they are YOUR experiences, noone elses and no on can take them from you, I been to places where I had to change the clutch in Land Rover before we could go fo a hunt, I loved that experience too, it`s all part and parcel of life, it`s what gives us our memories.
Like I said before, IMO alot of peoples dreams of Africa died out about 100 yrs ago, but we all have different memories of different experiences, and it`s great we can share them on here with like minded people.
Now where do I have to be and who am I to be talking to, to get another freebie?

 

[legaleagle69]

I have to say Stone old chap I truly wish it had been me in your shoes for the trip you took, as you know from our conversations I have been in a position from time to time to have gone where I wanted and done pretty much anything I wished to do, and with a fair wind, a bit of luck, and a hell of a lot of hard work I hope to be up there again sometime soon.
The one thing I found is that the ability to pay huge sums does not give you any better an experience than if you have to work out how to get something a rich bloke is paying someone else to organise for him.
If you have the grit and determination to chase after something you really want, do the leg work, spend endless hours speaking with agents and outfitters looking for that elusive break, you will get it eventually.
Johns comment about the Landrover clutch made me smile I have spent many happy hours in weird places under landies making running repairs and concocting Heath Robinson get you home contraptions
These were some of the best ever memories.
The latest weird trip was taking an old Jag to Sweden I sold a guy on ebay, he asked me how much to ship the old girl, when I found out the figure I said to my business partner fancy a trip to Stockholm?
Bearing in mind we had no trailer, no towing vehicle and it was a bloody long way.
We bought an old diesel Renault van of a mate who is a scrap dealer for £250, along with an old caravan chassis for a further £50, two weeks later we were on the Malmo bridge heading North towing a transporter we'd built ourselves. It was the most fantastic fun, driving across Sweden early and very frosty morning we saw all sorts of deer, Elks or Moose whatever they were they were big, very big..
Dropped of the car got paid and had lunch watching some of the most stunning girls, even the ugly ones were gorgeous
Hopped in the van and drove back past the Fjords we stopped to watch the sunset were the Vikings had sailed out hundreds of years ago 8)

No one can ever take that from me mate and no one can ever take your trip from you .. 8)
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[stone]

shakari
i was not after an a apoligie from you,or any one else, but , only comments and advice which you hav duly given and i appreciate that , hopefully one day i shall live the dream, i hav often thought about
untill then i shall settle for a 60 inch kudu bull and a decent blue jeans
but a buff with a full boss and a drop to die for, well, i can keep on chasing that dream can't i just can't afford to pay for it at the moment

 

[shakari]

I've no doubt you'll get your Buff etc one day, and as you say, in the meantime, you've got yourself some great trophies and memories....... and believe me when I say, a 60 inch kudu is a fantastic trophy. I know guys that have had six African safaris and still not got close to that!

 

[PeteL1]

I should like to add my twopenn'orth here, for what it's worth.
I've hunted three times with Shakari in Tanzania and each time it's been an experience and a half. This guy knows of which he speaks. All the arrangements were spot on, no hitches. Straightforward, no nonsense, no bull**** sort of fella, I've nothing but good to say of him and his lady.
A previous poster stated a preference for a wild Africa experience without fences. Well, my friend, go to Tanzania to the Selous GR and go with Shakari.
Beware though, you'll catch a dreadful disease know as Safari Syndrome whose sufferers are forever dreaming of going back one day. There is no cure. Mine is in remission at the moment due to lack of money but.....one day,soon, maybe.
Such an experience is not cheap but you'll get a good deal with Shakari.
Now I'm not some big fella with a fat wallet, far from it, I have to save carefully for between two and five years as well as land some decent work before I have sufficient funds.
I'm sure that you'll have just as good an experience elsewhere in Africa, fences or no but when you've sat around the fire in a big game area as the Selous is, rifle in easy reach and the hyenas start tuning up just outside camp, a lion(yes, a real, live wild lion, complete with claws and teeth) calls from not far downriver and you can hear mysterious shuffling noises coming from the trees at the back of your tent - well, there's nothing quite like it.
When you've tracked and shot Buff and walked on the spoor of elephant, you'll find the rest of your life thereafter to be somehow better.
My advice is: If you can scrape enough together to take a Safari, do it.

 

[mack]

This is the reply I had from Jaco whom shakari told us about.

Hi There, Sorry that I only come back to you now. Life is a bit hectic at the moment.

My current prices are as follows:

Day rates 130 pppd
Impala 155
Kudu 665
Warthog 115
Bushpig 145
Bushbuck 376
Duiker 175
Waterbuck 810
Zebra 570
Porcupine 50

All prices are in Pound sterling at an exchange rate that I get R15-00 per pound. I will send you a more detailed mail a bit later. I am attending a very boring workshop over the next two days.

Mark stays in London and my other four friends are all in the south of England, just cant get to the name of the towns they live in, though it is all small places, will let you know later.

Regards


Jaco Human
SA Hunting Experience
www.sahuntexp.co.za
jacohu@mweb.co.za

 

[mack]

africa

Anyone read this months issue of sporting rifle?
The article on shareholder, fractional ownership of an African game farm sounded interesting. How about 'The Stalking Directory Game Farm Consortium'!
http://www.gamefarmestates.co.za/

Back down to earth was the editorial, talking about stalking rights and management being owned and run by stalkers clubs, much as it is in europe, something else we could consider?
Your thoughts, as always, are welcome.
Mack.

 

[smithp18]

Hi Mack
Like you I read the articles and certainly gets you thinking.
All you need is the seed and where’s there’s a will there is always a way,
But its fraught with difficulties.
Finding a number of like minded people that will all get on is probably the hardest thing to achieve.
I would be interested but just how you would get something like this off the ground I have not got a clue.
I bet there are a number of members thinking the same but what would be the way forward.
Like Mack Your thoughts, are more than welcome and I’m think of some of the more experienced people who have been to Africa a number of times like shakari, john.d.m, MarkH, sikamalc. and know the score inside out.
Opportunity’s and new ways to do things are always coming up and is this just a step to far.
Looking forward to the replys on this one and who is really interested.

Smithy

 

[legaleagle69]

If you are thinking of going down that route guys I would suggest chatting with Stone via PM's he may well be able to tell you something about a game farm for sale
I would possibly be interested myself, however not interested in Jaco's deals I prefer the local hunter rates, fifty quid to shoot a porcupine ...lol

 

[shakari]

Guys

I haven't seen that magazine since they chopped an article of mine to bits and then didn't pay me for it........... but FWIW, their African content is usually 'extremely misinformed'...... if it's recommending buying shares in a hunting farm, it sounds like the content hasn't got any better.

Before you buy into a game farm, you need to look at all kinds of things and if you don't, you might as well put all your money in a pile and set light to it...........

 

[mack]

africa

Hi Shakari
was that the article about the problem lions?