Bankruptcy!

[Essexsussex]

Assuming that there is now a difference in the ultimate goals of the individual parties is a very dated idea

The fundamental issues in this country are:
the fear of losing Global businesses,
the obsession with class,
the historical tax rates


Businesses continue to stay in the UK as it is a Central Timezone and English speaking
If you don't tax them for being here then there is no point them staying
Vodafone, HP, Amazon, eBay, Starbucks, etc etc
Barclays, HSBC, RBS, I could go on
If they all paid their share of the corporation tax for this year only all at once we would be out of deficit overnight


Stop assuming your choice of party is aligned with some brainwashed idea that this party is better for me as I am a shop steward.
Every party that has ever been in power has screwed someone, and not restricted to a particular grade of worker, homeowner, landowner, business owner.
Labour screwed up as much as the Conservatives did before them
Selling off the UK Gold reserves at a 25 year low price point....genius
mishandling numerous financial debacles, Equitable Life, RBS, Northern Rock....
Just because your Dad voted Labour/Conservative doesn't mean you should

Income tax rates screw low paid people
when you are earning £120 an extra 5p in the pound on earnings over the £100, 120 or 150k mark doesn't bother you!
You already have a deficit each month and can save money.
You can afford a decent accountant who will not only pay for themselves but save you more
Income tax rate thresholds are stuck in the 1980s
Free up the thresholds and tax the upper end, Economists the world over will tell you increasing high rate tax brackets and corporation tax INCREASES taxable income.



As are Council tax rates

Take Edinburgh for example:
http://www.lothian-vjb.gov.uk/ctax_charges.html

[TABLE="width: 619"]
[TR]
[TH="width: 61, align: left"]Band[/TH]
[TH="width: 166, align: left"]Value[/TH]
[TH="width: 94, align: left"]Council Tax[/TH]
[TH="width: 76, align: left"]Water[/TH]
[TH="width: 97, align: left"]Waste Water[/TH]
[TH="width: 92, align: left"]Total[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EDF5FF"]
[TD="align: center"]A[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]Up to £27,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£802.71[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£132.84[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£154.20[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,089.75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]B[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]£27,001 to £35,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£936.50[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£154.98[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£179.90[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,271.38[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EDF5FF"]
[TD="align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]£35,001 to £45,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,070.28[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£177.12[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£205.60[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,453.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]D[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]£45,001 to £58,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,204.07[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£199.26[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£231.30[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,634.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EDF5FF"]
[TD="align: center"]E[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]£58,001 to £80,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,582.01[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£243.54[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£282.70[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£2,108.25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]£80,001 to £106,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£1,956.61[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£287.82[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£334.10[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£2,578.53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EDF5FF"]
[TD="align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]£106,001 to £212,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£2,357.97[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£332.10[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£385.50[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£3,075.57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]H[/TD]
[TD="class: leftAlign"]Over £212,000[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£2,949.97[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£398.52[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£462.60[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: center"]£3,811.09[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


House prices in Edinburgh. Property values | PrimeLocation

The current average value in Edinburgh in May 2017 is £271,480. This has increased 1.39% from February 2017. Terraced properties sold for a current average value of £354,986 and semi-detached properties valued £346,913. In the past year property prices in Edinburgh have increased 0.97%

AVERAGE! The Highest Government Council Tax rate is based on a house valuation £60,000 LOWER than the AVERAGE!!

People in 3 bedroom average priced houses in the £270k bracket are paying the same Council Tax as people living in £1,000,000 to £2,000,000 properties!!

I completely agree with most of the above, other than (as a point of order only), tax banding for council tax relies on house valuations undertaken in 1991. So your average house value of 270k would have been worth say 50k in 1991 and therefore be in band D. Odd but true...

 

[Pedro]

Very interesting thread. To bring it around to what we (maybe) all agree on and certainly what will directly affect us about who is in government, perhaps we should consider which lot will be best for stalking and field sports in general.

I'm really not too sure of anything that might be in any manifestos. The Conservatives say they will have another vote on fox hunting. But they've said that before and didn't find time. I'm personally not too fussed about it anyway. Labour don't seem to be saying anything much about it, but being the party of the city dwellers, that can only be a good thing. As for the Lib Dems, if they get in (fat chance), between having referendums about things we have already had referendums about, they want to legalise cannabis. Alternative crop for farmers? Not sure walking through a field of hemp with a roll-up will aid straight shooting.

 

[User00035]

As for the Lib Dems, if they get in (fat chance), between having referendums about things we have already had referendums about, they want to legalise cannabis. Alternative crop for farmers? Not sure walking through a field of hemp with a roll-up will aid straight shooting.

So in addition to night hawks, pikies and assorted thieves and no-goods there'll be dope-heads wandering around the fields at night.

 

[Chasey]

A PHD had nothing to do with being a nurse. PhDs shouldnt be funded by the tax payer. If you want a ohad then it should be industry funded by a sponsor or you find it yourself.

I also know plenty of trianee nurses.....non of whom work for free. Poor career/life choices shouldn't expect funding from the public purse.

A PHD is the minimum requirement for the clinical research job she's aiming for

Her main topic of research is Autisum at the moment

And taking on your opinion, people who take on poor career life choices in your opinion do not deserve free health care then? If they had the well paid jobs they would have private healthcare wouldn't they

ANd I am surprised you consider clinical research into things like cancer, heart deseise and mental health to be "poor career choices"?

Should all intelegent people just work in the finance and legal profesions ?

 

[finnbear270]

If people on here were asked (Like in those daft interviews), If you were a fish which would you be?, Chasey, I reckon you would be a Pike, you don't half bite!

 

[Chasey]

Chasey

I admire your daughters for going into the medical profession and wish them every success, but it's interesting to look at the full cost of training a doctor.

According to the BMA (https://www.bma.org.uk/-/media/Files/.../pressbriefing_cost_of_training_doctors.docx) the total investment rises from £269,527 for an F1 to £564,112 for a Consultant.

Of course the student pays tuition fees, accommodation and training costs but that is still a huge level of investment from the taxpayer. Bear in mind, too, that many of those same taxpayers you're very ready to penalise already pay for private healthcare, so perhaps aren't quite such a drain on the NHS as some might think.

Doctor's salaries range from £26,614 when starting to between £76,761 and £103,490 for Consultants. GP's pay varies between £56,525 to £85,298. Of course if they then go and do private work their salaries can be significantly more.

I have no problem with that. Doctors and other health care professionals do a fantastic job and deserve to be paid at a level that rewards their efforts.

What I do have a problem with is a National Health Service that now apparently has to provide every possible service to every possible individual all free at the point of use. We hear all the time about new drugs, treatments, etc that have to be added, but little about drugs or treatments being removed.

Labour has pledged to fund an additional £37bn into the NHS, as though throwing money at it is the answer. It is not. We have a growing and aging population, but no amount of funding can let us provide everything free. This year the NHS budget is £122.6bn - Heaven knows what the correct amount should be but increasing it simply "on principal" clearly isn't the answer.

The NHS wasn't designed to work like that, yet it seems impossible to have any rational discussions about what our health service should really be providing without claims of crisis and privatisation.

What I don't understand with this Marxist manifesto is where all the money will ever come from if we are not actually encouraging businesses and individuals to generate revenue in the first place?

I am in complete agreement. Throwing money at most things is a shot term fix there has to be restructuraing at the core

My argument against Mays answer is cuts cuts cuts and no restructureing is a worse choice.

If you like ill get my daughter to sumerise her theasis on the cost to society of NOT offering mental health care.

The cost of the health care to the tax payer is X and the cost of leaving people to their own devices in society is often X time 10

Preventuion is often a LOT cheaper than the cure.

 

[Chasey]

Ahhh! The wonderful party "Manifesto"......

Lets just pull some figures out of the air....as we really don't know how much we will raise in extra tax or how much we will have to borrow to further drive this country into debt or into the debt of China, Uae or Saudi......promise the moon on a stick and Hey Presto we are the party for you!

Min wage £10...Sounds great but when all your other staff want differential and parity someone is going to have to pay for it!
Scrap tuition fees....Fantastic!! But where exactly are the high education establishments going to get their income from? Government? Oh...ok..lets borrow some more money then.
The NHS..our sacred cow....God Bless Her and all who are treated in her! It is an incredibly wasteful and inefficient system beholden to large corporations who suck money out of the system like there is no tomorrow..... Wake up and smell the reform......We cant afford a one stop care service for all unless we have 60-70% tax rates FOR ALL. NHS dentistry is a joke....it is driven by big corporations backed by private equity firms who don't give a fig about the nations dental health...just their balance sheets!
Defence......Let's scrap Trident and buy everyone a white flag or better a red one with a hammer and sickle on it.
Legalise cannabis......Great! Lets all get so stoned that we don't even notice society falling apart around us and our kids not being able to either afford or find a home!

What we need is a benevolent dictatorship....LKY seemed to do something right in Singapore!

Anyway......I'll vote Monster Raving Looney (again) and fetch me coat.......

Min wage £10.00? That's going to hurt me but sadly ill admit the pay gap between being on welfair and doing low paid work is so small most just sit on the welfair ( I have witnessed this first hand for years) So we nead to make jobs better paid than staying at home. I struggle with the maths on the cost to manufacturing and export and the by product of companies switching to more automation rather than low paid staff so Ill openly admit its a puzzle I have no clear answer for



Scrapping tuition fees?

OK do you agree we cant compeet on a blue coller labour basis with the rst of the world? If so then we need to invest in our best to stay at the top in engernearing science etc etc.

SO IMHO clamp down and say only students with min ABB can get free uni

Only selected courses which are felt to be beneficial to the country get free tuition


NHS? investment (labour) freeing up importing trained staff with asurances of support in the UK (Labour) or cuts (Con artists) Privitation and a two tear service (Con artists) that's our choice


Trident? Widly felt to be stone age tec that is unlikely to be effective against modern countermeasures. Cost of upgrading and maintaining is now so massive its affecting the quality of our other defence systems which would actualy be used in times of conflict. Intelegance has taken over from "I have the biggest rock" and its is just common sense that nucular war is not good for business. "Indiscriminate Mutualy assured destruction" just doesent role of the toung like it used too. So modern focus is on non proliferation and reduction on the necular arsenal to a level which would keep idiots like N Korea from chucking rocks at us.

Legalise cannabis?

Who gives a toss really? It was leagal till the 60s and widly prescribed to people with minor conditions like period pains? Main reason it was banned was the drug driving issue

Now Alcahol in comparison cost the tax payer and the healthcare industry billions and causes 10,000+ deaths a year, so if you want to ban anything, lets ban alcohol and stop being all snooty about pot.



Yes LKY decided rape was a minor offence but oral sex is worth a 20 year prison sentence


A benign dictatorship is possably the only way forward if we are to be successful

As Winstan Churchill said. "The biggest argument against democracy is a 5 min conversation with the average voter"

The alternative of course is global government levelling the playing field we all play on.

But of we cant even tolerate the EU we obviously haven't developed enough as a species to consider cooperation on a global scale.

So dictator is probably our best bet in the short term

 

[scubadog]

Min wage £10.00? That's going to hurt me but sadly ill admit the pay gap between being on welfair and doing low paid work is so small most just sit on the welfair ( I have witnessed this first hand for years) So we nead to make jobs better paid than staying at home. I struggle with the maths on the cost to manufacturing and export and the by product of companies switching to more automation rather than low paid staff so Ill openly admit its a puzzle I have no clear answer for



Scrapping tuition fees?

OK do you agree we cant compeet on a blue coller labour basis with the rst of the world? If so then we need to invest in our best to stay at the top in engernearing science etc etc.

SO IMHO clamp down and say only students with min ABB can get free uni

Only selected courses which are felt to be beneficial to the country get free tuition


NHS? investment (labour) freeing up importing trained staff with asurances of support in the UK (Labour) or cuts (Con artists) Privitation and a two tear service (Con artists) that's our choice


Trident? Widly felt to be stone age tec that is unlikely to be effective against modern countermeasures. Cost of upgrading and maintaining is now so massive its affecting the quality of our other defence systems which would actualy be used in times of conflict. Intelegance has taken over from "I have the biggest rock" and its is just common sense that nucular war is not good for business. "Indiscriminate Mutualy assured destruction" just doesent role of the toung like it used too. So modern focus is on non proliferation and reduction on the necular arsenal to a level which would keep idiots like N Korea from chucking rocks at us.

Legalise cannabis?

Who gives a toss really? It was leagal till the 60s and widly prescribed to people with minor conditions like period pains? Main reason it was banned was the drug driving issue

Now Alcahol in comparison cost the tax payer and the healthcare industry billions and causes 10,000+ deaths a year, so if you want to ban anything, lets ban alcohol and stop being all snooty about pot.



Yes LKY decided rape was a minor offence but oral sex is worth a 20 year prison sentence


A benign dictatorship is possably the only way forward if we are to be successful

As Winstan Churchill said. "The biggest argument against democracy is a 5 min conversation with the average voter"

The alternative of course is global government levelling the playing field we all play on.

But of we cant even tolerate the EU we obviously haven't developed enough as a species to consider cooperation on a global scale.

So dictator is probably our best bet in the short term

What utter crap....by leaving the EU we are actually able to cooperate with the rest of the world.

Whilst prisoned inside we were not allowed!

 

[scubadog]

A PHD is the minimum requirement for the clinical research job she's aiming for

Her main topic of research is Autisum at the moment

And taking on your opinion, people who take on poor career life choices in your opinion do not deserve free health care then? If they had the well paid jobs they would have private healthcare wouldn't they

ANd I am surprised you consider clinical research into things like cancer, heart deseise and mental health to be "poor career choices"?

Should all intelegent people just work in the finance and legal profesions ?

All PhD students I have met (and I meet plenty through my own education path) are funded by a sponsor.

Phds should not be funded by the tax payer!

My reference to poor life choice is the fact that your daughter is the first person I have ever met or heard about (out of thousands) of PhD students that I have worked with that works for free.....everyone else else gets sponsored, a salary and paid university fees. Hence why she must have made a poor choice somewhere!

 

[scubadog]

I hope everyone remembers this in a few years when you don't get what you were expecting from a Tory government.

You mean getting out of the EU. .....oh don't worry, we will remember.

Isn't corbyn now promising to pay the EU the £100bn exit fee whilst trying to remain as in as he can!

Luckily, the scruffy **** has no chance!

 

[enfieldspares]

Tory Manifesto now published.

Return of the 'death tax' (originally proposed by Labour in 2010) to pay for care for the elderly, means tested Winter fuel allowance and the end of the pension 'triple lock' means, I forecast, that May's promise that pensions 'will go up' means they'll probably go up but by less than inflation.

Be careful what you wish for on 8 June. If you are a pensioner that's saved for your old age or have a parent that's a pensioner rattling around in a big old empty house that they own you might, just, be advised to take a good close look at the Tory Manifesto and how it will affect you if you're in that category.

It makes grim reading.

 

[finnbear270]

Life is hard, then you die .... nothing is as sure as death and taxes.

 

[big ears]

What utter crap....by leaving the EU we are actually able to cooperate with the rest of the world.

Whilst prisoned inside we were not allowed!

It's the cost of leaving that will cripple us and ruin are economy so that we won't be able to trade.

 

[enfieldspares]

Finnbear that's Benjamin Franklin that is. Nothing is certain in life except for death and taxes.

 

[finnbear270]

It's the cost of leaving that will cripple us and ruin are economy so that we won't be able to trade.

Au contraire mon ami, It's the cost of (ever rising), being in, that threatens to be the end of UK.

 

[big ears]

Tory Manifesto now published.

Return of the 'death tax' (originally proposed by Labour in 2010) to pay for care for the elderly, means tested Winter fuel allowance and the end of the pension 'triple lock' means, I forecast, that May's promise that pensions 'will go up' means they'll probably go up but by less than inflation.

Be careful what you wish for on 8 June. If you are a pensioner that's saved for you're old age or have a parent that's a pensioner rattling around in a big old empty house that they own you might, just, be advised to take a good close look at the Tory Manifesto and how it will affect you if you're in that category.

It makes grim reading.

grim reading indeed.

As you say say bad news for pensioners.

Stopping free lunches to infants so that the money can go to education. So the poorest members of our society who benefit from their children having a free meal loose this. On top of this the children loose out as in some cases this is the only good meal they get each day. So penalising the most vulnerable and poor. Good Tory ideals upheld

extra money for the NHS but how much? Does this mean that the £270m cuts in healthcare budget for cornwall this year will be reversed and the proposed similar cut the year after rescinded? I think not. As always with the Tories it's give with one hand and take more with the other.

As I've said all along vote a landslide Tory government it will be bad for a huge number. Clip their wings with a tiny majority (or even better with a minority) and make them fight for their changes we stand a chance.

dont be selfish on June 8th think about more than Brexit.

 

[big ears]

Au contraire mon ami, It's the cost of (ever rising), being in, that threatens to be the end of UK.

Oh yes the £350m a week that's coming to the NHS I forgot about that......

 

[JTO]

Be careful what you wish for on 8 June. If you are a pensioner that's saved for your old age or have a parent that's a pensioner rattling around in a big old empty house that they own you might, just, be advised to take a good close look at the Tory Manifesto and how it will affect you if you're in that category.

At the moment, everything over c£23,000 is taken for your care in old age, that threshold will rise to £100,000. If you are over 60 and living in your parent's residence, at the moment, the house is safe from Social Services grasping hands.

 

[Druid]

Tory Manifesto now published.

Return of the 'death tax' (originally proposed by Labour in 2010) to pay for care for the elderly, means tested Winter fuel allowance and the end of the pension 'triple lock' means, I forecast, that May's promise that pensions 'will go up' means they'll probably go up but by less than inflation.

Be careful what you wish for on 8 June. If you are a pensioner that's saved for your old age or have a parent that's a pensioner rattling around in a big old empty house that they own you might, just, be advised to take a good close look at the Tory Manifesto and how it will affect you if you're in that category.

It makes grim reading.

Dunno, my generation who are a couple or so decades away from the possibility of retirement are already being constantly told that there will be bugger all provision left for us from the state when we get to that age so we need to provide for ourselves. closely followed by government making it increasingly hard for us to do so.

Personally I don't see why all of society doesnt have to share the burden, pensioners included. My mother has more expendable income now as a pensioner than she has ever had, buying the grey vote with unsustainable promises of 'Tripe locks' is just as bad as any other political bribery.

 

[finnbear270]

Oh yes the £350m a week that's coming to the NHS I forgot about that......

I'll suffer their pie crust promise over labour's actual I.O.U's in the till drawer.