Ban Driven Grouse debate

[hedge hunter]

You could take a photo of a pile of dead birds in say for instance China and put it on social media, the people who are of that mind set will believe what they are told eg from a big fat estate shoot, toffs swilling port,

Steve you are right it can and is done like that but some people need too stop looking at this with rose tinted glasses.there is wrong doers in the shooting mass. Wrong uns in the working dog world but mostly the rest are decent people

 

[EssBee]

Unless you are prepared to do something useful e.g. lobby your MPs, support your shooting organisation, become more politically aware, develop meaningful argument and debate to counter those misguided souls, you can scream , shout and bemoan then just roll over and submit to whatever fate befalls our shooting.

 

[baguio]

Steve you are right it can and is done like that but some people need too stop looking at this with rose tinted glasses.there is wrong doers in the shooting mass. Wrong uns in the working dog world but mostly the rest are decent people

Come on though. You started saying that the birds were dumped like rubbish. You can't just say it if you have never seen it. Perhaps there are wrong uns but just perhaps there aren't? I've yet to see a photo published by Packman's lot that couldn't be ripped apart in 10 seconds if it was ever submitted as evidence. Most of them have been photo shopped so badly that it's possible that some Doris off TOWIE could have produced it along side making her waist half look half it's actual size whilst putting a bend in the door frame at the same time!
Make no mistake, I can see the worst in anyone but I usually like to see some evidence before passing it off to some bloke down the pub as reality.

 

[Dunwaters]

From the debate it wouldn't appear that Grouse shooting is vulnerable. Only 2 speakers had anything bad to say about it and they didn't provide evidence to support their views that HHs were being slaughtered all over the place.

To deliberately misquote the utterly revolting Gerry, “ they havn’t gone away you know”.
They’ll be back, we need support and acceptance of what we do based on science and economics, but Packham’s gang are streets ahead of us when it comes to spreading their message and fund raising.

 

[baguio]

To deliberately misquote the utterly revolting Gerry, “ they havn’t gone away you know”.
They’ll be back, we need support and acceptance of what we do based on science and economics, but Packham’s gang are streets ahead of us when it comes to spreading their message and fund raising.

They are but what are we supposed to do? We can't lower ourselves to organise fund raising based on lies. Perhaps someone needs to organise a private prosecution against him for telling lies. No idea how that would work though?

 

[Dunwaters]

Come on though. You started saying that the birds were dumped like rubbish. You can't just say it if you have never seen it. Perhaps there are wrong uns but just perhaps there aren't? I've yet to see a photo published by Packman's lot that couldn't be ripped apart in 10 seconds if it was ever submitted as evidence. Most of them have been photo shopped so badly that it's possible that some Doris off TOWIE could have produced it along side making her waist half look half it's actual size whilst putting a bend in the door frame at the same time!
Make no mistake, I can see the worst in anyone but I usually like to see some evidence before passing it off to some bloke down the pub as reality.

I‘ve not seen it personally ( I do very little driven shooting) but several friends told me that they had and more than one shoot was involved. Why would they lie?
There was literally no market for the birds and they were already on the ground.
The guys concerned were paying guns and were told to fill their boots, shoot what you can, we want them all gone.
COVID an all that. Under the circumstances the lack of photographic evidence is understandable.

 

[Dunwaters]

They are but what are we supposed to do? We can't lower ourselves to organise fund raising based on lies. Perhaps someone needs to organise a private prosecution against him for telling lies. No idea how that would work though?

In my case I’m going to duck back down behind the parapet and hope no one notices what I’m doing.
This generation doesn’t take being told that they’re wrong very well, people have lost their jobs and been subjected to death threats for failing to toe the party line, the police response in most cases has been less than comforting, strange times for someone brought up to believe in freedom of speech.

 

[Dunwaters]

Given that’s its a contentious subject, this thread has managed to maintain a very civilised tone.
So far.....

 

[baguio]

I‘ve not seen it personally ( I do very little driven shooting) but several friends told me that they had and more than one shoot was involved. Why would they lie?
There was literally no market for the birds and they were already on the ground.
The guys concerned were paying guns and were told to fill their boots, shoot what you can, we want them all gone.
COVID an all that. Under the circumstances the lack of photographic evidence is understandable.

Which I get. However, these were very strange times. Game had been reared and normally there would have been a market of some sort. I'm lead to believe that deer were left on the hills because there was no market too!

 

[bogtrotter]

[QUOTE I'm lead to believe that deer were left on the hills because there was no market too!
[/QUOTE]

In very rare instances , and that caused a lot of controversy .
The market has been poor and a few have chosen to not let the dealers have them for what was offered and decided to
leave them , the price will be what the market can support and while not ideal I would rather get a poor price than nothing at all.
IMO a case of cutting of your nose to spite your face

 

[Dunwaters]

[QUOTE I'm lead to believe that deer were left on the hills because there was no market too!

In very rare instances , and that caused a lot of controversy .
The market has been poor and a few have chosen to not let the dealers have them for what was offered and decided to
leave them , the price will be what the market can support and while not ideal I would rather get a poor price than nothing at all.
IMO a case of cutting of your nose to spite your face
[/QUOTE]

I can’t say that I haven’t walked away in the past and I would do it again if I had to.
Sometimes carcass recovery is just not worth it.
A lot depends on where you’re operating.
With low venison prices I can see it become more attractive in remote, hard to access areas.It takes me longer to drag an animal back to the car than to find another one most days.

 

[hedge hunter]

Come on though. You started saying that the birds were dumped like rubbish. You can't just say it if you have never seen it. Perhaps there are wrong uns but just perhaps there aren't? I've yet to see a photo published by Packman's lot that couldn't be ripped apart in 10 seconds if it was ever submitted as evidence. Most of them have been photo shopped so badly that it's possible that some Doris off TOWIE could have produced it along side making her waist half look half it's actual size whilst putting a bend in the door frame at the same time!
Make no mistake, I can see the worst in anyone but I usually like to see some evidence before passing it off to some bloke down

Come on though. You started saying that the birds were dumped like rubbish. You can't just say it if you have never seen it. Perhaps there are wrong uns but just perhaps there aren't? I've yet to see a photo published by Packman's lot that couldn't be ripped apart in 10 seconds if it was ever submitted as evidence. Most of them have been photo shopped so badly that it's possible that some Doris off TOWIE could have produced it along side making her waist half look half it's actual size whilst putting a bend in the door frame at the same time!
Make no mistake, I can see the worst in anyone but I usually like to see some evidence before passing it off to some bloke down the pub as reality.

just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not happening. And I'm not the kind of person too believe every thing iv been told.all I can say is time will tell

 

[baguio]

just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not happening. And I'm not the kind of person too believe every thing iv been told.all I can say is time will tell

You could say that about just about anything? There must be quite a few things that haven't been seen because they haven't happened, don't you think?

 

[hedge hunter]

Given that’s its a contentious subject, this thread has managed to maintain a very

You could say that about just about anything? There must be quite a few things that haven't been seen because they haven't happened, don't you think?

Who knows fella.lets see wot the future holds

 

[Rake Aboot]

Which I get. However, these were very strange times. Game had been reared and normally there would have been a market of some sort. I'm lead to believe that deer were left on the hills because there was no market too!

Deer shooting is pest control. The fact it's a pest that can be eaten is a bonus. Those deer were left on the hill because they were culled to protect trees. Same as a pile of crows.

 

[baguio]

Deer shooting is pest control. The fact it's a pest that can be eaten is a bonus. Those deer were left on the hill because they were culled to protect trees. Same as a pile of crows.

I'm not criticising. However I suspect that they're also shot so that they don't starve to death during the winter and not just to protect the trees?

 

[Rake Aboot]

I never thought you were criticising, sorry if it came over that way.

It's just something that gets forgotten in these discussions. Every other type of animal shooting is pest control (maybe some wildfowling but even then )

Driven bird is the only animal shooting that isn't.

 

[Apthorpe]

Steve you are right it can and is done like that but some people need too stop looking at this with rose tinted glasses.there is wrong doers in the shooting mass. Wrong uns in the working dog world but mostly the rest are decent people

This is both true and irrelevant. There are criminals everywhere....even in the police force. That is no reason to ban anything. If we ban grouse shooting because of wrong doers, then we ought to ban everything. It's ridiculous.

 

[bogtrotter]

Deer shooting is pest control. The fact it's a pest that can be eaten is a bonus. Those deer were left on the hill because they were culled to protect trees. Same as a pile of crows.

You have stated this more than once in your posts and it is not strictly true Deer shooting can be pest control but not
necessarily so.
There are Highland estates comprising of hundreds of thousands of acres where the deer are managed for
Sporting purposes and to provide estate income.
Nothing to do with pest control.

 

[landkeeper]

I never thought you were criticising, sorry if it came over that way.

It's just something that gets forgotten in these discussions. Every other type of animal shooting is pest control (maybe some wildfowling but even then )

Driven bird is the only animal shooting that isn't.

Flight ponds , flighted geese ,walked up game, snipe shooting ,woodcock shooting im sure there are plenty more