As the lands erode with usage do you have to re develop home loads

[Warbucks]

When i developed a load for my 22-250 using hornady 50g v-max i ended up with an overall length being 16 thou off the lands, after a few years of use now i have worn 24thou off the lands.
In use mainly sub 200 yds foxing, most of what i point at is a clean kill, but i have had some shots that have missed, and playing back the recorded shot the crosshairs were on kill zone, its not just the first shot out of a cold clean barrel either it happens randomly (flier).
Do i need to adjust the seating depth back to 16 thou to where the lands are 'now' -------if that makes sense ---------what does everyone else do as the rifle lands erode ?

Thanks Dave (warbucks)

 

[tackb]

personally i take no notice of throat erosion , i care more about grouping ability

once it doesn't consistently group thats when i investigate

 

[Donkey Basher]

When i developed a load for my 22-250 using hornady 50g v-max i ended up with an overall length being 16 thou off the lands, after a few years of use now i have worn 24thou off the lands.
In use mainly sub 200 yds foxing, most of what i point at is a clean kill, but i have had some shots that have missed, and playing back the recorded shot the crosshairs were on kill zone, its not just the first shot out of a cold clean barrel either it happens randomly (flier).
Do i need to adjust the seating depth back to 16 thou to where the lands are 'now' -------if that makes sense ---------what does everyone else do as the rifle lands erode ?

Thanks Dave (warbucks)

What scope are you using? - I’ve got an Alpex 4K LRF & have had some similarly confusing misses using that this winter… playback & cross hairs bang on but have missed - one shot confirmed low as I found cut belly hair where the muntjac had been stood, several where the shot has hit but was significantly lower than the cross hairs were on the target & one where I am certain the shot should have landed forward of the front shoulder on a quartering animal but missed it completely so have to assume it went wide in front.

This is on a rifle that otherwise is a tack driver!

I’m planning on shooting some targets with it over the summer as I’ve only started using it on the does this winter. I want to see if it does throw shots & whether there is a common factor to it. I’ve already done some comparisons between the drop the ballistic app calculates & my real world data for it & the error is nowhere near big enough to explain the missed/low shots - it’s around an inch at 500 yards & all these shots have been in the 200-300 yard range.

 

[Lateral]

When i developed a load for my 22-250 using hornady 50g v-max i ended up with an overall length being 16 thou off the lands, after a few years of use now i have worn 24thou off the lands.
In use mainly sub 200 yds foxing, most of what i point at is a clean kill, but i have had some shots that have missed, and playing back the recorded shot the crosshairs were on kill zone, its not just the first shot out of a cold clean barrel either it happens randomly (flier).
Do i need to adjust the seating depth back to 16 thou to where the lands are 'now' -------if that makes sense ---------what does everyone else do as the rifle lands erode ?

Thanks Dave (warbucks)

Agree with tackb. It either shoots, or it doesn't.

However, I had experience with one rifle, where erosion caused excessive pressure, where the bullet was dragging on the rough eroded surface.

A bit of polishing, and an adjusted load, saw pressure reduced, and velocity maintained.

 

[Malxwal]

Advice I got, don't recall from where; load 22-250 to SAMMI spec COAL and don't worry about lands. It certainly worked for me, although it was a standard T3, not a fast twist or custom barrel.

 

[Warbucks]

What scope are you using? - I’ve got an Alpex 4K LRF & have had some similarly confusing misses using that this winter… playback & cross hairs bang on but have missed - one shot confirmed low as I found cut belly hair where the muntjac had been stood, several where the shot has hit but was significantly lower than the cross hairs were on the target & one where I am certain the shot should have landed forward of the front shoulder on a quartering animal but missed it completely so have to assume it went wide in front.

This is on a rifle that otherwise is a tack driver!

I’m planning on shooting some targets with it over the summer as I’ve only started using it on the does this winter. I want to see if it does throw shots & whether there is a common factor to it. I’ve already done some comparisons between the drop the ballistic app calculates & my real world data for it & the error is nowhere near big enough to explain the missed/low shots - it’s around an inch at 500 yards & all these shots have been in the 200-300 yard range.

Yes scope is a Alpex 4k lrf.
Stock screws, weaver rail and scope mounts and moderator all tight.
I've never had 100% confidence, in this 22-250 when using Drone Pro or c50 but a cuple of years ago i re fitted the Hawke sidewinder to check grouping and it was doing 1/2" groups at 100 yds off shooting bags.
I've been around n/v about 20 years now and had problem with more than one dedicated n/v scope (Drone Pro ect). -------until i got it fitted with the kevgun mount.

Dave (warbucks)

 

[Selous]

When i developed a load for my 22-250 using hornady 50g v-max i ended up with an overall length being 16 thou off the lands, after a few years of use now i have worn 24thou off the lands.
In use mainly sub 200 yds foxing, most of what i point at is a clean kill, but i have had some shots that have missed, and playing back the recorded shot the crosshairs were on kill zone, its not just the first shot out of a cold clean barrel either it happens randomly (flier).
Do i need to adjust the seating depth back to 16 thou to where the lands are 'now' -------if that makes sense ---------what does everyone else do as the rifle lands erode ?

Thanks Dave (warbucks)

What are the groups on paper like both then and now?

 

[Border]

Interesting video which makes a lot of sense.....

 

[Karhumies]

depends on the load. usually it doesnt matter mutch, some bullets seem to care more than others. but most of The time i wouldnt bother worrying about it. I found that for most bullets its more about barrel time than distance to lands.

my Vepr RPK is very finicky but its not about the jump itself

67.0mm 2mm jump


66.85mm 2.15mm jump

 

[DVS1]

Interesting video which makes a lot of sense.....

THIS

 

[KimE]

Some people are making a living on manufacturing new barrels.

 

[Bowland blades]

my old 243 still shot very well with what i later found was missing rifling for inches not a few thousands , If they shoot- just shoot them ! . Btw it was re-barrelled years ago into a 260 .

 

[Karhumies]

my old 243 still shot very well with what i later found was missing rifling for inches not a few thousands , If they shoot- just shoot them ! . Btw it was re-barrelled years ago into a 260 .

on the flipside, my vixen in 222 is worn a few mm and throws constant fliers. So exactly that, dont overanalise what a pleasant afternoon with a box of ammo can tell you without words

 

[MarinePMI]

When i developed a load for my 22-250 using hornady 50g v-max i ended up with an overall length being 16 thou off the lands, after a few years of use now i have worn 24thou off the lands.
In use mainly sub 200 yds foxing, most of what i point at is a clean kill, but i have had some shots that have missed, and playing back the recorded shot the crosshairs were on kill zone, its not just the first shot out of a cold clean barrel either it happens randomly (flier).
Do i need to adjust the seating depth back to 16 thou to where the lands are 'now' -------if that makes sense ---------what does everyone else do as the rifle lands erode ?

Thanks Dave (warbucks)

Hmmm...tackb has a very valid and pragmatic response. At this point, you need to find out where the bullet performs best (wrt distance from the lands). It may have one...it may not ever have one again.

That being said, this is why many now use the Satterlee method to develop a load. While it may not be the most accurate load achievable (when the barrel is new), the whole idea is to a find a node with a generous bullet jump, so that the load remains consistently accurate, regardless of throat erosion, over the life of the barrel. Until it doesn't shoot accurately anymore (which is usually when the barrel is well and truly shot out).

People spend far too much time chasing the last 0.1" of accuracy thinking it will make a difference in the field. When in fact all they're doing is shortening the life of their barrel for no real good (or measurable) reason.

Anyways, not exactly the answer to the question asked, but worth (IMHO) mentioning.

 

[jthyttin]

I’m planning on shooting some targets with it over the summer as I’ve only started using it on the does this winter. I want to see if it does throw shots & whether there is a common factor to it.

If there's any lag between what happens in real world and what you see through the scope, you need to move the rifle around and take quick shots to reveal this. Having the rifle on supports and squeezing a shot is not going to do it.

To OP, some people chase lands and some do not.

Whatever you do, make sure the base your findings on adequate number of shots if you want to have valid results. Best would be to set up a target with number of POAs and fire only one shot per POA. Match the POA to suit the scope, and ideally you wouldn't be able to see the bullet holes while shooting. You might want to spread the test over several range visits, firing only 3-5 shots per visit. Make some notes on every shot (before seeing the target), keep the targets and notes and only draw some conclusions when you have reasonable number of shots downrange.

 

[Rhudson89]

Interesting video which makes a lot of sense.....

Just follow this... I have

 

[Bowland blades]

on the flipside, my vixen in 222 is worn a few mm and throws constant fliers. So exactly that, dont overanalise what a pleasant afternoon with a box of ammo can tell you without words

Don't write it off just yet ! often you can get the gun that displays such symptoms has copper fouling that has got well imbedded in the cracks / rough surfaces of the bore . JB paste and a few good soaks of Boretech Cu+2 copper remover and a stiff plastic brush can remove this . Sure the cracks and erosion is still there but more often as not the Accuracy will come back , at least for a few hunts .
Sometimes the soak period might need to be overnight barrel plugged . The aim is clean until the CU+2 comes out with very little blue on the patches or better none at all . Some do need to lay down some fresh crud , so don't assume its not worked without some range time .
Barrels are none fathable though but the above really has and does bring many rifles back on song , strange how some just wont with very little erosion and others will and run on fine another few seasons ( if you become more diligent)

 

[Bowland blades]

Just follow this... I have

There is a fair old swing away from this now , Eric Cortina USA team f-class coach has a lot to say about the subject

 

[Rhudson89]

Worked for me... each group is a 3 thou move away from my maximum.

 

[Greenmist]

If it affects accuracy, yes.