My wife missed out on furlough because she was on maternity leave for most of last year. She was back a month or so when she contracted Covid at Christmas and has been on statutory sick pay since. The rest of the company has had 80% of their wages for sitting at home for 15 months and she’s punished with £90 a week for actually getting the virus! It beggars belief.
Are UK Outfitters reluctant to deal with British stalkers,
- Thread starter Tulloch
- Start date
My wife missed out on furlough because she was on maternity leave for most of last year. She was back a month or so when she contracted Covid at Christmas and has been on statutory sick pay since. The rest of the company has had 80% of their wages for sitting at home for 15 months and she’s punished with £90 a week for actually getting the virus! It beggars belief.
Just an observation Tulloch.
Your OP was about how difficult and how tight most UK stalkers are, preferring international clients to the majority of us. The other thread you started around the same time as this was about Scottish independence and how you hated the English interference in your countries affairs - in fact you made it pretty clear you didn't like the English very much at all. Now reading your views on both threads as they have developed over the past few days I get the distinct impression that us soft southerners are not really welcome. You're happy to take our money, but you don't really like us very much which is likely to be reflected in the day out we have if we choose you as an "outfitter".
Contrast that with the posts from Malc, another outfitter that I know and respect. His posts and thoughts show professionalism, hard work and enthusiasm and they are welcoming to everyone. They leave the distinct impression that he will go the extra mile and ensure will have a great day out with him as an individual if we choose to go with him.
I'm not a public relations man, but I do think you probably need to take some advise.
Your OP was about how difficult and how tight most UK stalkers are, preferring international clients to the majority of us. The other thread you started around the same time as this was about Scottish independence and how you hated the English interference in your countries affairs - in fact you made it pretty clear you didn't like the English very much at all. Now reading your views on both threads as they have developed over the past few days I get the distinct impression that us soft southerners are not really welcome. You're happy to take our money, but you don't really like us very much which is likely to be reflected in the day out we have if we choose you as an "outfitter".
Contrast that with the posts from Malc, another outfitter that I know and respect. His posts and thoughts show professionalism, hard work and enthusiasm and they are welcoming to everyone. They leave the distinct impression that he will go the extra mile and ensure will have a great day out with him as an individual if we choose to go with him.
I'm not a public relations man, but I do think you probably need to take some advise.
Yes I would agree with that.
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
That really sucks.
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
All you have to do is hide the word outfitter on your website and any google search will find it. You don’t actually have to call yourself an outfitter
South West Stalkers
Well-Known Member
Reading this thread with much interest... I am "lucky" enough to do for a living what I love and actually I do it with passion. Farming and stalking.
Before I moved to the UK I had been guiding clients in Hungary, mainly from the Continent but some from the UK too, for about 15 years. (for a hunting club)
Now I am building my own stalking business slowly, step by step... not easy especially at this time.
Expectations and prices...
I can see a huge difference in expectations between how the stalkers see the hunting/stalking here and in the continent and I believe the stalking community has the biggest influence on it...
I can barely read a thread here on this forum or on facebook without seeing comments like "I've never paid for stalking" or "costs only a bottle at Christmas" or "it is a service and farmers should pay for it" etc
and also I can mainly see pictures and posts of successful outings (like 2-6 deer on the ground)
For many stalkers (mainly newbies?) that is going to be the normal and that sort of communication of success sets the expectations very high or sometimes makes it unreal. And anyway, No one would pay for something what is free...
Regarding prices... hunters/stalkers from the continent know that free stalking doesn't exist... simple...
on the continent, the damage in the crops by deer & boar drive the prices up high. As in most of the countries on the continent, the hunting clubs are financially responsible for the damage caused by deer and boar. In South West of Hungary, a 3000 ha hunting club (30 members, not for profit org) can easily pay €100 000 /year as a compensation for the farmers/owners!
Trophy hunting and various driven hunting help to stay afloat...
I think, people there simply accept the main reason what's behind the "high" prices and it is not directly related to personal wealth or salaries.
I'd been lucky enough to guide a few hunters who saved for 5-7 years for a trophy stag.
After uncountable chats with many stalkers about the trips I organise, I have a feeling that, yes stalkers form the UK are after an unlimited bag for a set fee just like here for deer stalking. But I always make the expectations clear and don't even promise anything in order to get a few bookings...
Before I moved to the UK I had been guiding clients in Hungary, mainly from the Continent but some from the UK too, for about 15 years. (for a hunting club)
Now I am building my own stalking business slowly, step by step... not easy especially at this time.
Expectations and prices...
I can see a huge difference in expectations between how the stalkers see the hunting/stalking here and in the continent and I believe the stalking community has the biggest influence on it...
I can barely read a thread here on this forum or on facebook without seeing comments like "I've never paid for stalking" or "costs only a bottle at Christmas" or "it is a service and farmers should pay for it" etc
and also I can mainly see pictures and posts of successful outings (like 2-6 deer on the ground)
For many stalkers (mainly newbies?) that is going to be the normal and that sort of communication of success sets the expectations very high or sometimes makes it unreal. And anyway, No one would pay for something what is free...
Regarding prices... hunters/stalkers from the continent know that free stalking doesn't exist... simple...
on the continent, the damage in the crops by deer & boar drive the prices up high. As in most of the countries on the continent, the hunting clubs are financially responsible for the damage caused by deer and boar. In South West of Hungary, a 3000 ha hunting club (30 members, not for profit org) can easily pay €100 000 /year as a compensation for the farmers/owners!
Trophy hunting and various driven hunting help to stay afloat...
I think, people there simply accept the main reason what's behind the "high" prices and it is not directly related to personal wealth or salaries.
I'd been lucky enough to guide a few hunters who saved for 5-7 years for a trophy stag.
After uncountable chats with many stalkers about the trips I organise, I have a feeling that, yes stalkers form the UK are after an unlimited bag for a set fee just like here for deer stalking. But I always make the expectations clear and don't even promise anything in order to get a few bookings...
Kjm041
Well-Known Member
This point may have already been made, I didn’t read all 6 pages yet 
, but I assume European hunters who are first abroad, in holiday mode, likely relatively well to do if paying for foreign hunting trips, are likely to be more amenable to the costs then the UK stalker who is eager just to get out. I’m not justifying bad behaviour at all. I just mean if I was in Germany I might not blink at a £1000 boar for the “experience” of it but the local lad who does nothing but shoot boar might...
, but I assume European hunters who are first abroad, in holiday mode, likely relatively well to do if paying for foreign hunting trips, are likely to be more amenable to the costs then the UK stalker who is eager just to get out. I’m not justifying bad behaviour at all. I just mean if I was in Germany I might not blink at a £1000 boar for the “experience” of it but the local lad who does nothing but shoot boar might...
GUIDE
OUTFITTER
SPORTING AGENT
GUNRUNNER
All have to earn a crust
K
OUTFITTER
SPORTING AGENT
GUNRUNNER
All have to earn a crust
K
I imagine gun-running is a pretty tough gig...
Dhindes
Well-Known Member
Interesting discussion. I am British but now live in Europe and have lived in US in the past. I have hunted in all of them.
Generally UK is a very reasonably priced place to hunt - with far more game and super countryside, plus better sense of humor. People outside UK are generally used to paying more to hunt - or are tight wads who resent paying much and never leave their own country - so you tend to get "better healed" clients or those willing to invest coming to UK.
Now when I come I make it clear I enjoy the hunt, if I thought I would shoot every time it would be called shooting, Much like fishing you need to be an optimist but have no great expectation. I do prefer guides who charge for the day and then more for the shot. I am not interested in trophies so manage my costs by shooting cull animals.
Sometimes I have outfitters who reject me because of that - seems they want the trophy fees, which is fine, but I would have thought a good market should exist for people who enjoy the stalk and a cull animal for the pot is a bonus.
I still come back to UK to stalk as often as I can - France is getting more attention now I have found that the national forestry organizes hunting for the public which is easy to access, varied and very good value - they even offer 40% discount for new hunters. Can not see the Forestry commission doing that !!!
Generally UK is a very reasonably priced place to hunt - with far more game and super countryside, plus better sense of humor. People outside UK are generally used to paying more to hunt - or are tight wads who resent paying much and never leave their own country - so you tend to get "better healed" clients or those willing to invest coming to UK.
Now when I come I make it clear I enjoy the hunt, if I thought I would shoot every time it would be called shooting, Much like fishing you need to be an optimist but have no great expectation. I do prefer guides who charge for the day and then more for the shot. I am not interested in trophies so manage my costs by shooting cull animals.
Sometimes I have outfitters who reject me because of that - seems they want the trophy fees, which is fine, but I would have thought a good market should exist for people who enjoy the stalk and a cull animal for the pot is a bonus.
I still come back to UK to stalk as often as I can - France is getting more attention now I have found that the national forestry organizes hunting for the public which is easy to access, varied and very good value - they even offer 40% discount for new hunters. Can not see the Forestry commission doing that !!!
Moray Outfitting
Well-Known Member
I once advertised hind stalking up in Caithness on the Flow Country. A wild flat expanse of ground that made stalking very difficult. I was amazed at the number of guys that called and asked about it. Not that they were keen to try pitting their stalking on the flat ground against the deer. But the comment "How many can I shoot in day" . When told that it could be one or if lucky maybe 3, the answer back was that that wasn't worth their while coming out. They would need to shoot at least 8 a day to be worth it. They were politely told that they did not want to go stalking but go killing. !!...J
My experience of an outing with a well known, self publicising stalker put me off paid outings for a long time.. I explained that I had my own ground but wanted to learn from the outing and how to graloch and inspect . At no point was the prospect of no success mentioned and I agreed the £175 for Roe buck plus carcass and additions if medal, MJ were no charge but ’unlikely’
Arrived at the range and the guys seemed annoyed my cheap Howa and crappy hawke scope shot so well... anyway
Parked up the truck, and 5 minutes in the perfect opportunity on MJ presented itself, was told not one to take so carried on, I was amazed how loud the guy walked but I followed along. Stopped to tell me about Red deer moving he spotted through his thermal and moved on..
Eventually found a MJ in the woods but there was no good shot in my opinion so passed it up. Off we stomped around a couple of huge fields with the ‘guide’ ****ting around on Facebook and making no attempt to engage, I spotted a group of Roe with a couple of bucks with my crappy binos and pointed them out to the Harkila and Leica clad, Rigby carrying stalker who advised that ‘he had finished the Roe numbers for the year’.
More facebooking on the stomp back to the truck with 45 minutes to go to be presented with a perfect MJ which I was told not to shoot in case it ran as there wasn’t enough to light to find it (despite my rifle being spot on and his top of the range optics and thermal)
Truck back to the yard, a receipt for the £175 and that was it...
With examples like this no wonder people get ****ed off with cost. I wasn’t fussed about the lack of venison in the boot so much as the guys attitude.
Thankfully I have found a guide closer to me who seems much more switched on and I hope to get out on an outing soon!
Arrived at the range and the guys seemed annoyed my cheap Howa and crappy hawke scope shot so well... anyway
Parked up the truck, and 5 minutes in the perfect opportunity on MJ presented itself, was told not one to take so carried on, I was amazed how loud the guy walked but I followed along. Stopped to tell me about Red deer moving he spotted through his thermal and moved on..
Eventually found a MJ in the woods but there was no good shot in my opinion so passed it up. Off we stomped around a couple of huge fields with the ‘guide’ ****ting around on Facebook and making no attempt to engage, I spotted a group of Roe with a couple of bucks with my crappy binos and pointed them out to the Harkila and Leica clad, Rigby carrying stalker who advised that ‘he had finished the Roe numbers for the year’.
More facebooking on the stomp back to the truck with 45 minutes to go to be presented with a perfect MJ which I was told not to shoot in case it ran as there wasn’t enough to light to find it (despite my rifle being spot on and his top of the range optics and thermal)
Truck back to the yard, a receipt for the £175 and that was it...
With examples like this no wonder people get ****ed off with cost. I wasn’t fussed about the lack of venison in the boot so much as the guys attitude.
Thankfully I have found a guide closer to me who seems much more switched on and I hope to get out on an outing soon!
I came across a similar arrangement when winding up a large estate - the tenant farmers all belonged to and paid a fee to a company which provided hunting over the land. If the farmers then suffered damage to their crops, the hunting company compensated the farmer for the damage.
Going on a stalking trip/holiday and shooting 8 deer a day does not sound like fun.
Either they want to spend all their time dragging stuff out and lardering (with very little sleep), or they would expect the stalker to do it for them. If the latter, then they should be paying for the service.
Do guests comprehend the work involved with dealing with multiple animals in a day - I wonder.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
no guarantees apart from death and taxation and leaky waders
Hope you get the PM. What particular caught my eye is the following:
“I explained that I had my own ground but wanted to learn from the outing and how to graloch and inspect.”
K
Guys, I don’t want to name on a public forum as it’s a small world and I would not want to damage his business (although employed by the estate and does outings for extra money), I have tried to drop a few clues as to who it is.
His attitude and the fact he agreed a Roe stalk which he charged for and then said they had done the numbers annoyed me the most, ****ing around on Facebook boiled my urine too....
His attitude and the fact he agreed a Roe stalk which he charged for and then said they had done the numbers annoyed me the most, ****ing around on Facebook boiled my urine too....
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