An excess of Raptors.

[User00025]

We have on our estate an increasing number of birds of prey to the extent that when stalking Kites and Buzzards appear from nowhere. We have sufficient cover for ground nesting birds and partridge to dodge these larger slower birds.
As we are a "Wild" bird place and on top of general vermin we were starting to get a nice few Englishmen around and it was good to see several pairs setting up territories. This week I have seen both English and French predated on by CP's favourite bird the Sparrowhawk and it really makes me long for the bad old days sometimes. Why do these flaming predators always seem to kill the hen bird of any pair. They decimate songbirds and small birds such as partridge, pippets and skylarks, sooner or later there will be very few left, anybody else suffering the same?

 

[Sonicdmb73]

We have on our estate an increasing number of birds of prey to the extent that when stalking Kites and Buzzards appear from nowhere. We have sufficient cover for ground nesting birds and partridge to dodge these larger slower birds.
As we are a "Wild" bird place and on top of general vermin we were starting to get a nice few Englishmen around and it was good to see several pairs setting up territories. This week I have seen both English and French predated on by CP's favourite bird the Sparrowhawk and it really makes me long for the bad old days sometimes. Why do these flaming predators always seem to kill the hen bird of any pair. They decimate songbirds and small birds such as partridge, pippets and skylarks, sooner or later there will be very few left, anybody else suffering the same?

I have seen far more raptors than there used to be. Had one nearly hit me in the head chasing a House Sparrow. Regularly see Buzzards while out shooting or walking the dogs.
I recall clearly the first Buzzard I ever saw it was on Grassington moor in the mid eighties. I can even remember saying “if they’re Common Buzzards why do you never see them”.
Now on my travels for work we see fields full of them looking like a load of Rooks till you get closer. Even going North they are dotted all along the road, not as many as going South.
But all these extra predators have to be eating something not that the fluffy bunny likes to admit

 

[Beretta V]

It’s the same this way. The keepers don’t seem to keep the corvids, squirrels etc under control these days.
I live near a nature reserve and all I seem to see is magpies, crows, buzzards, sparrowhawk, squirrels, fox, badgers etc.
If something doesn’t get done soon it’s going to be too far!
When my dad was a keeper we kept control of vermin. We had a very good head of wildlife and even twitchers use to comment that because there was little amounts of vermin they got to see lots of other species.
Regards Dan

 

[Sika98k]

It’s the same this way. The keepers don’t seem to keep the corvids, squirrels etc under control these days.
I live near a nature reserve and all I seem to see is magpies, crows, buzzards, sparrowhawk, squirrels, fox, badgers etc.
If something doesn’t get done soon it’s going to be too far!
When my dad was a keeper we kept control of vermin. We had a very good head of wildlife and even twitchers use to comment that because there was little amounts of vermin they got to see lots of other species.
Regards Dan

Working on a nature reserve some years ago I was impressed by the amount of predators/ vermin / corvids residing there.

 

[finnbear270]

Expended many a hundred 12 bore cartridges on October / November Corvid roost shoots, in the days I used to be a shotgun user.
Also many a belt full on a drey poking Saturday morning.

 

[bogtrotter]

We have on our estate an increasing number of birds of prey to the extent that when stalking Kites and Buzzards appear from nowhere. We have sufficient cover for ground nesting birds and partridge to dodge these larger slower birds.
As we are a "Wild" bird place and on top of general vermin we were starting to get a nice few Englishmen around and it was good to see several pairs setting up territories. This week I have seen both English and French predated on by CP's favourite bird the Sparrowhawk and it really makes me long for the bad old days sometimes. Why do these flaming predators always seem to kill the hen bird of any pair. They decimate songbirds and small birds such as partridge, pippets and skylarks, sooner or later there will be very few left, anybody else suffering the same?

Seems much the same everywhere.

 

[old keeper]

They never learn! Protect any species that don't have predators and before long you'll be overrun with them, badgers being a prime example. There are very large numbers of buzzards around here, ravens that ten years ago were virtually non-existent are around in numbers. Corvids generally have increased and are seen in large flocks and so it goes on.
It's the same old story, people who legislate for nature and the countryside seem to have little or no real knowledge of it.

 

[Sika-Hunter]

Growing up in the Fens I would rarely have seen the larger raptors it was mainly my favourite the Barn Owls and the diminutive Kestrel which patrolled the field edges, but I am sad to say i'm more likely to see Larger Raptors over the Song birds which once visited the garden. Even the Mistle Thrush is a rarity now which I used to see year on year.

 

[reloader54]

seems to be the chosen way these days,
show a [insert species here] picture and tell media its being killed. bops, otters,badgers, corvids, the list is growing.
sit back and wait for public outcry, often endorsed by cash hungry hypocrite media figure aided by ludicrously biased tv company.
threaten various organisations and depts with judicial revue and or court costs [using gullible peoples cash,, not your own ]
pretty soon you have a fully protected unmanaged species wreaking havoc on the remaining wildlife population.
when it invariably go,s wrong,,,
then you blame everything on farmers and shooters / hunters, and anyone with a job.

I often see people in the countryside with absolutely zero knowledge of how it works, walking through nest sites often with dogs, mountain bikes, and leaving all the crap they brought with them piled up wherever they happen to be parked.
I wonder if these are the very same people who vehemently jump to its defence when any proper management is attempted and oppose it for all their worth.

 

[Hornet 6]

Its called the natural order of things.
Personally I'd much rather see a few raptors about than I would birds kept for shooting.

Neil.

 

[Freeforester]

You'll never find the 'conservation' charidees advocating conservation measures for prey species, only the easy to protect apex predators, and raptors, because it is too easy for them to let them look after themselves, and much, much too hard for them to address the loss of ground nesting birds, etc.

Funnily enough, they're not keen on a wager to permit a neighbouring landowning concern demonstrate the benefits of predator species control, though there is of course overwhelming evidence of the benefit for all (both predator and prey, and the increased biodiversity as a result of such an approach); strange, when one considers that both sides actually want to increase biodiversity, but one side may not be permitted to do so, lest it shows the bankruptcy of the approach by the other.

 

[Uncle f]

So another angle. Raptors for example will only thrive when there is sufficient food availability as this is as nature intends. So what do we do? we put down hundreds and hundreds and in some cases thousands and thousands of games birds be it Partridge’s and or pheasants. We do this year after year after year after year and so on. We even put them down when there tiny and flightless and then we all wonder why are there so many raptors about? Maybe just a hunch here but if we had not provided the equivalent of Sainsbury’s for them there wouldn’t be so many about.
I for one love seeing them as it signals the absolute perfection of that area(s) to have a natural wild predator in good number shows that the areas are at peak levels and tip top. Kites were released on the M40 corridor many years ago for many reasons but most notable was this area was chosen as it has many many games shoots in the vicinity of major roads M40, M4.A40 etc. The game shoots provided large numbers of road kill for the kites to scavenge and also woodland to nest in. It’s not a coincidence they've done so well

for me lovely to see

 

[Rowey]

I remember building and siting a new partridge release pen about 10 years ago. 7 buzzards were overhead circling on the thermals. So I called it the KFC pen. Still goes by that name today. We flood the countryside with Game. No wonder they've increased

 

[reloader54]

Its called the natural order of things.
Personally I'd much rather see a few raptors about than I would birds kept for shooting.

Neil.

way things are going you shouldn't have to wait for long.

circling birds of prey might turn out in the future to be the last thing you'll see. the "natural order" of things eh.

 

[Freeforester]

So another angle. Raptors for example will only thrive when there is sufficient food availability as this is as nature intends. So what do we do? we put down hundreds and hundreds and in some cases thousands and thousands of games birds be it Partridge’s and or pheasants. We do this year after year after year after year and so on. We even put them down when there tiny and flightless and then we all wonder why are there so many raptors about? Maybe just a hunch here but if we had not provided the equivalent of Sainsbury’s for them there wouldn’t be so many about.
I for one love seeing them as it signals the absolute perfection of that area(s) to have a natural wild predator in good number shows that the areas are at peak levels and tip top. Kites were released on the M40 corridor many years ago for many reasons but most notable was this area was chosen as it has many many games shoots in the vicinity of major roads M40, M4.A40 etc. The game shoots provided large numbers of road kill for the kites to scavenge and also woodland to nest in. It’s not a coincidence they've done so well

for me lovely to see

And what of the Kestrels once so numerous, or are they not big enough to matter?

 

[hunter243]

Its called the natural order of things.
Personally I'd much rather see a few raptors about than I would birds kept for shooting.

Neil.

I think nature's natural order could only be achieved without any impact whatsoever from man, which hasn't been possible for centuries and is unlikely to ever be again.
And as for raptors I think most people like to see a 'few' about

 

[Uncle f]

And what of the Kestrels once so numerous, or are they not big enough to matter?

So you do raise a great point. Studies have shown that the increase in buzzards have had a detrimental effect of kestrels and broods. Buzzards are regular predators of kestrel chicks it seems. The reason is that there territory’s overlap more in the small size Uk compared to mainland Europe. Kestrel chicks are easy to predate if your a larger and quite lazy buzzard.
so of course they matter but it comes back to the same argument. More game birds equals more predators. And if these are buzzards in close proximity to kestrels then there is the reason.

 

[reloader54]

wonder what they will eat when game bird releases are curtailed?

 

[Chill 123]

Why as hunters are we happy to see an increase in Barn owls ,kestrels and Hobbies but not the larger raptors
They are only there in large numbers because there is a ready supply of food ,that's how nature works
Chill

 

[reloader54]

To some the demise of other species will be more evident due to habitat, or location, and of course how much they have witnessed in the past.