American tendency towards low-powered scopes

[Sako75Hunter]

While perusing a few different online forums on rifle scopes earlier, something struck me that I've always been subconsciously aware of, but had never really given any thought to: is it just my imagination, or do a very high percentage of American hunters seem to prefer low-powered scopes?

I know there are a few on this side of the Atlantic also who favour 4x or even 2.5x fixed mag or similarly low-powered variable scopes for deer, but my impression is that in the States the tendency towards low-powered scopes often seems to be practically the norm.

I wonder why that is? Perhaps the ranges deer are taken at are generally shorter, and hence off-hand shooting without sticks, bipods, etc., is much more common in the US?

Or could it also be down to other factors, such as what people are used to?

Has anyone else noticed this difference? Thoughts from the other side of the Atlantic would be interesting to hear too.

(I'm not a high-power scope nut myself by any means, by the way; 2.5-10x or 3-12x is about right for me.)

 

[paul o']

Wonder if its as they dont need to see there back stop's

 

[Sako75Hunter]

Wonder if its as they dont need to see there back stop's

Now, now, let's try to keep this civil!

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

Maybe more simple than that they use what works and dont fall for the sales hype/bells and whistles.

 

[paul o']

What ? oh I see sorry , what I meant was they shoot on very large open grounds and thick woodland

Now, now, let's try to keep this civil!

 

[paul o']

Going over end of year , so ordering one of these just in case I have to walk round the lakes

 

[alberta boy]

It's more to do with hunting styles and locations , I don't need a 12X scope to see a Moose at 20 yards . It's rare to see people using bipods here as a rule . We hunt in areas that have a lot of undergrowth , all you'd see is grass or sticks . If you hunt in mountainous areas or the open plains , you will see rifles and scopes very similar to what you run into in the UK . I use both , but on heavy recoiling rifles I like simple little scopes , generally , the fixed powers are more durable .
Another factor is cost , in North America the hunting demographic is a lot broader than in the UK or Europe . Simply put , people with lower incomes hunt to feed their family's so they buy cheaper ( fixed power ) scopes , whereas on your side of the pond , those who hunt tend to have more disposable income . I've also noticed , the further North I go , the less variable scopes I see , extreme cold tends to chew up anything that has moving parts .

AB

 

[Tim.243]

Now, now, let's try to keep this civil!

LP Scope....




Tim.243

 

[Sako75Hunter]

It's more to do with hunting styles and locations...

Great reply, explains a lot.

Thanks

 

[Heym SR20]

I also think that the more open gun laws may be a big factor. In the U.K. many have two to four rifles 22rf, a small centrefire calibre foxing / small deer and a bigger Stalking rifle and possibly one other. A lot of hunters have just one. So we can afford to and want to spend the pennies on optics, and many keep changing the optics - it’s part of the fun.

In the US it’s a lot lot easier to swap, change and buy lots more rifles.

And in the US the hunting laws are much stricter with shorter seasons. I think most shooting starts and ends close to sunrise and sunset. And in a lot of the US light quality is a lot better. An optic works in these conditions.

Here in the U.K. we have long seasons, we can shoot from an hour before sunrise to an hour after sunset and in mid winter it’s pretty dark even at midday. You need decent optics just to see a deer.

The Germans have always hunted boar at night under natural moonlight - no artificial light is allowed, hence they have developed superb optics. And we have benefitted from this.

Also the US have high import tariffs on optics, so an already high cost scope, is then more expensive. Leupold by contrast are much cheaper. Look at pricing of Swarovski z3 in the US - these are now US made and are very much cheaper than the z6 etc. In the U.K. Leupold are subject to import tariffs so are more comparably priced to European scopes.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

I also think that the more open gun laws may be a big factor. In the U.K. many have two to four rifles 22rf, a small centrefire calibre foxing / small deer and a bigger Stalking rifle and possibly one other. A lot of hunters have just one. So we can afford to and want to spend the pennies on optics, and many keep changing the optics - it’s part of the fun.

All good points, although my initial post was more about lower scope magnification in the US, rather than expenditure

 

[gonzo]

....I think most shooting starts and ends close to sunrise and sunset. And in a lot of the US light quality is a lot better. An optic works in these conditions.
...

I recall one of our US members mentioning, that the light fades far quicker at his latitude, after sunset. So the low light period that we push into, is just over so quickly for them.

 

[Tulloch]

I think it is all dependent on what the hunters are hunting in the States.

Guys that shoot Elk usually try to have scopes that give them a good range, some of the guys I know use pretty standard but high powered scopes for shooting Elk at up to 650yrds , then you got the guys who use high seat for Whitetails that shoot sub 100yrds in enclosed woods so they wont need much more than a 2.5 to 4x mag scope .

Another factor, it was only a short time ago (sub 20 years) where all our stalkers even on the open hill would be shooting reds usinf a 6x or 8x fixed power scope, in fact the 6x42 scopes were the most popular for deer stalking for up to 30 years. The reason for this is because the emphasis was on the "stalk" not the shooting, the aim was to get as close to the deer as possible but in many cases that mindset has changed, now we are trying to always go for the long shot.

We in the UK do tend to buy scopes that are powered way to high for stalking. even long range 10x and 12x mag is optimum and with the option of cracking back to 6x and below for lowlight allows us to vary our shooting.

I am just finishing off the review for the Zeiss Conquest V4 scope before sending it back to Zeiss. My last hunting trip with I shot 3 deer simultaneously, I had teh scope cracked up to 15x which was max for me as at 300yrds the fields of view was not good enough to track both the shot deer dropping and then getting on to the next quickly enough, if I had it cracked up to 24x, which is the max zoom, I would only see the beast I was aiming at first it would have been almost impossible to track the others.

Many thousands of deer have been shot with low powered scopes and likewise boar etc, low powered scopes are very popular with driven deer and boar hunting on the continent and these scopes just replace the use of iron sights for quick target acquisition.

So I think you buy both what you can afford and what suits your style of hunting. Trust me many UK hunters have no idea what they are buying and why they are buying it, it is not always about the glass you also have to understand the technology and it is not always about the distance there is other factors involved.

 

[Heym SR20]

So I think you buy both what you can afford and what suits your style of hunting. Trust me many UK hunters have no idea what they are buying and why they are buying it, it is not always about the glass you also have to understand the technology and it is not always about the distance there is other factors involved.

Lets be honest, there is lots of very good and effective sales and marketing out there so that 95% of hunters, especially new comers believe that it is impossible to shoot anything without a scope the size of a hubble telescope, and that is carried by a nuclear powered deer recovery system etc etc etc

 

[Erik Hamburger]

I am not at all averse to using modern technology for stalking, such as Thermal Viewers. However as far as scopes are concerned I find a quality fixed power scope such as 6x42 is small, light, cheaper than variable scopes, less likely to develop a mechanical fault, and perfectly adequate for all my hunting needs with shots at deer usually in the 40-60 Yards range, but fox may be 100-150 Yards on occasions. I have been out stalking with many other people who do have variable power scopes - they generally have it turned down to x4 or x6 power, and when you ask they never, or rarely, have a need to turn it up. Also on a standard range target shooting (typically 100 Yards) a x4 or x6 magnification is perfectly adequate. However, each to their own...

 

[sharkey]

I'm in Aust & also favour low powered scopes, especially ones with long eye relief. I have shot a "few" animals over the last few decades & to be honest can never remember ever laying prone on the ground to do so for a single one. Sure I will use a rest like a tree when one is handy but not I will shoot off hand. Even at moving animals, shocking, I know. Low power & good field of view with both eyes open is king in the bush.

 

[Southern]

There are a lot of paper punchers in the USA who have gotten into the ersatz sniper thing, or a tricked out AR15 or AR10 or 6.5 Creedmoor, and they are buying some of the big scopes with 4x or 6x zoom.

But Heym about covered the reality of it. We can't shoot before sunrise or after sunset on any game. Night hunting is legal only for varmints like boar or coyotes, in a few states.

Light is very good a lot of the time, and if it is not, that is because it is raining or snowing, so a high end scope doesn't do any good then.

In the woods, if they are dense, like the South, you need a 1-4x or iron sights. If it is big open timber - like a cypress swamp, mature hardwoods in Pennsylvania mountains, or the pines of Maine - you will often only have a squick shot, offhand, maybe on a walking deer, inside 100 yards.

Us older shooters grew up hunting with iron sights. A 4x scope makes a deer at 200 yards look like one at 50 yards. A 6x scope makes it look like 33 yards. Those are chip shots with iron sights, and with those scopes, if you can hold the rifle steady. Anything over 6x just shows up your heartbeat and tremors, unless you have a solid rest - and many shots here are on your feet, offhand, maybe leaning against a tree.

Most of my rifles have iron sights, about 15 of them have some kind of scope, most of those in QR rings, half of them are 2-7x32, 2-7x35, 2-7x36. Three are 6x42, one is 1.5-6x42, another is 1.25-4x on a .375, a 1-6x tactical on an AR-15. A vintage 1903A3 sporting rifle wears its orginal Zeiss 6x56; another one a 6x40 Swift, another one a 4x Weaver El Paso. I kind of like to keep the older rifles with sights of the era. A custom Mauser .270 built in 1954 has a Redfield aperture sight zeroed at 200 yards and a Lyman Alaskan 2.5x in a slide off Paul Jaeger side mount zeroed at 325 yards. These babies don't go out in nasty weather.

 

[ChesterP]

One of my all time favourite hunting scopes is an old Bisley De Lux 4x44 WA. Great light gathering, nice wide field of view, rapid target acquisition and easy follow up. I still have it here somewhere and may out it back onto one of my rifles. Generally, for woodland shooting or taking larger deer to 100 yds it's probably all the scope needed. It hit home to me just how reliant we've become on high powered scopes a few weekends ago. I was invited to shoot a mate's .303 with iron sights, the rear one having been replaced with a pretty large williams type peep sight, and the front left as the standard thick .303 post.

We were playing about with it at a target 660 yards away (manned butts with targets marked after being shot), and it took just two shots to get on target with the third bullet, probably more by fluke than judgement, landing within the black, probably no more than 8 or 9 inches from the Vee bull. The next few were within 18 inches or so. Not great by today's target standards with high mag scopes and flatter shooting slippery rounds, but still, it goes to prove that with a little practice, there's little doubt that open sights to 100 yds on a naked hunting rifle might make a welcome change...something lightweight with a 20 inch barrel and lowish recoil. That or an aimpoint sight with bright red dot.

 

[slider]

It's more to do with hunting styles and locations , I don't need a 12X scope to see a Moose at 20 yards . It's rare to see people using bipods here as a rule . We hunt in areas that have a lot of undergrowth , all you'd see is grass or sticks . If you hunt in mountainous areas or the open plains , you will see rifles and scopes very similar to what you run into in the UK . I use both , but on heavy recoiling rifles I like simple little scopes , generally , the fixed powers are more durable .
Another factor is cost , in North America the hunting demographic is a lot broader than in the UK or Europe . Simply put , people with lower incomes hunt to feed their family's so they buy cheaper ( fixed power ) scopes , whereas on your side of the pond , those who hunt tend to have more disposable income . I've also noticed , the further North I go , the less variable scopes I see , extreme cold tends to chew up anything that has moving parts .

AB

Pursuing basspro and carbelas web site I see a distinct lack of both illuminated reticle and 56mm objective scopes. Is this a legal thing or just lack of demand

 

[Southern]

Pursuing basspro and carbelas web site I see a distinct lack of both illuminated reticle and 56mm objective scopes. Is this a legal thing or just lack of demand

I don't know of any American companies who manufacture scopes with objective lenses larger than 50mm.
Frankly, a 56mm does best at 8x, because the human eye only dilates to 7mm, and these scopes work best at that in a fixed 8x because of fewer lenses and surfaces.
I can shoot by moonlight with my 6x42 Kahles, seeing the hair and eye details of a coyote in the open forest at 100 yards.

I was invited to shoot a mate's .303 with iron sights, the rear one having been replaced with a pretty large williams type peep sight, and the front left as the standard thick .303 post.

We were playing about with it at a target 660 yards away (manned butts with targets marked after being shot), and it took just two shots to get on target with the third bullet, ....

Some years ago, a friend and I blasted a picked over watermelon field with his K98 and my No.4 MkII. I was able to hit 100% out to 600 yards from sitting, but it ran out of steam there. He was able to hit 75% out to 800 yards from prone with open sights. And we did not have a range finder. We just started about 200 yards and worked our way, shot by shot, then measured by driving out there at the end, and watching the odometer.

When I shot 600 yard and 600 meter military matches with M1, M14, and AR15, we could put most shots into a 10 inch center of the black with iron sights, offhand, and all from sitting and prone. It is all about sight picture. The rest of it - position, breathing, trigger control - are the same for iron sights or a 16x scope.

My USMC Garand M1C from WWII and Korea has the same 2.5x Lyman Alaskan as my .270 Mauser.
My Steyr SSG came with a Kahles 6x42, which I still have on another rifle.
My WWII German rifle has a 6x Zeiss in claw mounts.
My 1903A3, Vietnam era, from Fort Benning, had a Redfield 6x40 on it. I am probably going to replace that with a Weaver K6x38mm

I like smaller, and lighter scopes, for the handling and balance of the hunting rifles.