Are UK Outfitters reluctant to deal with British stalkers,

[Big_Sparky]

Can’t believe I read all of that.....

Just wanted to add a little bit as I don’t think some of the comments directed quite personally at @Tulloch are fair - some of the constructive comments probably are but others are a little poor. I’ve stalked with David several times - never had a blank day. He’s keen to teach - he’s taken the time to show me how to gralloch and is very patient. He’s a good crack and I very much enjoy discussing things with him across all sorts of topics. I would suggest he probably isn’t what Id describe as “an outfitter” - and, to be honest, as (not robbing an earlier suggestion!) a truck driver myself - he’s one of the few guides I can afford to go out with on a Semi regular basis. I’ve stalked with another couple of guys on here and actually had two blank days - but would still not actually criticise either of them - both good blokes, knowledgeable and helpful - both of them do tend to take foreign clients and charge an awful lot more - if anything Covid was a blessing for me in that aspect as they slashed prices just to get someone out and, I’d certainly go out with them again!
Back to the OP and another comment I noticed - As an Englishman (who stays in Scotland!) I can also honestly say I also love discussing politics with David, clearly a passionate man in his political beliefs but certainly it isn’t a personal thing or an “anti English” thing at all. I haven’t read his Scottish Indy thread but I rather think others opinions of that are quite possibly just social media for you and the nature of folks to argue a position online without ever listening to anyone else’s view or ever considering to change their own opinion. The old adage that someone would post an opinion very different to the one they’d say to your face!

For me personally, the early days of paying to stalk was a learning curve - I’d done a few days paid work for a stalker on a local estate with a herd of 700 plus deer and also a few days on an uninhabited island where there’s also several hundred reds...... you don’t need to stalk - you could sneak up behind them and rugby tackle the buggers! In fact - some of the stags you could just walk straight up to them!! And then I paid to stalk woodland roe..... and thought something was away when it took a whole day to find one!!

anyways..... unusually for me.... I’m rambling on ah ha ha. In summary - i find @Tulloch the sort of fella who likes a good debate rather than someone who has an intractable opinion and I’m looking forward to my next outing with a good chew of the political fat in the car on the way!!
Cheers

 

[foxdropper]

It’s the internet mate .Everybody will have a different take on anything written which makes for variety if nothing else .

 

[YoungGun]

Hope you get the PM. What particular caught my eye is the following:
“I explained that I had my own ground but wanted to learn from the outing and how to graloch and inspect.”
K

And this is why I ask - I have my own ground, but other than friends and family of the landowners, I do not take guests out.

I regularly get asked about places to stalk by peers/colleagues, and have limited experience from when I was doing pay and play in my youth, but would like a heads up on the interesting guides to save face.

 

[HallyButt]

And this is why I ask - I have my own ground, but other than friends and family of the landowners, I do not take guests out.

I regularly get asked about places to stalk by peers/colleagues, and have limited experience from when I was doing pay and play in my youth, but would like a heads up on the interesting guides to save face.

Don’t worry, they are a long way from South Wales

 

[Fursty Ferret]

I wouldn't pay to shoot anything......I am used to it being the other way around, so thats one less Brit you will have to worry about

 

[Tulloch]

Just an observation Tulloch.

Your OP was about how difficult and how tight most UK stalkers are, preferring international clients to the majority of us. The other thread you started around the same time as this was about Scottish independence and how you hated the English interference in your countries affairs - in fact you made it pretty clear you didn't like the English very much at all. Now reading your views on both threads as they have developed over the past few days I get the distinct impression that us soft southerners are not really welcome. You're happy to take our money, but you don't really like us very much which is likely to be reflected in the day out we have if we choose you as an "outfitter".

Contrast that with the posts from Malc, another outfitter that I know and respect. His posts and thoughts show professionalism, hard work and enthusiasm and they are welcoming to everyone. They leave the distinct impression that he will go the extra mile and ensure will have a great day out with him as an individual if we choose to go with him.

I'm not a public relations man, but I do think you probably need to take some advise.

I never said such a thing and you seem to twist what I said.

My OP was an opinion from other Outfitters in fact I clearly said majority of my clients are from the UK and probably always will be so I am far from anti English in my sentiments.

I did not start the Post on Indyref so let me make that clear, there was far far many comments to that thread that was highly derrogatory towards Scotland and the Scottish people. The OP of that thread asked the question why People below the border were not allowed to vote in regards to a Scottish Indyref. So please get that right.

I have many friends and family both in England and Scotland and I have a lot of people who are very close friends who live in Scotland but are from England so please do not think for a second I am anti anything but Westminster and I have always been clear about that. All I highlighted was that people have a lot to say about Scotland and its politics when they don't actually stay here but still want a say in what goes on here. Please do not start putting words in my mouth.

I like a good debate and I do not mind being proved wrong.

Never upon never think I am anti English or against people moving and staying here because I am not. See what people don't understand is that I am pro immigration, pro inclusion also pro legislation and pro gun ownership and I am pro independence. You can be all of that but there are members of this community that are against all of that.

I asked the question on this post because it was a conversation I have regularly had with other stalking providers and it is clear by some of the comments that it was not unjustified to ask.

I guess some just don't like to hear that some companies deliberately over price to deliberately exclude *local" stalkers from stalking with them. I guess the truth hurts.

 

[Trigger260]

If you can't afford to go stalking, I've been told that golf is on average 30-50quid for 3-4 hours!
That's without a ghillie though
Good night

 

[User00040]

There should be an independent review site or some system for reviewing estates/stalkers/outfitters.

We know that stalking is a small world and nearly everyone knows or knows of someone else either directly or by association.

So long as the identity of the reviewer was also revealed for all to see, which should keep things honest.

 

[Leec6.5]

Interested to know who the guide was - please pm.

Took me less than 10 seconds to figure that out.

 

[HallyButt]

Took me less than 10 seconds to figure that out.

If you know, you’ll know .. a couple of people have guessed correctly, seems the titting around on phone is a constant

 

[devon deer stalker]

Took me less than 10 seconds to figure that out.

I think a few of us on here did the same!

 

[Happy stalker]

The answer to this is simple, go back to employing more stalkers to manage the ground especially in forestry as this is basically pest control, and let stalkings days as and when, rather than folk buying up leases then having to charge a price to cover the lease and make a wage on top, sadly there is far to many wannabes out there all the gear and no idea!
I have seen my fair share of wannabes!

 

[NigelM]

I never said such a thing and you seem to twist what I said.

My OP was an opinion from other Outfitters in fact I clearly said majority of my clients are from the UK and probably always will be so I am far from anti English in my sentiments.

I did not start the Post on Indyref so let me make that clear, there was far far many comments to that thread that was highly derrogatory towards Scotland and the Scottish people. The OP of that thread asked the question why People below the border were not allowed to vote in regards to a Scottish Indyref. So please get that right.

I have many friends and family both in England and Scotland and I have a lot of people who are very close friends who live in Scotland but are from England so please do not think for a second I am anti anything but Westminster and I have always been clear about that. All I highlighted was that people have a lot to say about Scotland and its politics when they don't actually stay here but still want a say in what goes on here. Please do not start putting words in my mouth.

I like a good debate and I do not mind being proved wrong.

Never upon never think I am anti English or against people moving and staying here because I am not. See what people don't understand is that I am pro immigration, pro inclusion also pro legislation and pro gun ownership and I am pro independence. You can be all of that but there are members of this community that are against all of that.

I asked the question on this post because it was a conversation I have regularly had with other stalking providers and it is clear by some of the comments that it was not unjustified to ask.

I guess some just don't like to hear that some companies deliberately over price to deliberately exclude *local" stalkers from stalking with them. I guess the truth hurts.

As I said, it was just an observation having read both your posts. Nothing personal, just saying it how I saw them. I suspect a few others took on board the same message too. Good to hear that's not the case.

 

[muddy42]

As an aside, it drives me nuts when guides (or whatever you call them) advertise several types of stalking (often as a drop down on a website) as follows "roe bucks", "red stags" (complete with photos of massive antlers) and "cull stalking." When you investigate what "cull stalking" is, it turns out only to happen in the doe/hind season. I appreciate this may be to make this simple for foreign punters, but I find it pretty disrespectful to our noble quarry.

 

[Tulloch]

There should be an independent review site or some system for reviewing estates/stalkers/outfitters.

We know that stalking is a small world and nearly everyone knows or knows of someone else either directly or by association.

So long as the identity of the reviewer was also revealed for all to see, whic

As an aside, it drives me nuts when guides (or whatever you call them) advertise several types of stalking (often as a drop down on a website) as follows "roe bucks", "red stags" (complete with photos of massive antlers) and "cull stalking." When you investigate what "cull stalking" is, it turns out only to happen in the doe/hind season. I appreciate this may be to make this simple for foreign punters, but I find it pretty disrespectful to our noble quarry.

I never do that as I don't do trophy stalking .

I do have set rates .

£80 for Roe Does
£120 for Roe Bucks
£200 for Hinds Red or Sika
And
£450 for stags Red or Sika.

unaccompanied is available

I retain carcass but any trophies can be taken away for free.

thats my standard rates I dont care about trophy or shot fees and tips are optional . I also give no guarantees except I will try my damdest to get you on a deer.

but the way things are going I won't be selling anymore guided days after this year. As got better plans for the future

 

[Klenchblaize]

Sadly there is far to many wannabes out there all the gear and no idea!
I have seen my fair share of wannabes!

It was ever thus!

K

 

[levigsp]

That’s a simple question to answer!

an outfitter is internationally recognised as a person or company that arranges hunting trips.

you want foreign clients you advertise as an outfitter

Only in very recent times. and if you type hunting outfitter into search bar youll still get hunt clothing specialist., out fitter simply cloths.
I have been asked why people advertise as outfitter and don't sell hunting clothes!!! by Europeans etc
They are known as hunting guides, specialists, organisers, agents or agency's, but not outfitters , they are only outfitters in USA. or, and i know this will upset some people -they are outfitters in the eyes of some who simply think they are better or offer better than others..

 

[Leec6.5]

I never do that as I don't do trophy stalking .

I do have set rates .

£80 for Roe Does
£120 for Roe Bucks
£200 for Hinds Red or Sika
And
£450 for stags Red or Sika.

unaccompanied is available

I retain carcass but any trophies can be taken away for free.

thats my standard rates I dont care about trophy or shot fees and tips are optional . I also give no guarantees except I will try my damdest to get you on a deer.

but the way things are going I won't be selling anymore guided days after this year. As got better plans for the future

You prices are reasonable, what your missing is an outing fee!

that’s where your losing money.

the way I see your pricing is that if your client doesn’t get a beast, you’ve slugged your guts out for nowt.

 

[levigsp]

The only time I’ve been disappointed bordering angry is when the guide has moved the goal posts from initial settings .
I bought a stag in Scotland years ago ,payed for one of the lads that works for me to shoot one as well .We weren’t after trophies but were told anything goes as the stags only came to that patch to rut . I was told it was a set fee and nothing else .
The lad I took shot 3 roe first day ,all free we were told .He’d shot his fair share of roe with me at home .Next day I was on the rifle and we got onto a stag that was roaring after a decent roam on the hills above the lodge .I was told by the guide some stalkers had waited a lifetime to shoot a stag roaring so how lucky was I .I was just about to pull the trigger when he leans in and states it will cost me 500 notes to shoot that 10 pointer or it goes on the lodge wall .I hadn’t driven 600 miles to see it skip away ,I was determined to have it out with him later .
What a time to tell a person that .I shot it ,we dragged the thing a good 2 miles with the guide and waited for him to fetch a quad .We tied the stag to the quad then I was instructed to drive the quad as he’d hurt his back .For someone with a bad back he skipped over the heather like a teenager and was gone leaving me and my mate to negotiate the bogs with the quad and stag .No problem with graft at all but I was confused why he left us behind .
Getting back to the lodge I brought the subject up and he confessed id shot it way over the March and he couldn’t get caught there ffs .We nearly came to blows I can tell you .He hadn’t been honest about the ground ,expectations or the fact his only held roe and red at night .
I payed the set fee for my stag and we left that evening on what should of been a weeks stalking ,no limits no trophy fees .Lad that works for me grabbed the head just as we were leaving much to the guides annoyance .
This was of course a one off ,the guide no longer advertises but just shows it happens .
This chap either thought we were rogues or poaching was the norm for him .
If he hadn’t asked for the 500 we’d of been none the wiser and probably shot a few more in our weeks stay on someone else’s ground ffs .
Telling the truth beforehand saves a lot of built up expectations on the day .Moving the goal posts seems to happen more frequently than is reported .Stating a certain type of beast is part of the agreed price yet being told it’s too good when ones glassed or it’s in an impossible extraction location .
Personally that would be the icing on the cake to extract such a beast even if packed out in pieces .Some guides are very set in their ways and won’t deviate to show results even when fitness and drive are in bucket loads from the client .

So was this in north Sutherland per chance?

 

[levigsp]

This maybe a business but its also way of life its not all aboutand money,, yes there are times that its hard to make ends
meet and like everyone else we have bills to pay, like Tulloch I drive an older truck but I get by, I manage to make a living I will never be well off never mind
rich.
There might be the odd client that grinds my gears but all in all I'm happy with my lot, thats why I'm still wirking at age
71 . Still think I have the best job in the world.

As I have said previously my clients are predominatley Europeans and due to Covid restrictions I have not worked since
the first of February 2020 .
Its not just living expenses but business expenses that still need to be paid although there has been nothing coming
Into the business and what little savings are all but gone

This is not a plea for sympathy nor a moan about my lot its simply to show that while working with overseas clients
in the main has been good for me , this is the downside that something out of the blue like the Covid pandemic can
bring everything to a sudden halt.

Never mind Boggy is still living the dream

Very well put and guiding guests for any form of hunt, is the best job in the world.