Wanted: Air rifle

[Bowland blades]

Personally I would avoid a springer.

If you want to spend ages mastering it- and probably a fair bit of money tuning it- you will eventually be able to shoot it nearly as well as a PCP.

You can't use a springer on sticks or with a bipod, follow up shots are slow and they are all hold sensitive to a certain extent.

Or just skip it and get a PCP which you can shoot in the same way you can a firearm.....

you certainly can use a springer off sticks ! Prone needs to be a no-no but you can use ant soft support ( to be fair its a very rare thing to shoot a springer prone though in the field )
as regards getting used to shooting a springer ...? The better quality / heavier models like the TX , HW are little to no problem
Biggest issue to be fair is a great amount of shooters today have no real time in with them or go very budget to try them . I have shot springers from the late 70s and entered FT events from very soon after from about 82? from that time onwards to the present time the tuners Like the Popes with their venom and the design of the pro-sport and TX
/ TXsr can still to this compete .
Big advantages are 1.Cost 2. very minimum servicing 3. durability 4. reliability 5. lower cost of the whole of the kit ( no charging gear ) .
would i go springer if i was re-entering competitive FT today ? Nope ! but neither would i drop a few grand on quality a PCP and then the scope , charging gear to shoot Rats , ferals etc ? Nope!
Each to their own though

 

[Saracen666]

you certainly can use a springer off sticks ! Prone needs to be a no-no but you can use ant soft support ( to be fair its a very rare thing to shoot a springer prone though in the field )
as regards getting used to shooting a springer ...? The better quality / heavier models like the TX , HW are little to no problem
Biggest issue to be fair is a great amount of shooters today have no real time in with them or go very budget to try them . I have shot springers from the late 70s and entered FT events from very soon after from about 82? from that time onwards to the present time the tuners Like the Popes with their venom and the design of the pro-sport and TX
/ TXsr can still to this compete .
Big advantages are 1.Cost 2. very minimum servicing 3. durability 4. reliability 5. lower cost of the whole of the kit ( no charging gear ) .
would i go springer if i was re-entering competitive FT today ? Nope ! but neither would i drop a few grand on quality a PCP and then the scope , charging gear to shoot Rats , ferals etc ? Nope!
Each to their own though

I'd say that for general, hassle free, vermin shooting, get a springer. They're adequate for hunting vermin at non FAC ranges. I'm not really into air rifles to a great degree, but I've primarily used them for vermin with open sights. I've never had a scope above 4x magnification, but then, I'd regard 40 yards as a long range for a non FAC air rifle. Open sights pocket full of pellets = cheap fun, and no BS.

 

[Sampo]

Get the cheapest PCP you can get with a rotary magazine. Spent a bit of time behind the scope for practice and a single leg shooting stick would be of help to take the weight of the rifle. Springers or break barrel would take longer between shots and you will eventually get tired. A hand pump would suffice than a cylinder for refilling air considering the pain it takes to get it serviced every few years.

You can also get a slingshot if you fancy a challenge as its a lot silent, more rewarding and can have lying around.

 

[Bowland blades]

I'd say that for general, hassle free, vermin shooting, get a springer. They're adequate for hunting vermin at non FAC ranges. I'm not really into air rifles to a great degree, but I've primarily used them for vermin with open sights. I've never had a scope above 4x magnification, but then, I'd regard 40 yards as a long range for a non FAC air rifle. Open sights pocket full of pellets = cheap fun, and no BS.

Its more the accuracy than the kit and the shooter together hold than the power. I have one particular little break barrel i use mainly for killing rats etc in traps or close up , power wise its fine but the accuracy is the limiting bit .

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

you certainly can use a springer off sticks ! Prone needs to be a no-no but you can use ant soft support ( to be fair its a very rare thing to shoot a springer prone though in the field )
as regards getting used to shooting a springer ...? The better quality / heavier models like the TX , HW are little to no problem
Biggest issue to be fair is a great amount of shooters today have no real time in with them or go very budget to try them . I have shot springers from the late 70s and entered FT events from very soon after from about 82? from that time onwards to the present time the tuners Like the Popes with their venom and the design of the pro-sport and TX
/ TXsr can still to this compete .
Big advantages are 1.Cost 2. very minimum servicing 3. durability 4. reliability 5. lower cost of the whole of the kit ( no charging gear ) .
would i go springer if i was re-entering competitive FT today ? Nope ! but neither would i drop a few grand on quality a PCP and then the scope , charging gear to shoot Rats , ferals etc ? Nope!
Each to their own though

I haven't owned as many springers as you- but I'm certainly into double figures.

I agree that a used AA/HW beats a new budget gun. And heavier ones are easier to shoot. But perhaps the most hold sensitive gun I ever had was a HW80k. Most springers are hold sensitive. Its almost inevitable. And a pain!

If you only ever shoot one gun then you can get used to a springer ok. But if you shoot multiple- either air or firearms- then the hold sensitivity will drive you nuts.

Shooting a springer prone is super rare because its damn difficult to reload. But it's often a very good position to shoot. With a pcp unfold the bipod and you have a rock solid shot with a follow up if needed.

A used HW100 or AA would be my suggestion. £12 bipod.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Get the cheapest PCP you can get with a rotary magazine. Spent a bit of time behind the scope for practice and a single leg shooting stick would be of help to take the weight of the rifle. Springers or break barrel would take longer between shots and you will eventually get tired. A hand pump would suffice than a cylinder for refilling air considering the pain it takes to get it serviced every few years.

You can also get a slingshot if you fancy a challenge as its a lot silent, more rewarding and can have lying around.

Personally I would avoid the really cheap PCPs. They aren't as simple as springers and after a few months having slow leaks or needing seals replacing isn't unusual.

Slingshot is a brilliant way to miss lots, wound lots and kill a few quarry at close ranges. Brilliant if you want to avoid armed trespass laws, however.

 

[Bowland blades]

I haven't owned as many springers as you- but I'm certainly into double figures.

I agree that a used AA/HW beats a new budget gun. And heavier ones are easier to shoot. But perhaps the most hold sensitive gun I ever had was a HW80k. Most springers are hold sensitive. Its almost inevitable. And a pain!

If you only ever shoot one gun then you can get used to a springer ok. But if you shoot multiple- either air or firearms- then the hold sensitivity will drive you nuts.

Shooting a springer prone is super rare because its damn difficult to reload. But it's often a very good position to shoot. With a pcp unfold the bipod and you have a rock solid shot with a follow up if needed.

A used HW100 or AA would be my suggestion. £12 bipod.

Not taken a prone shot with any spring gun in years at the latest must have been the big storm of the 80s ( i could hardly stand that night ) , i do think if it was better than it would be seen used more in FT comps surely? . To be fair it doesn't fit the way i hunt its either off hand ( standing) or seated FT style
My 80 is a lazerglide it is of course different inside but i have always done ok with the std version

 

[Saracen666]

Avoid bipod, even for your centrefire.
It's extremely rare that I ever get to shoot prone in any form of hunting.
None of my firearms wear a bipod even on a firing range.
Most firearms, and especially spring air rifles, will not shoot to the same point of impact in other positions, if you've zeroed from a bipod.
Use natural rests, like the palm of your hand, whilst resting on fence posts, the ground, a back pack, a vehicle, a tree, a doorway etc etc.

 

[Bowland blades]

Avoid bipod, even for your centrefire.
It's extremely rare that I ever get to shoot prone in any form of hunting.
None of my firearms wear a bipod even on a firing range.
Most firearms, and especially spring air rifles, will not shoot to the same point of impact in other positions, if you've zeroed from a bipod.
Use natural rests, like the palm of your hand, whilst resting on fence posts, the ground, a back pack, a vehicle, a tree, a doorway etc etc.

I bet more than 70% of Hill stalkers shoot prone off a bipod as the most frequent stance , if we count stalking bipod ( tri pod or quad ) sticks etc in woodland stalking ( the same thing ) I bet that same 70% rule will also stand in that also today. FTR shooters are allowed a bipod but not a rest . Not many stalk with a backpack in the UK , when i take one its generally in the back of an ATV

 

[Saracen666]

I bet more than 70% of Hill stalkers shoot prone off a bipod as the most frequent stance , if we count stalking bipod ( tri pod or quad ) sticks etc in woodland stalking ( the same thing ) I bet that same 70% rule will also stand in that also today. FTR shooters are allowed a bipod but not a rest . Not many stalk with a backpack in the UK , when i take one its generally in the back of an ATV

Hill stalking, perhaps, but what do you do to avoid grass that's too high, other obstacles, and skimming shots or most air rifle or rimfire hunting, when prone is unnecessary, or not practical. I rarely ever get a chance to take a shot prone.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Not taken a prone shot with any spring gun in years at the latest must have been the big storm of the 80s ( i could hardly stand that night ) , i do think if it was better than it would be seen used more in FT comps surely? . To be fair it doesn't fit the way i hunt its either off hand ( standing) or seated FT style
My 80 is a lazerglide it is of course different inside but i have always done ok with the std version

I'm sure you haven't- but is that cause or effect ? Given how difficult they are to use prone- or at least reload- you will no doing avoid prone shots for this reason.

Off hand is the least accurate way of shooting- with a PCP you could use sticks very easily or a bipod or whatever you want.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Avoid bipod, even for your centrefire.
It's extremely rare that I ever get to shoot prone in any form of hunting.
None of my firearms wear a bipod even on a firing range.
Most firearms, and especially spring air rifles, will not shoot to the same point of impact in other positions, if you've zeroed from a bipod.
Use natural rests, like the palm of your hand, whilst resting on fence posts, the ground, a back pack, a vehicle, a tree, a doorway etc etc.

You think most firearms won't shoot at the same POI in other positions at hunting ranges? Why ?

A floating barrel and a decent rigid stock- at hunting distances it shouldn't make any difference at all. Not with most guns. You may get the odd fussy one. But not many.

Fence posts, trees doorways are nothing like as accurate as a bipod or quad sticks in most situations. Sure if it's all you have- fine.

I will agree I very rarely use a bipod. Its usually for fairly specific jobs I fit one. But it's one of the most accurate methods at hunting ranges IMO. And you keep a much lower profile than standing upright with sticks.

 

[Saracen666]

You think most firearms won't shoot at the same POI in other positions at hunting ranges? Why ?

A floating barrel and a decent rigid stock- at hunting distances it shouldn't make any difference at all. Not with most guns. You may get the odd fussy one. But not many.

Fence posts, trees doorways are nothing like as accurate as a bipod or quad sticks in most situations. Sure if it's all you have- fine.

I will agree I very rarely use a bipod. Its usually for fairly specific jobs I fit one. But it's one of the most accurate methods at hunting ranges IMO. And you keep a much lower profile than standing upright with sticks.

It's accurate, but expecting even a 22 to shoot to the same POI off of a bipod if it's been zeroed on one is unlikely, free floating barrel, or not. I've proven this. Results may vary.
As you know, it's all about harmonics / vibrations.
A classic example of this, even with a 22, last week :
RWS subsonic, v CCI subsonic, same weight, but about 1.5" difference in windage at 80 yards!
So there's zero reason to think a bipod zero will replicate a non bipod zero, and yes, the rifle has a free floated barrel. This was on an Anschutz, same happened on a CZ years ago.
Not only that, unless it's a really difficult shot, there's not much reason to lay prone. More movement, long grass etc acting as obstacles.

 

[Bowland blades]

Hill stalking, perhaps, but what do you do to avoid grass that's too high, other obstacles, and skimming shots or most air rifle or rimfire hunting, when prone is unnecessary, or not practical. I rarely ever get a chance to take a shot prone.

grass too high? Attach a longer bipod and after that standing sticks . RF i shoot off hand a fair amount of the time that's a 50 yard shot , woodland stalking mainly off sticks or seated with my back against a tree or wall and taken off a knee or again a bipod / tripod my bipods all adjust higher than i expect to use .
Shooting bunnies is always different from deer stalking , i shoot a fair few running and only really do that on deer to fix a problem

 

[Saracen666]

grass too high? Attach a longer bipod and after that standing sticks . RF i shoot off hand a fair amount of the time that's a 50 yard shot , woodland stalking mainly off sticks or seated with my back against a tree or wall and taken off a knee or again a bipod / tripod my bipods all adjust higher than i expect to use .
Shooting bunnies is always different from deer stalking , i shoot a fair few running and only really do that on deer to fix a problem

It's years since I've shot anything living from a bipod. Why lay prone and contend with obstacles, such as vegetation? No, this time of year, before the fields are cut, no bipod is high enough. Other areas, it might work.
I've shot most rifles and calibres off of a bipod, but that's on a firing range, which isn't always transferable to field use, and as noted, bipod zeros aren't always transferable to some other rest.
I know about neutral holds, ' loading' bipods etc, but if I went out hunting right now, other than a golf course I shoot on, there's not a single place I could take a prone shot.
Sometimes I'll take my superb, though somewhat bulky tripod, sit out somewhere, and use that. It's an awesome bit of kit, though it's still something that has to be lugged about.
Depending where I am, what rifle I'm carrying etc, I've found a soft backpack to be very handy plus of course, you can carry all manner of useful things with you.
I've given up shooting on ranges in recent years, but since at least ten years ago I sold most of my bipods.
Ultimately, it's what works for the individual, and what specific shooting scenario you're in.
What works for me is resting the butt of the rifle in the palm of my hand, and always shooting with both eyes open.
Air rifles, I only use open sights, as sub 40 yards doesn't warrant a scope, in my opinion.
I often use open sights on my DeLisle Carbine, though I'm sticking my IOR GHOST on it later to experiment. One of my 22's is a Mauser training rifle, which I often use with open sights. Obviously, without good light, open sights can't match a scope, though it's surprising how well you can shoot with open sights, though close range, at night, with a torch, doesn’t leave me feeling undergunned.

Ultimately, use what is most practical for your scenario. Will a big scope and bipod be a huge advantage at normal hunting ranges? Most likely not. Is it nice to walk round feeling uncluttered, minus a ton of kit, absolutely!
I'm selling most of my large, high end hunting, and Tactical scopes, as, despite being really fit and strong, carrying too much junk isn't fun.
I often carry a light, 5' long forked stick though.

 

[Bowland blades]

It's years since I've shot anything living from a bipod. Why lay prone and contend with obstacles, such as vegetation? No, this time of year, before the fields are cut, no bipod is high enough. Other areas, it might work.
I've shot most rifles and calibres off of a bipod, but that's on a firing range, which isn't always transferable to field use, and as noted, bipod zeros aren't always transferable to some other rest.
I know about neutral holds, ' loading' bipods etc, but if I went out hunting right now, other than a golf course I shoot on, there's not a single place I could take a prone shot.
Sometimes I'll take my superb, though somewhat bulky tripod, sit out somewhere, and use that. It's an awesome bit of kit, though it's still something that has to be lugged about.
Depending where I am, what rifle I'm carrying etc, I've found a soft backpack to be very handy plus of course, you can carry all manner of useful things with you.
I've given up shooting on ranges in recent years, but since at least ten years ago I sold most of my bipods.
Ultimately, it's what works for the individual, and what specific shooting scenario you're in.
What works for me is resting the butt of the rifle in the palm of my hand, and always shooting with both eyes open.
Air rifles, I only use open sights, as sub 40 yards doesn't warrant a scope, in my opinion.
I often use open sights on my DeLisle Carbine, though I'm sticking my IOR GHOST on it later to experiment. One of my 22's is a Mauser training rifle, which I often use with open sights. Obviously, without good light, open sights can't match a scope, though it's surprising how well you can shoot with open sights, though close range, at night, with a torch, doesn’t leave me feeling undergunned.

Ultimately, use what is most practical for your scenario. Will a big scope and bipod be a huge advantage at normal hunting ranges? Most likely not. Is it nice to walk round feeling uncluttered, minus a ton of kit, absolutely!
I'm selling most of my large, high end hunting, and Tactical scopes, as, despite being really fit and strong, carrying too much junk isn't fun.
I often carry a light, 5' long forked stick though.

repeate from my post after that standing with sticks . All kinds and hights available or you can make a set up

 

[Bowland blades]

I haven't owned as many springers as you- but I'm certainly into double figures.

I agree that a used AA/HW beats a new budget gun. And heavier ones are easier to shoot. But perhaps the most hold sensitive gun I ever had was a HW80k. Most springers are hold sensitive. Its almost inevitable. And a pain!

If you only ever shoot one gun then you can get used to a springer ok. But if you shoot multiple- either air or firearms- then the hold sensitivity will drive you nuts.

Shooting a springer prone is super rare because its damn difficult to reload. But it's often a very good position to shoot. With a pcp unfold the bipod and you have a rock solid shot with a follow up if needed.

A used HW100 or AA would be my suggestion. £12 bipod.

Practice makes perfect loading spring piston single shots , 2-4000 rounds doesnt cost much and will sort efficient / fast loading . indeed if you only have but one magazine to refill you will likely find a break barrel rifle faster over 20-30 shots or so .
Hold sensitivity is not that bad to overcome and the systems of the lazerglide that Venom arms developed and licenced to air arms in their TX and prosport makes the sensitivity largely a none issue .
I have actually never used an attached bipod on any airgun , with the exception of freely held twin sticks when doing feral pigeons in barns . Those inclined angles into the roof space are real hard to free hand steady on the brain box otherwise

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Practice makes perfect loading spring piston single shots , 2-4000 rounds doesnt cost much and will sort efficient / fast loading . indeed if you only have but one magazine to refill you will likely find a break barrel rifle faster over 20-30 shots or so .
Hold sensitivity is not that bad to overcome and the systems of the lazerglide that Venom arms developed and licenced to air arms in their TX and prosport makes the sensitivity largely a none issue .
I have actually never used an attached bipod on any airgun , with the exception of freely held twin sticks when doing feral pigeons in barns . Those inclined angles into the roof space are real hard to free hand steady on the brain box otherwise

Practice certainly does make perfect but who the heck has that sort of time ? Great if you're 14. Not so good for the rest of us.

Plinking is a different argument imo. You can get into quite a nice groove reloading a springer when plinking. But what's cathartic when plinking is undesirable noise, time and movement when hunting.

Perhaps the hold sensitivity is a non issue to a v experienced spring shooter like you- but I can say with real confidence that 99% of shooters will shoot better with a PCP of equal value and quality.

I'm sure you would agree that airgun quarry kill zones are v small- and there's not much margin for error with such a small slow pellet so shot placement is critical. Whatever you can do to improve this is really important IMO. And that includes a bipod, sticks etc which in 99% of peoples hands- is way more accurate than your seated artillary hold or whatever you're doing.

You're applying a circular argument as to why you don't use a bipod when airgun shooting. It's because you don't shoot prone right ? But springers are awkward and fussy prone. And the hold is different and doesn't suit it. Which is why you don't do it. I bet most people use it more if they have a pcp.

I absolutely love my HW99. Its been nicely breathed on- was designed to be sub 12 so shoots great - it's perhaps the most accurate springer I have ever had. But I would still choose a pcp to hunt with given the chance.....if I want to have a plink on a sunny evening- or don't think I will need an airgun but want to chuck something in the car just I'm case- the springer comes with me.

 

[Bowland blades]

Practice certainly does make perfect but who the heck has that sort of time ? Great if you're 14. Not so good for the rest of us.

Plinking is a different argument imo. You can get into quite a nice groove reloading a springer when plinking. But what's cathartic when plinking is undesirable noise, time and movement when hunting.

Perhaps the hold sensitivity is a non issue to a v experienced spring shooter like you- but I can say with real confidence that 99% of shooters will shoot better with a PCP of equal value and quality.

I'm sure you would agree that airgun quarry kill zones are v small- and there's not much margin for error with such a small slow pellet so shot placement is critical. Whatever you can do to improve this is really important IMO. And that includes a bipod, sticks etc which in 99% of peoples hands- is way more accurate than your seated artillary hold or whatever you're doing.

You're applying a circular argument as to why you don't use a bipod when airgun shooting. It's because you don't shoot prone right ? But springers are awkward and fussy prone. And the hold is different and doesn't suit it. Which is why you don't do it. I bet most people use it more if they have a pcp.

I absolutely love my HW99. Its been nicely breathed on- was designed to be sub 12 so shoots great - it's perhaps the most accurate springer I have ever had. But I would still choose a pcp to hunt with given the chance.....if I want to have a plink on a sunny evening- or don't think I will need an airgun but want to chuck something in the car just I'm case- the springer comes with me.

Actually i used to do a lot of prone with the airguns . I dont use it now because i dont need to get my whole front wet and muddy , the range is not anything like long with normal air guns and over decades i have got to be more accurate free hand , i do think the most stable position is as used in FT most commonly the seated position using knees for support , however my bones are starting to say No to that now. I started in very flat fields so prone was a most common stance for concealment. Stalking deer if i can get a prone shot i will nearly always take it as such just for the concealment and stability offered

 

[Saracen666]

Practice certainly does make perfect but who the heck has that sort of time ? Great if you're 14. Not so good for the rest of us.

Plinking is a different argument imo. You can get into quite a nice groove reloading a springer when plinking. But what's cathartic when plinking is undesirable noise, time and movement when hunting.

Perhaps the hold sensitivity is a non issue to a v experienced spring shooter like you- but I can say with real confidence that 99% of shooters will shoot better with a PCP of equal value and quality.

I'm sure you would agree that airgun quarry kill zones are v small- and there's not much margin for error with such a small slow pellet so shot placement is critical. Whatever you can do to improve this is really important IMO. And that includes a bipod, sticks etc which in 99% of peoples hands- is way more accurate than your seated artillary hold or whatever you're doing.

You're applying a circular argument as to why you don't use a bipod when airgun shooting. It's because you don't shoot prone right ? But springers are awkward and fussy prone. And the hold is different and doesn't suit it. Which is why you don't do it. I bet most people use it more if they have a pcp.

I absolutely love my HW99. Its been nicely breathed on- was designed to be sub 12 so shoots great - it's perhaps the most accurate springer I have ever had. But I would still choose a pcp to hunt with given the chance.....if I want to have a plink on a sunny evening- or don't think I will need an airgun but want to chuck something in the car just I'm case- the springer comes with me.