BASC expels members for wildlife crime and firearms offences

[kes]

Since the shooting community must establish credibility for self - policing, particularly firearms and killing BOP (both of which are crimes), I very much support this action.
The consequences are not, however, and should not be stated as merely insurance related, that is a very red herring.
Insurance would be readily available elsewhere and this statement undermines the action taken by BASC.

In my opinion BASC should have stressed " the shooting community will not tolerate illegal behaviour, therefore these former members have been removed from life membership and any future membership of shooting organisations and we will be contacting all the other organisations to ensure any future membership is denied to them" and follow that with ,"both should rightly become 'prohibited individuals' under firearms law and therefore no longer be permitted to own or use firearms.

I have said for a long time BASC should openly do this and publicise it so, although I believe their emphasis is rather lost, and the full opportunity therefore squandered by the statement above, it is unquestionably (in my view) the right thing to do for shooting.

I am a regular critic of BASC but when it does something positive they will get and deserve my support. (Although I doubt it means that much to them !)

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Since the shooting community must establish credibility for self - policing, particularly firearms and killing BOP (both of which are crimes), I very much support this action.
The consequences are not, however, and should not be stated as merely insurance related, that is a very red herring.
Insurance would be readily available elsewhere and this statement undermines the action taken by BASC.

In my opinion BASC should have stressed " the shooting community will not tolerate illegal behaviour, therefore these former members have been removed from life membership and any future membership of shooting organisations and we will be contacting all the other organisations to ensure any future membership is denied to them" and follow that with ,"both should rightly become 'prohibited individuals' under firearms law and therefore no longer be permitted to own or use firearms.

I have said for a long time BASC should openly do this and publicise it so, although I believe their emphasis is rather lost, and the full opportunity therefore squandered by the statement above, it is unquestionably (in my view) the right thing to do for shooting.

I am a regular critic of BASC but when it does something positive they will get and deserve my support. (Although I doubt it means that much to them !)

I hear what you are saying. I have said it before on SD forum and I will say it again - the continued illegal killing of prey is unacceptable and it has taken a long time for the problem to be accepted and recognised and the perpetrators and those that aid and abet them will be weeded out.

When he was director of the NARGC (Republic of Ireland), Des Crofton stated in 2013, in response to a raptor persecution case that “The shooting of birds of prey, who are all protected, can only be condemned in the strongest possible terms. The person who shot this bird is not fit to have a firearm. I would urge the authorities, if the person is identified, that they are prosecuted, have their firearm licence revoked and never allowed have one again. This is inexcusable. If I ever found one of my members was responsible for something like this, he would be out of the association so fast his feet wouldn’t touch the ground“.

 

[Liveonce]

Conor, well said, I sat in a pigeon hide to day with buzzards overhead a magnificent sight to watch and more common now then it used to be.

 

[andyk]

@Conor O'Gorman was the chap from Suffolk also expelled for killing the buzzard?

I see he wasn’t found guilty but presume BASC may go on the balance of probabilities for disciplinary matters?

 

[timbrayford]

I hear what you are saying. I have said it before on SD forum and I will say it again - the continued illegal killing of prey is unacceptable and it has taken a long time for the problem to be accepted and recognised and the perpetrators and those that aid and abet them will be weeded out.

When he was director of the NARGC (Republic of Ireland), Des Crofton stated in 2013, in response to a raptor persecution case that “The shooting of birds of prey, who are all protected, can only be condemned in the strongest possible terms. The person who shot this bird is not fit to have a firearm. I would urge the authorities, if the person is identified, that they are prosecuted, have their firearm licence revoked and never allowed have one again. This is inexcusable. If I ever found one of my members was responsible for something like this, he would be out of the association so fast his feet wouldn’t touch the ground“.

I live on the edge of a prestigious shoot on the Isle of Wight. BOPs present include short eared owls, barn owls, little owls, sea eagles, buzzards, marsh harriers, kestrels, sparrow hawks, peregrine falcons and red kites. The obvious conclusion is that they all benefit in some way from land managed for driven game shooting.

 

[Roebuck]

Conor, well said, I sat in a pigeon hide to day with buzzards overhead a magnificent sight to watch and more common now then it used to be.

Not as when on some my shooting areas you see dozens!That is not normal it is a result of over releasing and feeding!Wild predators do not need feeding!It causes an imbalance which nature is not responsible for !

 

[nun_hunter]

Well done BASC for your response.

I'm more amazed at the severity of the punishments handed out though as you'd get less for causing a serious ABH these days! I'm not saying the punishment wasbt justified but there is a serious disparity (and always has been) across the spectrum of offences.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman was the chap from Suffolk also expelled for killing the buzzard?

I see he wasn’t found guilty but presume BASC may go on the balance of probabilities for disciplinary matters?

I hope you will understand that I am unable get drawn into the details of the cases beyond the information provided in the OP.

On a more positive note BASC has committed to contributing £75,000 towards Natural England’s hen harrier recovery work over the next three years, via its Legacy Fund.

Three annual payments of £25,000 will aid Natural England’s objectives of winter roost monitoring, support and education around diversionary feeding, and the southern reintroduction of the species.

The three-year agreement follows initial support of £10,000 towards the funding of two Natural England field staff to undertake winter monitoring.

This new funding will support Natural England in its work to proactively liaise with land managers on immediate protection and longer-term conservation measures. It will also enable experienced Natural England staff to provide practical advice and reassurance to land managers on how to successfully implement diversionary feeding.

Part of the funding will support a programme of stakeholder engagement around the southern reintroduction site, particularly with shoot managers and gamekeepers.

BASC commits to hen harrier recovery plan

BASC has committed to contributing £75,000 towards Natural England’s hen harrier recovery work over the next three years.

basc.org.uk

 

[Mike L]

I hope you will understand that I am unable get drawn into the details of the cases beyond the information provided in the OP.

On a more positive note BASC has committed to contributing £75,000 towards Natural England’s hen harrier recovery work over the next three years, via its Legacy Fund.

Three annual payments of £25,000 will aid Natural England’s objectives of winter roost monitoring, support and education around diversionary feeding, and the southern reintroduction of the species.

The three-year agreement follows initial support of £10,000 towards the funding of two Natural England field staff to undertake winter monitoring.

This new funding will support Natural England in its work to proactively liaise with land managers on immediate protection and longer-term conservation measures. It will also enable experienced Natural England staff to provide practical advice and reassurance to land managers on how to successfully implement diversionary feeding.

Part of the funding will support a programme of stakeholder engagement around the southern reintroduction site, particularly with shoot managers and gamekeepers.

BASC commits to hen harrier recovery plan

BASC has committed to contributing £75,000 towards Natural England’s hen harrier recovery work over the next three years.

basc.org.uk

@kes and
@triton

 

[paultap]

Personally I doubt if this expulsion from Basc will make much difference to either person, surely if they wanted to, they will just join another shooting organisation. It makes a good headline for Basc though I suppose.

It's a pity that Basc wasn't as keen to stand up for shooters rights in defending the use of leadshot instead of just meekly rolling over in a subservient manner, or latterly in standing up to support its own members rather than withdrawing the insurance that might otherwise defend their right to own firearms in a court case.

 

[shortshot]

BASC has lost the plot if it is paying Natural England. Looks like bribing a gov. department....do tell what empty promises you have garned for the membership in return?
Or is this purely a misguided PR exercise? Would have been much better donated to Game Wildlife Conservation Trust in more ways than one.

 

[nic531]

Well done for banning them. it is a PR show that the behaviour is not accepted by the majority of shooters. In respect of the money to NE, would it not be better to use the money to buy some land off of RSPB.... lots of wildlife would then benefit with the land being managed correctly

 

[countrryboy]

So i take it with wildlife crime unlike every other crime in this land not only are u considered guility until proven innocent, but even when proven innocent ur are still considered and treated as guilty??
Do basc know more than the jury do?
Its bad enough on here and even more so elsewhere on the trial by social media, even when there is glaring holes in the alleged evidence that just doesn't make sense.

And that's by the organisation meant to be supporting shooters and keepers.

I have no idea if u he done it or not BUT he was found not guility in a court of law and still treated as guility.
Not that anyone really expects basc to actually have their backs nowadays, very sad really, just want the next PR click bait that makes basc look good.

 

[Whitefront]

I think you are confusing the criminal test with the civil test when it comes to a charge of "bringing into disrepute", which may be the crux of an internal disciplinary. I imagine you could bring shooting into disrepute without being convicted of any criminal offence, in certain cases.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here is the RSPB's commentary:

Stopping illegal poisoning – just what will it take? - Investigations - Our work - The RSPB Community

 

[shortshot]

Read that piece and we find the prosecution was led by NE.....the same organisation BASC has apparently just donated £75k too.....glad I found a better recipient in GCWT of my hard earned.

 

[Whitefront]

And I seem to recall that BASC recently gave about £300K to GWCT, so your hard earned is in good company

BASC awards GWCT grant to help in the fight for shooting

BASC has awarded a £300k package to the GWCT to help fund their research into shooting's role in conservation.

basc.org.uk

 

[bobthedug]

So i take it with wildlife crime unlike every other crime in this land not only are u considered guility until proven innocent, but even when proven innocent ur are still considered and treated as guilty??
Do basc know more than the jury do?
Its bad enough on here and even more so elsewhere on the trial by social media, even when there is glaring holes in the alleged evidence that just doesn't make sense.

And that's by the organisation meant to be supporting shooters and keepers.

I have no idea if u he done it or not BUT he was found not guility in a court of law and still treated as guility.
Not that anyone really expects basc to actually have their backs nowadays, very sad really, just want the next PR click bait that makes basc look good.

Are you referring to a different case?
You seem to be having a bit of a rant when this thread is about 2 members who plead guilty to “wildlife crime” and were subsequently expelled.

 

[countrryboy]

But if u go into a shed and find concentraed Roundup/Gylco not properly stored or without the ur PA licences u have committed the same offence.
I would be putting an awful lot of faith in much the R spb publish.


The protection of predators should never have gotten as far as it has, its just a crazy situation where an animal or bird is protected for ever no matter how much there population increases or much damage they are doing locally.,
No other country has protection laws as crazy as ours and many species are on the brink of extinction either locally or in UK purely down to predator pressure but nothing is ever done about it.

I'm not condoning the illegal killing of BoPs but SNH/NE should also be following the laws and issuing special licences where populations are abundent and causing local problems.
The NGO even won a court case to prove NE were acting illegally by not issuing special licences

 

[countrryboy]

Are you referring to a different case?
You seem to be having a bit of a rant when this thread is about 2 members who plead guilty to “wildlife crime” and were subsequently expelled.

The boy in suffolk plead guilty to storing pesticide wrongly and not securing shotguns and ammo, he never pleaded guilty to a wildlife crime

 

[bobthedug]

The boy in suffolk plead guilty to storing pesticide wrongly and not securing shotguns and ammo, he never pleaded guilty to a wildlife crime

Yeah, apologies you are correct.