BASC - CONTRACT TERMS

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enfieldspares

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In another thread I was challenged as to who I worked for. My reponse was that I previously worked for a company that like BASC was regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.

So reminded of the interventions offered to consumers and customers by the FCA I contacted them and had a interesting telephone conversation. Had I not been reminded of my past connection through the company I previously worked for and the role of the FCA I'd not have remembered such a thing.

Anyway I have been told by the Financial Conduct Authority that a person if they think that they are subject to an "unfair contract term" in relation to a product of service may ask that the FCA's own dedicated Unfair Contract Terms Unit look at the matter.

They, the FCA sent me the relevant link where indeed it says that "They consider every single report of an unfair or unclear term referred to us. We appreciate the time and effort spent by consumers in identifying potentially unfair contract terms in consumer contracts. Past reports of unfair contract terms have led us to: Ask firms to stop using and/or change the terms; Publish some actions; such as undertakings from firms about unfair term; Obtain redress for consumers."

Redress would be usually financial redress such as a payment to the consumer of customer by the firm they have complained about to the FCA Unfair Contract Terms Unit.

The the link the FCA sent me in that email is here:


It is a fill in when prompted process and asks for the person using the service to fill in the various boxes as they proceed through the form.

I have written thus on my submission:

What is the name of the firm?
BASC - FCA #311937

What is the title of the contract?
Terms and Conditions - "Rules and Constitution of the Association"

If possible, please send us a copy of the contract.
Can be downloaded by clicking on "Constitution" in this link: Membership Terms and Conditions | The British Association for Shooting and Conservation

Please give details of the exact term(s) in the contract you believe is unfair.
3. Membership. Section (k) as it applies to section (j). That if a member dies, or resigns and therefore they cease (section (j)) to be a Member of the Association that under section (k) that says that " member shall on ceasing to be a member of this Association for WHATEVER CAUSE forfeit his share
and the sum paid up".

Please explain why you think the term(s) is unfair.
Essentially the Member as they cease to enjoy any benefit on ceasing to be a Member there is no cost to BASC that continues to be incurred. Therefore as many will have joined for an insurance and/or advice then only actual "time on risk" should be allowed to be kept back by the Association from the money paid up front by the member.

Please explain how you or the person you represent have been affected by the term(s).
On 31 July 2020 BASC ceased to offer as a feature and benefit of membership "legal expenses cover". That is cover that if a Member's Gun Licence was revoked by the police authorities, or the police authorities declined to renew that Gun Licence that BASC would if there was merit take that police authority to Court and AS ALLOWED BY THE RELEVANT LAW IN s44 OF THE FIREAMS ACT ( Firearms Act 1968 ) have a Judge decide the matter. The decision of BASC to rescind that feature and benefit of membership ( Important notice regarding firearms licensing legal expenses insurance | The British Association for Shooting and Conservation ) was made without consultation of the Members or membership.

Please give details of any discussions you or the person you represent have had with the firm about this matter.
The persons affected have asked that as this feature and benefit was a major reason...for some the only or sole reason for joining...that they be allowed to cancel and that they be pro-rata refunded the remaining term of months left on their membership. They report that this has been refused to them by BASC. These Members argue that as the "product" the bought is now not the "product" that they are now entitled to make use of that the contract has been altered and therefore they are entitled to a refund.

That's essentially the process that you could use. The form also asks for any correspondence between yourself and BASC to be uploaded if you have any and then will ask for your details so that the FCA can, if they need to, contact you back.

I hope that BASC Members who have cancelled or who are thinking of cancelling now that the legal expenses insurance feature and benefit of membership has been rescinded might find it helpful to use to seek the advice of the FCA? And I'm glad having been directly reminded of this in a response to me in another thread to share what the FCA can offer to consumers and customers.
 
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I know your advice is born of a sense of frustration based on experience and not BASC- bashing as the "infirm of mind" conveniently call it.

I too cannot understand how members who have paid for a benefit and received only part of it wouldn't want ;
1, an apology;
2, their contribution returned to them, unused.
BASC clearly thought (or half thought) this was a benefit - otherwise why offer it, and without detailed analysis of the implications. Equally, why terminate it short of the start of the game season when renewals tend to occur (certainly with shoots) ?

In any other situation, people take goods back and argue about "merchantable quality" and the Sale of Goods Act to recover money spent on something which does not reflect the value they expect. Perhaps that's the reason - the value they expect is less than the value they perceive they have lost.
You are right to point out this breach and the means to achieve redress IMHO.
Maybe seeking proper redress will prevent similar "cherries" being offered by anyone in future, without sufficient thought.
Regards,
Kes
 
I know your advice is born of a sense of frustration based on experience and not BASC- bashing as the "infirm of mind" conveniently call it.

I too cannot understand how members who have paid for a benefit and received only part of it wouldn't want ;
1, an apology;
2, their contribution returned to them, unused.
BASC clearly thought (or half thought) this was a benefit - otherwise why offer it, and without detailed analysis of the implications. Equally, why terminate it short of the start of the game season when renewals tend to occur (certainly with shoots) ?

In any other situation, people take goods back and argue about "merchantable quality" and the Sale of Goods Act to recover money spent on something which does not reflect the value they expect. Perhaps that's the reason - the value they expect is less than the value they perceive they have lost.
You are right to point out this breach and the means to achieve redress IMHO.
Maybe seeking proper redress will prevent similar "cherries" being offered by anyone in future, without sufficient thought.
Regards,
Kes
Aye up kes is back talking about BASC for a change 😆 thought I'd read previously "on every BASC thread he's posted on at some point or another" that he wasn't going to comment about them any more....

Whoops sorry.... Maybe I'm just "infirm of mind"
 
Aye up kes is back talking about BASC for a change 😆 thought I'd read previously "on every BASC thread he's posted on at some point or another" that he wasn't going to comment about them any more....

Whoops sorry.... Maybe I'm just "infirm of mind"
No just repetitious and a bit boring. Ask our orgs to stop doing daft things and I wont post about them - I think we have also been here before but thanks for your irrelevant (to the OP) post. You have nothing to do on Sunday morning ?
 
No just repetitious and a bit boring. Ask our orgs to stop doing daft things and I wont post about them - I think we have also been here before but thanks for your irrelevant (to the OP) post. You have nothing to do on Sunday morning ?
Done loads this morning kes but it's afternoon now "and when I posted too" now who's infirm of mind 😆
 
Kes, you have, in the past, said that you are no longer going to post on BASC threads, after having been accused (rightly or wrongly) of having an agenda, axe to grind ... however you want to call it.
Then, you keep on posting on BASC threads.

Considering you go on and on about BASC's dishonesty, lack of truthfulness, etc., it seems a more than a bit hypocritical that you don't hold yourself to the same standards as you do them
 
@jimmy milnes , if you want a % of his posts mentioning BASC it's sitting currently at 87%.

KES SAID....then spat the council elections dummy.



Precisely why I have been a critic for a long time now. It generally isn't the staff at working level, there may be one or two - It has been the management level arrogance and problems and dear god, the COUNCIL has presided over all this.
The people on the Council should be ashamed of how little has been done to steer this organisation effectively. Wildfowlers v game shooters v stalkers which is why that MUST not be replicated on the ground.
Show us what you are made of BASC before you deserve our trust. I'm with NGO until the worm turns.
Hope lies with the new CEO and his tenacity and clear strategic thinking - so let us see some of that.
If that doesnt happen within a year, BASC is dead for me and I will never comment again - since one does not speak ill of the dead.
 
Kes, you have, in the past, said that you are no longer going to post on BASC threads, after having been accused (rightly or wrongly) of having an agenda, axe to grind ... however you want to call it.
Then, you keep on posting on BASC threads.

Considering you go on and on about BASC's dishonesty, lack of truthfulness, etc., it seems a more than a bit hypocritical that you don't hold yourself to the same standards as you do them

Was this before or after the lead issue emerged, as I suggested it would ?
Before or after the long list of BASC 'adverts' which have recently surfaced here and elsewhere.
I have no real axe to grind except that I like shootings representation to be respected, keen to support shooters of all types, erudite and acknowledged out of respect not unjustified self-respect. There are times when I think comments are pointless and stop specific posts on quite a number of subjects.
Then there are a series of new posts and my frustration re emerges, for example the news item about only a very small percentage killing raptors is (seemingly) not really a huge problem, but I am taking the tablets for it.

Feel free to press the 'ignore' button or perhaps make some personal assessments about whether e.g. you would want anyone to give the impression that 100 raptor killers in your loved sport is seemingly a vanishingly small number to condemn us all with.
I dont like the way we are represented by articles like that which could be better framed so, yes I do post - its a free country so please do - ignore me.
I am currently 'ignoring' eight members who consequently have no effect on me - and it does not affect their right to post what they like; as it no longer offends me.
 
Was this before or after the lead issue emerged, as I suggested it would ?
Before or after the long list of BASC 'adverts' which have recently surfaced here and elsewhere.
I have no real axe to grind except that I like shootings representation to be respected, keen to support shooters of all types, erudite and acknowledged out of respect not unjustified self-respect. There are times when I think comments are pointless and stop specific posts on quite a number of subjects.
Then there are a series of new posts and my frustration re emerges, for example the news item about only a very small percentage killing raptors is (seemingly) not really a huge problem, but I am taking the tablets for it.

Feel free to press the 'ignore' button or perhaps make some personal assessments about whether e.g. you would want anyone to give the impression that 100 raptor killers in your loved sport is seemingly a vanishingly small number to condemn us all with.
I dont like the way we are represented by articles like that which could be better framed so, yes I do post - its a free country so please do - ignore me.
I am currently 'ignoring' eight members who consequently have no effect on me - and it does not affect their right to post what they like; as it no longer offends me.

3 letters
first letter sounds like HAY

A?
yes

Second letter sounds like hex

X?

yes

Third letter sounds like easy

E?

yes

 
In another thread I was challenged as to who I worked for. My reponse was that I previously worked for a company that like BASC was regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.

So reminded of the interventions offered to consumers and customers by the FCA I contacted them and had a interesting telephone conversation. Had I not been reminded of my past connection through the company I previously worked for and the role of the FCA I'd not have remembered such a thing.

Anyway I have been told by the Financial Conduct Authority that a person if they think that they are subject to an "unfair contract term" in relation to a product of service may ask that the FCA's own dedicated Unfair Contract Terms Unit look at the matter.

They, the FCA sent me the relevant link where indeed it says that "They consider every single report of an unfair or unclear term referred to us. We appreciate the time and effort spent by consumers in identifying potentially unfair contract terms in consumer contracts. Past reports of unfair contract terms have led us to: Ask firms to stop using and/or change the terms; Publish some actions; such as undertakings from firms about unfair term; Obtain redress for consumers."

Redress would be usually financial redress such as a payment to the consumer of customer by the firm they have complained about to the FCA Unfair Contract Terms Unit.

The the link the FCA sent me in that email is here:


It is a fill in when prompted process and asks for the person using the service to fill in the various boxes as they proceed through the form.

I have written thus on my submission:

What is the name of the firm?
BASC - FCA #311937

What is the title of the contract?
Terms and Conditions - "Rules and Constitution of the Association"

If possible, please send us a copy of the contract.
Can be downloaded by clicking on "Constitution" in this link: Membership Terms and Conditions | The British Association for Shooting and Conservation

Please give details of the exact term(s) in the contract you believe is unfair.
3. Membership. Section (k) as it applies to section (j). That if a member dies, or resigns and therefore they cease (section (j)) to be a Member of the Association that under section (k) that says that " member shall on ceasing to be a member of this Association for WHATEVER CAUSE forfeit his share
and the sum paid up".

Please explain why you think the term(s) is unfair.
Essentially the Member as they cease to enjoy any benefit on ceasing to be a Member there is no cost to BASC that continues to be incurred. Therefore as many will have joined for an insurance and/or advice then only actual "time on risk" should be allowed to be kept back by the Association from the money paid up front by the member.

Please explain how you or the person you represent have been affected by the term(s).
On 31 July 2020 BASC ceased to offer as a feature and benefit of membership "legal expenses cover". That is cover that if a Member's Gun Licence was revoked by the police authorities, or the police authorities declined to renew that Gun Licence that BASC would if there was merit take that police authority to Court and AS ALLOWED BY THE RELEVANT LAW IN s44 OF THE FIREAMS ACT ( Firearms Act 1968 ) have a Judge decide the matter. The decision of BASC to rescind that feature and benefit of membership ( Important notice regarding firearms licensing legal expenses insurance | The British Association for Shooting and Conservation ) was made without consultation of the Members or membership.

Please give details of any discussions you or the person you represent have had with the firm about this matter.
The persons affected have asked that as this feature and benefit was a major reason...for some the only or sole reason for joining...that they be allowed to cancel and that they be pro-rata refunded the remaining term of months left on their membership. They report that this has been refused to them by BASC. These Members argue that as the "product" the bought is now not the "product" that they are now entitled to make use of that the contract has been altered and therefore they are entitled to a refund.

That's essentially the process that you could use. The form also asks for any correspondence between yourself and BASC to be uploaded if you have any and then will ask for your details so that the FCA can, if they need to, contact you back.

I hope that BASC Members who have cancelled or who are thinking of cancelling now that the legal expenses insurance feature and benefit of membership has been rescinded might find it helpful to use to seek the advice of the FCA? And I'm glad having been directly reminded of this in a response to me in another thread to share what the FCA can offer to consumers and customers.

Information about my Association's insurance cover is here:


Information about your Association's insurance cover is here:

 
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