Barnes LRX chest shot deer

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Interesting, do we know what Fox intended this bullet for?

Because the SD with a copper non frangible 139 gr bullet 6.5 should penetration wise be akin to what? - a 180 or more grn old school lead cup and core bullet perhaps?
If so, what european game animal needs the sort of penetration ? Especially if it comes at the cost of lowering the TV, lessning the chance of full expansion (further increasing the chance of pencil/smaller wound channels) ?

The heaviest lead 6.5 projectile i have ever heard off is around 160 gr, so why this need to go heavy with the coppers, if the result is SDs exceeeding even the heaviest lead option for big and/or sturdy game, in the past?
This is an honest question btw, as i'd really like to know and learn

I have a blatant hatred of light copper bullets, I always go heavier.

My copper load of 7x57 is 150gn barnes ttsx, 270 it was 130gn ttsx, 3006 165gn lapua naturalis

Never light and never fast, always under 3000fps

 

[Scipio]

I have a blatant hatred of light copper bullets, I always go heavier.

My copper load of 7x57 is 150gn barnes ttsx, 270 it was 130gn ttsx, 3006 165gn lapua naturalis

Never light and never fast, always under 3000fps

first and foremost, thank you for answering, @Norfolk Deer Search

But if i may ask, why these specific preferences? Is it due to carcass damage if the bullets are going much faster? And if so, was is your expected shot distances and placements, and what terminal velocites are you looking for?

And why go 150 in the 7mm, but 130 in the 270 and 165 in 30 cal? That makes the 7mm bullet signficantly more BC and SD heavy vs the other two, not to speak of very long for caliber bullets, i'd assume. but maybe you have a special reason for that?
And unless you download a 270 130 grn, isnt it going 3100-3150 fps in 22-24 inch barrel?

I am sorry if this flurry of follow questions seem overwhelming, that wasnot my intention at all. So please do answer in your time, and leisure .-) - i am just honestly very curious to understand the different reasons and povs we have for loading (especially copper bullets) as we do, and especially from people with a lot of experience, like yourself

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

first and foremost, thank you for answering, @Norfolk Deer Search

But if i may ask, why these specific preferences? Is it due to carcass damage if the bullets are going much faster? And if so, was is your expected shot distances and placements, and what terminal velocites are you looking for?

And why go 150 in the 7mm, but 130 in the 270 and 165 in 30 cal? That makes the 7mm bullet signficantly more BC and SD heavy vs the other two, not to speak of very long for caliber bullets, i'd assume. but maybe you have a special reason for that?
And unless you download a 270 130 grn, isnt it going 3100-3150 fps in 22-24 inch barrel?

I am sorry if this flurry of follow questions seem overwhelming, that wasnot my intention at all. So please do answer in your time, and leisure .-) - i am just honestly very curious to understand the different reasons and povs we have for loading (especially copper bullets) as we do, and especially from people with a lot of experience, like yourself

big bullets, sensible speeds less damage, I’ve shot copper over 15 years, back then loading data was limited at best, I was buying Barnes bullets from the US from cliffs Gunsmithing (the older members of the SD will remember!) as they were not readily available here in the UK and that point.

that’s what I’ve found works best.

 

[Heym SR20]

big bullets, sensible speeds less damage, I’ve shot copper over 15 years, back then loading data was limited at best, I was buying Barnes bullets from the US from cliffs Gunsmithing (the older members of the SD will remember!) as they were not readily available here in the UK and that point.

that’s what I’ve found works best.

I would agree with this. Certainly my experience with 7mm is the bigger bullets knock them over. Little bullets such as the 80gn from a 243 or 50gn from a 223 also kill but give a few runners and leave a lot of bloodshot bruising.

Red deer are big tough animals and the organs are much bigger and quite a bit further apart. So a bullet through a red deer’s heart will take put the heart but the shockwave (4 to 6” in diameter) may not have impact if any of the Central Nervous System.

Same point of impact on a Roe or Muntjac and the whole chest cavity is impacted.

Go back a few years on SD - endless discussions on deer running after being shot and bullet failures.

 

[25 Sharps]

Unfortunately my location means very limited choice of powders. The 22" barrel doesn't help either. My current copper load is a compressed load of N555. This gave a decent 1000 yard showing at Bisley with the same 22" stalking rifle, albeit with a 143gn target bullet.
ATB

That is the issue, double base ball or flake powder means you can fit more in the case and use a slow enough powder to not spike the pressure.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Go back a few years on SD - endless discussions on deer running after being shot and bullet failures.

The bullets we’re too small driven too fast and penciled through like a knitting needle, the only thing that’s gonna create is a runner with very little or no blood to follow!

I’m still as a loss to where that idea came from?’

 

[long_range_rob]

Ha, fair enough.

Was a genuine enquiry of interest, that expansion is great but obviously that close velocity is still up there, if they did that or similar at 250 yards from a .308 it would be impressive and I’d switch immediately!

If I ever shoot anything at 250+ that isn’t a paper target I’ll let you know.

 

[Scipio]

The bullets we’re too small driven too fast and penciled through like a knitting needle, the only thing that’s gonna create is a runner with very little or no blood to follow!

I’m still as a loss to where that idea came from?’

I hear you @Norfolk Deer Search and again please do expand based on your real life experiences as to the why, which after all is what theory should be judged against.
but isn't smaller stout, but faster going, projectile vs a heavier,but equally stout and slower going projectile of the same type, not more likely to expand more and thus be less likely to "pencil" though a given impact area?

As I understand the Very Field experienced Nathan Foster, this is also one of his core points, ie that when going with a very stout projectile, going quick and light for caliber+ perhaps considering bone as impact areas is the most opportune?

 

[Scipio]

If I ever shoot anything at 250+ that isn’t a paper target I’ll let you know.

Will you consider changing your user name to Close_quarter_Robert then ? ;-D

 

[Selous]

I've just worked up a barely legal load using 110gn copper in my 6.5x55, 22" barrel. Struggling to get a MV much above 2750 fps. I'd be interested to know what powders you're having success with, thanks.

RS60 is excellent in the 6.5x55. So is N555

 

[25 Sharps]

Unfortunately my location means very limited choice of powders. The 22" barrel doesn't help either. My current copper load is a compressed load of N555. This gave a decent 1000 yard showing at Bisley with the same 22" stalking rifle, albeit with a 143gn target bullet.
ATB

If you get down to Bisley you can buy RS powders there.

 

[vitalspark]

If you get down to Bisley you can buy RS powders there.

Unfortunately that's over 700 miles plus nearly three hours on a ferry . I'll certainly try and find a supplier in Scotland if my N160 doesn't improve things. I'm going to order some Fox too and try and work up a load with a different projectile.
Cheers

 

[25 Sharps]

Unfortunately that's over 700 miles plus nearly three hours on a ferry . I'll certainly try and find a supplier in Scotland if my N160 doesn't improve things. I'm going to order some Fox too and try and work up a load with a different projectile.
Cheers

That’s a bit of a trek. I did have a look at the Viht Skan data, top load for N160 made the magic number but was for a longer barrel. You may get lucky.