BASC Council - changing the tone

[Steyer 6.5]

Not sure if I should post this and not wanting to pee on anyone's chips.


But before kes or anyone else for that matter got my vote is be wanting to know
slightly more about his interests hobbies and wot shooting sports they do, which is reported in the basc magazine anyway come election time.

I've never met kes or know him, but I honestly can't remember/noticed kes posting in anything apart from bashing basc.
I know absolutely nothing about him other than he had some fairly serious basc paronia.
Up till last week basc where still the devil incarnate, to be honest there have been times I have almost been worried for ur mental health.
Some threads recently I almost expected a basc induced breakdown, fortunately never happened.
If 1st few committee meetings don't go ur way how will everyone react? Basc has just got over from some staff/committee turmoil do we really need more
I do think some expect too much, never has there been a time when politicians/rule makers listen to scientific reasoned argument less than now, which is very worrying.

Kes I do agree with much of wot u say althou not so extreme but I do find it hard to comprehend how someone can have such strong vocal views then do a 180 so suddenly.
How many brexiteers would like another emainer/may coming in to sort brexit, as it does seem like 1 off the loudest critics is now going to fix it.

Also I'd want who ever is elected on to be able to benefit the committee, sometimes it can be and u just have to compromise slightly in short term.
How well would david and conor like working with kes after the way been treated on here by some

I'm not wanting to put a downer on anything and things DO need to change massively and quickly at basc but I would like more info before I stick my name to any masts and u can make an informed descion on which candidate suits my views best.
That said they're really does need to be a wholesale change in wots going on at basc

CB

absolutely bang on.

 

[sikamalc]

Good luck with that one. I think your going to need it.

 

[jimbo1984]

Not sure if I should post this and not wanting to pee on anyone's chips.


But before kes or anyone else for that matter got my vote is be wanting to know
slightly more about his interests hobbies and wot shooting sports they do, which is reported in the basc magazine anyway come election time.

I've never met kes or know him, but I honestly can't remember/noticed kes posting in anything apart from bashing basc.
I know absolutely nothing about him other than he had some fairly serious basc paronia.
Up till last week basc where still the devil incarnate, to be honest there have been times I have almost been worried for ur mental health.
Some threads recently I almost expected a basc induced breakdown, fortunately never happened.
If 1st few committee meetings don't go ur way how will everyone react? Basc has just got over from some staff/committee turmoil do we really need more
I do think some expect too much, never has there been a time when politicians/rule makers listen to scientific reasoned argument less than now, which is very worrying.

Kes I do agree with much of wot u say althou not so extreme but I do find it hard to comprehend how someone can have such strong vocal views then do a 180 so suddenly.
How many brexiteers would like another emainer/may coming in to sort brexit, as it does seem like 1 off the loudest critics is now going to fix it.

Also I'd want who ever is elected on to be able to benefit the committee, sometimes it can be and u just have to compromise slightly in short term.
How well would david and conor like working with kes after the way been treated on here by some

I'm not wanting to put a downer on anything and things DO need to change massively and quickly at basc but I would like more info before I stick my name to any masts and u can make an informed descion on which candidate suits my views best.
That said they're really does need to be a wholesale change in wots going on at basc

I must ask ..... define basc bashing ? Do you mean helpful honesty ?

 

[kes]

Carl,
Thanks for your note but Tim.243 and Countryboy, clearly have issues.

To suggest I am doing a 180 on my attitude to BASC, shows a rather too revealing lack of understanding (or prejudice) of what the purpose of this exercise is.
Tim.243's doubt that anyone but him has done the fieldwork is as arrogant as he suggests I have been about BASC.
Countryboy has worries for my mental health, so not really a great deal of support there then.

I have to say that as a front for the hopes and aspirations of such members, I have my doubts.
Kalahari tried to get on to the Council for the same purpose, although with rather less mental issues and not so obviously a 180 degree person. Maybe he's your man ?
Yes, I am very passionate and extremely tenacious about how I suggest we have been let down over the years, the untruths, arrogance and fudging but to attract a comment of doubts about my mental health is just a shade too far. I wont represent someone who thinks I have done a 180, and refuses to see that all I want is for the 'Voice of Shooting' to be, just that and effective for all shooting sports.
I have been shooting since I was 11, from rabbits (and anything else) to game, to woodpigeons on friends farm, to rabbits, crows, driven game and game on my smallholding and stalking from the Derbyshire peak to down here in S Wales. I have shot duck from Shropshire to Cheshire to Scotland to Wales. Driven days at Drumlanrig e.g.. I have also been a part time keeper and member of DIY shoots.
I have managed more people than Tim has seen in a crowd and have no problem with my mental health (according to my Doc), then again Countryboy would probably know better.

To everyone with issues about me -
I will only publish more stuff about myself as required to do the job you have collectively asked me to do. I will not take any abuse.
If (collectively) you want me to represent you, understand why I am doing this or find someone else - better still, do it yourselves.
Let me be clear about this for the one time I intend to say it - I have tried to change BASC by legitimate criticism (correct me if I am wrong) and have agreed to try in a new way, as the CEO from BASC and a good number of members on here have asked me to.
If my fellow shooters dont trust me to do what I have already done, then lets forget it, I work on trust and integrity and doing what I say I will do.

Make your collective minds up, because, as of this moment - I am thinking of withdrawing and leaving everything as it was for those with doubts about me.

 

[kenbro]

Carl,
Thanks for your note but Tim.243 and Countryboy, clearly have issues.

To suggest I am doing a 180 on my attitude to BASC, shows a rather too revealing lack of understanding (or prejudice) of what the purpose of this exercise is.
Tim.243's doubt that anyone but him has done the fieldwork is as arrogant as he suggests I have been about BASC.
Countryboy has worries for my mental health, so not really a great deal of support there then.

I have to say that as a front for the hopes and aspirations of such members, I have my doubts.
Kalahari tried to get on to the Council for the same purpose, although with rather less mental issues and not so obviously a 180 degree person. Maybe he's your man ?
Yes, I am very passionate and extremely tenacious about how I suggest we have been let down over the years, the untruths, arrogance and fudging but to attract a comment of doubts about my mental health is just a shade too far. I wont represent someone who thinks I have done a 180, and refuses to see that all I want is for the 'Voice of Shooting' to be, just that and effective for all shooting sports.
I have been shooting since I was 11, from rabbits (and anything else) to game, to woodpigeons on friends farm, to rabbits, crows, driven game and game on my smallholding and stalking from the Derbyshire peak to down here in S Wales. I have shot duck from Shropshire to Cheshire to Scotland to Wales. Driven days at Drumlanrig e.g.. I have also been a part time keeper and member of DIY shoots.
I have managed more people than Tim has seen in a crowd and have no problem with my mental health (according to my Doc), then again Countryboy would probably know better.

To everyone with issues about me -
I will only publish more stuff about myself as required to do the job you have collectively asked me to do. I will not take any abuse.
If (collectively) you want me to represent you, understand why I am doing this or find someone else - better still, do it yourselves.
Let me be clear about this for the one time I intend to say it - I have tried to change BASC by legitimate criticism (correct me if I am wrong) and have agreed to try in a new way, as the CEO from BASC and a good number of members on here have asked me to.
If my fellow shooters dont trust me to do what I have already done, then lets forget it, I work on trust and integrity and doing what I say I will do.

Make your collective minds up, because, as of this moment - I am thinking of withdrawing and leaving everything as it was for those with doubts about me.

Hear hear.
Regards,Ken.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

Thanks for that Kes. To be perfectly honest,I would follow your instincts in the last sentence. It is a poison chalice you do not need.
jmho. Let basc suffer the consequences of their folly. If they change,we can too. ATB.john.

 

[Bigcal]

u have my support and by the sounds of it many more kes! there will always be the minority who sit at home throwing stones!

 

[kes]

Thanks for that Kes. To be perfectly honest,I would follow your instincts in the last sentence. It is a poison chalice you do not need.
jmho. Let basc suffer the consequences of their folly. If they change,we can too. ATB.john.

John,
It is a poisoned chalice, you are more likely to be right than wrong in what you say.
BASC dont like me and might refuse membership or kick me off. One Council member would have to make themselves unpopular or garner support from those who haven't been seeking change to date which would be embarassing and resented by many, most on Council have been there for a long while and 'buy-in' to the current ethos and also want change like a hole in the head.
Connor O'Gorman doesn't exactly like me now after our last exchnages on here and he's BASC's Political Officer ( I think he's a bit impolitic but that's a moot point)- he must feel he's a target - he's right in that but only insofar as what is being done is effective and worth the effort. All I will be able to do is seek reports ask difficult questions, not act - that's the CEO's function and if he's the man he must be he wont brook too much negative 'interference' so he has to be won over against the odds. All in all its a rather bleak picture which is why what we do not like, continues. I am a firm believer in put up or shut up and know that any man who is right and keeps on coming will win through.
As you say though - easier to walk away, we'll see what happens in the next few days. I am thinking of writing to the CEO and asking, if I applied would my membership be accepted - then I would know whether its worth the effort. Thanks for your support of the 'group'.

 

[Brno2e]

John,
It is a poisoned chalice, you are more likely to be right than wrong in what you say.
BASC dont like me and might refuse membership or kick me off. One Council member would have to make themselves unpopular or garner support from those who haven't been seeking change to date which would be embarassing and resented by many, most on Council have been there for a long while and 'buy-in' to the current ethos and also want change like a hole in the head.
Connor O'Gorman doesn't exactly like me now after our last exchnages on here and he's BASC's Political Officer ( I think he's a bit impolitic but that's a moot point)- he must feel he's a target - he's right in that but only insofar as what is being done is effective and worth the effort. All I will be able to do is seek reports ask difficult questions, not act - that's the CEO's function and if he's the man he must be he wont brook too much negative 'interference' so he has to be won over against the odds. All in all its a rather bleak picture which is why what we do not like, continues. I am a firm believer in put up or shut up and know that any man who is right and keeps on coming will win through.
As you say though - easier to walk away, we'll see what happens in the next few days. I am thinking of writing to the CEO and asking, if I applied would my membership be accepted - then I would know whether its worth the effort. Thanks for your support of the 'group'.

Hi Kes, I will back you and rejoin BASC after a very long time though it hurts me to say it. Despite all of the the ongoing criticism of BASC nothing has changed and the only way to achieve progress is from within, as such I take my hat of to you and wish you well and my thanks for taking on such a difficult task.

Regards, Martyn.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

Good luck to you Kes, you are a braver man than I. Maybe the CEO will see the positive aspects of having a member who questions the status quo, rather than yes men, who put all and sundry through on the nod. Power to your elbow for change..

 

[Basil H]

Let's get it right. Conor is "Head of Policy and Campaigns".

 

[paul o']

Wonder if BASC are reading this post and as said I wonder if the doors will be flug open OR shall it be

 

[kes]

Let's get it right. Conor is "Head of Policy and Campaigns".

How, just how, is that relevant to my reference, does that not involve politics, sorry I dont have the correct title for everyone at BASC ?
Tim obviously thinks it is relevant, so I have my doubts about it.
You two just have to think and ask yourselves is BASC the best it can be for me or would I like to see continuous improvement. If you answer is you cant improve BASC then even just after the single issue of medicals, I have to feel that less than mediocrity in the most important issues is the most you will ever aspire to. Not my approach I'm afraid.

 

[kes]

Wonder if BASC are reading this post and as said I wonder if the doors will be flug open OR shall it be

I've been talking to a few people recently about exactly that and the general consensus appears to be yes they will let you in, wear you down and rely on you taking the personal benefits of being connected to BASC. (And those are ?)Many, apparently have tried to swim against the tide I am told but have drowned in the attempt. Several people have mention John Swift's Damascus road conversion as an example of 'integrity'.

 

[countrryboy]

Cheers Carl I did try to write it as sympathetically as I could and thought this would happen so didput off posting for a few days.
Apologies if i offended anyone

Kes I never asked anything that u wouldn't publish in ur manifesto In the basc magazine.

As for ur mental health wot I meant is life is Farr too short to go on the way u do about basc. U really need to take a chill pill at times.
Really is more important things

I'll leave u all too this thread now, but surely they're must be some room for debate.
Or have we all just to fall in behind.

I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot u'd be askng questions too
U've never came across on here as someone who doesn't make his feelings known.

Wot it really needs is 2 3 or even 4 members on the committee all wanting basc to change to recognise it's full potential.

Good luck with wotever u decide
All the best.

 

[CarlW]

Cheers Carl I did try to write it as sympathetically as I could and thought this would happen so didput off posting for a few days.
Apologies if i offended anyone

Kes I never asked anything that u wouldn't publish in ur manifesto In the basc magazine.

As for ur mental health wot I meant is life is Farr too short to go on the way u do about basc. U really need to take a chill pill at times.
Really is more important things

I'll leave u all too this thread now, but surely they're must be some room for debate.
Or have we all just to fall in behind.

I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot u'd be askng questions too
U've never came across on here as someone who doesn't make his feelings known.

Wot it really needs is 2 3 or even 4 members on the committee all wanting basc to change to recognise it's full potential.

Good luck with wotever u decide
All the best.

Hey @countrryboy ,

I think it is important that we all continue to challenge one another and to shape and develop our view iteratively. Shooting is a broad church, and we should see this as a strength rather than as a weakness.

Your post was (as your posts always are) a great example of a challenging and supportive friend who improves our collective position by causing those reading to look at a problem from a different angle.

The powerful insights that I took from your post (and also that of @Tim.243 ) are that:

1. if one intends to sit on the BASC Council, no matter how determined one is to change that organisation, one must cease to treat BASC as 'the enemy'; and
2. we will face many frustrations in our quest to improve our largest shooting organisation; nonetheless, we must keep faith and guard our tongues during the failures, in order that we might enjoy the occasional successes as they arise.

I am in no position to speak on his behalf, but am confident that Kes has also heard your advice, even if it still currently feels a little raw. He is putting himself on the line by standing for council and is no doubt somewhat hyper-aware of the debates and inevitable conflicts that lie ahead. For that he has my - and I am sure your own - respect.

@kes : if and when you are ready to commit, it would seem that now is the time to rejoin BASC and to reveal yourself fully to the SD community in order that we might begin the process of making you famous!

Kindest regards,

Carl

 

[kenbro]

Cheers Carl I did try to write it as sympathetically as I could and thought this would happen so didput off posting for a few days.
Apologies if i offended anyone

Kes I never asked anything that u wouldn't publish in ur manifesto In the basc magazine.

As for ur mental health wot I meant is life is Farr too short to go on the way u do about basc. U really need to take a chill pill at times.
Really is more important things

I'll leave u all too this thread now, but surely they're must be some room for debate.
Or have we all just to fall in behind.

I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot u'd be askng questions too
U've never came across on here as someone who doesn't make his feelings known.

Wot it really needs is 2 3 or even 4 members on the committee all wanting basc to change to recognise it's full potential.

Good luck with wotever u decide
All the best.

Don’t think you’ll garner too many ‘Thumbs up’ for this post.
Ken.

 

[kes]

Carl, I have said before this - you are too nice a person.

I am not as forgiving as you.
Countryboy realised his post would cause the problem before he posted it, and yet he went ahead and posted it anyway.
Not just a 'concern' but three attempts to suggest I was three halfpence short of a shilling. What a lovely world we would live in if everyone went around suggesting others had mental health problems but didn't really mean it and wanted to retract it afterwards ? Countryboy can count himself lucky you argued on his behalf, albeit somewhat tentatively for you.
All the retractions of negative posts on this topic are due entirely to the number of supporters in the group, not that what was said was impolitic.

So, sorry I'm not buying the apology.
If those in the group want compromise - I'm sorry I wont oblige simply because I cant.
If I go through with this (its in the balance after this misplaced 'concern'), I will act as the group wishes but will not compromise on the key focus which is to shake BASC up from the inside and seek the change it has, hitherto been unable or unwilling to make.
Whatever I tell you subsequently about myself, its best you all know this now - I usually take unwarranted or unreasonable criticism badly and I will always be the arbiter, as someone recently found out - but in a nice way.
I like to try to be pleasant and win arguments with intellect and reason - when faced with stupidity I'm afraid I tend to be a bit of a bastard and certainly unforgiving.
Still want me to do this ?

Someone else can "drink from this particular cup" if they think I seek personal anything other than to achieve my expectation of the best and uncompromising representation of all shooters from BASC.

 

[CarlW]

Carl, I have said before this - you are too nice a person.

I am not as forgiving as you.
Countryboy realised his post would cause the problem before he posted it, and yet he went ahead and posted it anyway.
Not just a 'concern' but three attempts to suggest I was three halfpence short of a shilling. What a lovely world we would live in if everyone went around suggesting others had mental health problems but didn't really mean it and wanted to retract it afterwards ? Countryboy can count himself lucky you argued on his behalf, albeit somewhat tentatively for you.
All the retractions of negative posts on this topic are due entirely to the number of supporters in the group, not that what was said was impolitic.

So, sorry I'm not buying the apology.
If those in the group want compromise - I'm sorry I wont oblige simply because I cant.
If I go through with this (its in the balance after this misplaced 'concern'), I will act as the group wishes but will not compromise on the key focus which is to shake BASC up from the inside and seek the change it has, hitherto been unable or unwilling to make.
Whatever I tell you subsequently about myself, its best you all know this now - I usually take unwarranted or unreasonable criticism badly and I will always be the arbiter, as someone recently found out - but in a nice way.
I like to try to be pleasant and win arguments with intellect and reason - when faced with stupidity I'm afraid I tend to be a bit of a bastard and certainly unforgiving.
Still want me to do this ?

Someone else can "drink from this particular cup" if they think I seek personal anything other than to achieve my expectation of the best and uncompromising representation of all shooters from BASC.

You sound like the right person for the job, Kes. You will make council meetings much less comfortable, which is exactly what we need.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[jimmy milnes]

OK kes I do support you if you go for it because someone needs to make the difference and I like your bluntness as its a kin to myself, however I do have to say with the greatest respect that if a couple of members on here don't agree with you or say something you don't agree with "no matter what it is" and you look to spit the idea of running to council out of the window,
A.. What do you think folks are going to say to you when/ if you were to be appointed..
B.. How do you think the guys from BASC felt when they tried to come on here and give accounts of things "no matter you feelings on them they tried to inform an engage" only to be ridiculed by many. Not sticking up for BASC but for the people themselves..
I hope you do run as said above as things do need to change.
Regards
Jimmy