Any suggestions regarding .270 accuracy issues

[Zetter]

Hi All

I have been going through the mill with my .270 not giving decent groups. When I first had it it was fairly good i.e. producing 1 MOA or better but in the past couple of months the groups have been opening up and producing random fliers giving an average group size of between 1" and 2". This is benched at 100 meters.
I have tried different ammunition (though to be fair all 130grain) and even my reloads (which did work) dont seem a lot better. I have noticed that groups do seem to tighten up a bit when the barrel gets warm and get a fair bit worse with the moderator off.
Today the first couple of shots were well off and required me to adjust the scope in but the rifle has been into my RFD who I got it off for him to have a go with and the scope has open turrets so it could have got knocked possibly.

I have had it out of the chassis and checked that is all tightened up to the manufacturers torque settings so there should be no issues there and the barrel is free floating by the design of the chassis.

As per a previous thread I got Mike up at Carlton Moor range to borescope it after a good clean and the rifling is rough with some chattering but not significant pits or damage apart from that.

I could put it down to me but on a previous session on the range today with my .243 I was setting up my new night/ day scope and put down several <3/4 MOA groups this was despite the less that stellar image on the NV scope at 100 meters.

Overall I am at a bit of a loss but to conclude either the barrel is stuffed which is a bit odd after only 200 rounds or it could be the scope (the only thing I have not changed yet) but would this produce this sort of effect?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


The rifle i a Savage Axis 2 precision.

Cheers Zetter

 

[VSS]

Try a different scope on it for a start, and try the existing scope on a different rifle.

(Incidentally, if, as you say, your group size is between 1" and 2" including the "random fliers", is that really so very bad? Could be just a different batch of ammo doing that. Probably better than I can shoot, whatever! What's the group like if you disregard the obvious fliers?)

 

[Zetter]

Hi VSS

I will try the scope swap next I do have a Nikko Stirling LR that came off my .243 and I know that holds Zero

To give you an idea of groups attached is a picture of some later grouping.

Top is with mod on a barrel warned up the group to the top right represents an 8 shot group the impact on the left of that target was me I pulled the shot

Middle target was with Moderator off

bottom was a 6 shot group first group fired of this session but I had shot a couple of groups before this

 

[User00040]

Hi VSS

I will try the scope swap next I do have a Nikko Stirling LR that came off my .243 and I know that holds Zero

To give you an idea of groups attached is a picture of some later grouping.

Top is with mod on a barrel warned up the group to the top right represents an 8 shot group the impact on the left of that target was me I pulled the shot

Middle target was with Moderator off

bottom was a 6 shot group first group fired of this session but I had shot a couple of groups before this

All of those groups (at 100m?) will kill Roe deer out to 300m if the enlarge in a linear fashion.

I've managed it myself with rifles printing worse groups (think the entire black circle being about where you could expect to hit.

It's supposed to be a stalking rifle, and a .270 is not meant for long strings of shots. I suspect you will be getting significant mirage off the moderator as well after a few rounds.

First round impact accuracy is how I measure a stalking rifle.

 

[VSS]

Well they're consistent, whatever the problem, and accurate enough for stalking. I was getting similar groups from one of my rifles, spread out, high and to the right. It turned out to be partly my fault (changing position slightly between shots, resulting in inconsistent pressure on the bipod, leading to a varying degree of flex in the forend) combined with some crap between the barrel and the woodwork so the free-floating effect was lost.

 

[Zetter]

All of those groups (at 100m?) will kill Roe deer out to 300m if the enlarge in a linear fashion.

I've managed it myself with rifles printing worse groups (think the entire black circle being about where you could expect to hit.

It's supposed to be a stalking rifle, and a .270 is not meant for long strings of shots. I suspect you will be getting significant mirage off the moderator as well after a few rounds.

First round impact accuracy is how I measure a stalking rifle.

Yep all groups at 100meters. Targets are 8" discs I think I didnt mention that in the second post

 

[Rasputin]

When I had my howa in .270 I could put one shot bang on them 2/3/4/5 all started to spread out sometimes quite drastically was even worse off a bench rest. Tried everything ammo scope wise in the end got a friend to watch me shoot who noticed I was flinching very badly after the first shot. He proved the point by subsequently nailing three shots in a clover leaf much to my surprise. Ended up selling that gun but since I got my new 270 which is heavier have had zero problems.

Probably not relevant to your situation but thought might mention as I think the savage is similar to the howa.

 

[Zetter]

When I had my howa in .270 I could put one shot bang on them 2/3/4/5 all started to spread out sometimes quite drastically was even worse off a bench rest. Tried everything ammo scope wise in the end got a friend to watch me shoot who noticed I was flinching very badly after the first shot. He proved the point by subsequently nailing three shots in a clover leaf much to my surprise. Ended up selling that gun but since I got my new 270 which is heavier have had zero problems.

Probably not relevant to your situation but thought might mention as I think the savage is similar to the howa.

Its a thought mate I will try and get someone else to shoot a group before I take the scope off just to double check

 

[VSS]

Its a thought mate I will try and get someone else to shoot a group before I take the scope off just to double check

If you've got any dummy rounds, load the magazine with a few live ones with a dummy mixed in at an unknown point (either get someone else to fill the mag, or mix the rounds up and fill it with your eyes shut or behind your back). Fire the full sequence, and you'll soon find out whether you've got a flinch.

 

[Jelen]

If you've got any dummy rounds, load the magazine with a few live ones with a dummy mixed in at an unknown point (either get someone else to fill the mag, or mix the rounds up and fill it with your eyes shut or behind your back). Fire the full sequence, and you'll soon find out whether you've got a flinch.

You have a valid point about the flinch. Seen it too often in shooters, both on the range and stalking. Mostly with lightweight sporter .270 or the bigger foreign calibres. The worst case was a stalker who swore he didn't flinch. I did exactly what you suggest. I loaded the rifle for him for the first 2 shots and saw him close his eye before the shot!. Told him he was doing it, he said no. The third time I closed the bolt on an empty chamber, passed him the rifle, laid next to him. He squeezed the trigger, click, and I actually saw his closed eye screw up even tighter! He then admitted he had closed his eye.

 

[VSS]

You have a valid point about the flinch. Seen it too often in shooters, both on the range and stalking. Mostly with lightweight spotter .270 or the bigger foreign calibres. The worst case was a stalker who swore he didn't flinch. I did exactly what you suggest. I loaded the rifle for him for the first 2 shots and saw him close his eye before the shot!. Told him he was doing it, he said no. The third time I closed the bolt on an empty chamber, passed him the rifle, laid next to him. He squeezed the trigger, click, and I actually saw his closed eye screw up even tighter! He then admitted he had closed his eye.

Very easy for a habit to develop without realising. Another one is people lifting their head off the stock straight after the shot to look down range. It gets to the point where they're anticipating the shot, and actually lifting their head before the bullet has even left the barrel. In doing so, they drop the butt slightly and the shots go high and wide.... Another scenario for the OP to consider, perhaps?

 

[Hunter300]

Just a thought…. Do you shoot it with a mod, and if so when last was the mod been cleaned

 

[paul o']

Deep clean plug the barrel and fill it with cooper solvent like bore tech , remove the scope and re install . Chill and see how it go's after a birthday .

 

[Hunter300]

Deep clean plug the barrel and fill it with cooper solvent like bore tech , remove the scope and re install . Chill and see how it go's after a birthday .

This goed for the mod too

 

[Hunter300]

Goes for the mod not goed

 

[Herne]

I would check the moderator with a bore scope too, you may find that there is a build up of soot or rust that might just be fractionally affecting the bullet.

check and clean the moderator might solve the issue.

 

[Zetter]

Cheers for the suggestions all. I will check on the flinch to be fair our keeper is a blooming good shot so i will get him to do a couple of groups for me to check its not me if it is I can work on a flinch if I have one. To be fair to the rifle though its not a heavy kicker as its a weighty gun in an MDT chassis with a heavy barrel.

I dont think its the moderator as the groups get worse with it off and you would expect an improvement I would think if there were mod issues.
The barrel had a really good go through cleaning wise with bore polish at Carlton Moor and that didnt really seem to improve matters a great deal but I will give it another good scrub before I get someone else to do some test groups.

 

[Terrydeer]

I thought that having the mod off would automatically change your group size, as you have effectively changed the barrel length and would need to alter the load for accuracy?

 

[75]

Try a different target - something with vertical and horizontal axis lines. I can’t shoot groups into circles like that, just don’t work for me.

If it’s not shooting with mod off then I’m tempted to suggest user error (sorry!). Recoil will be much worse with mod off on a 270 so will exacerbate any flinch / poor technique. If it’s not grouping then first suggestion is usually try it without the mod!

 

[HandB]

When I shoot groups like this it is usually my fault due to jerky trigger control, a bit like the yips when putting in golf. What I do to cure it when it happens is get the rifle set up on target, fully rested with bipod, rear bag etc. Then I cycle the bolt to load a cartridge, then put the safety catch on and take a fake shot. I keep taking these fake shots until my trigger action is smooth, then take off the safety catch. Groups usually tighten up nicely. Here is an example of a group of ten v bulls in a row that I shot on my buddy's .308 Sig at 600yds. Previously with this same rifle with my annoying yips habit I was shooting groups at least twice the size at 600yds.