BASC launches register of competent deer stalkers

[User00047]

That's laughable. I'm sorry, I'm not the biggest fan of BASC but I don't go out of my way to slag them off generally but...

You've created a Register of Competent Stalkers to address one enquiry a month for a membership of 150,000 folk??? I've had more enquiries myself in a year than that and I'm just a Joe-average, recreational stalker!!!

I guess the idea is that, once the word is out that only BASC can be trusted to set a landowner up with a competent deer stalker, the enquiries will come flooding in from everywhere.
It’s very funny though that there’s currently 12500 members competing for one enquiry per year.

 

[David Barker]

There is certainly a place for a proper list of deer managers that can manage deer locally to a high standard. I know that there is a push to plant millions more trees across Scotland and a real push to up the number culled by 50 thousand over the next few years. I would be available but would want paid for my time.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman I’m not sure the issues were resolved. It was left that there is still uncertainty whether Zurich will cover anyone who earns money from their stalking.

You are right I took part in the thread which is why I am asking if the issues raised in this thread have been resolved by BASC.

As far as I am aware the shooting insurance sold by BASC does not cover anyone for any claim against them in relationship to sold game.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

BE

Have you joined the register?

There was no mention of Zurich in that thread. The issue was in relation to emails deer stalkers received from the Woodland Trust in September last year and whether their activities were commercial or recreational relative to individual's particular insurance policies. BASC's insurance policy was clarified with Woodland Trust, and individual deer stalkers then clarified their particular circumstances for Woodland Trust with Marsh and all resolved.

Here is the relevant text again from the insurance advice on BASC website:

The BASC policy only covers recreational activities, however, we recognise that some members will take a small payment in cash or in kind as a result of their recreational activity. In most cases this payment, such as it is, will barely cover expenses; never the less it’s important that members are clear on when the BASC policy will protect them and when or if they need additional cover. Indemnity under the BASC members policy includes the activities of members engaging in recreational shooting activities who make a commercial gain from the sale of meat or other small income derived from such recreational shooting activities, provided this is not their primary source of income.

However, if you are formally engaged by a commercial shoot to attend on specific days to undertake a specific task such as beating, picking up or loading, then you will be employed by the shoot and covered under the shoots Employer Liability cover.

If you hire yourself out as a loader, coach, pest controller , stalker/ deer manager etc, you will need additional cover for this commercial activity; see here. A professional shooters policy brokered by Aim Risk Services and Underwritten by Sportscover Europe Limited.

BASC member insurance

BASC membership comes with insurance you can rely on.

basc.org.uk

 

[Whitefront]

Conor, you have the patience of a saint. Or a primary school teacher.

 

[big ears]

Have you joined the register?

There was no mention of Zurich in that thread. The issue was in relation to emails deer stalkers received from the Woodland Trust in September last year and whether their activities were commercial or recreational relative to individual's particular insurance policies. BASC's insurance policy was clarified with Woodland Trust, and individual deer stalkers then clarified their particular circumstances for Woodland Trust with Marsh and all resolved.

Here is the relevant text again from the insurance advice on BASC website:

The BASC policy only covers recreational activities, however, we recognise that some members will take a small payment in cash or in kind as a result of their recreational activity. In most cases this payment, such as it is, will barely cover expenses; never the less it’s important that members are clear on when the BASC policy will protect them and when or if they need additional cover. Indemnity under the BASC members policy includes the activities of members engaging in recreational shooting activities who make a commercial gain from the sale of meat or other small income derived from such recreational shooting activities, provided this is not their primary source of income.

However, if you are formally engaged by a commercial shoot to attend on specific days to undertake a specific task such as beating, picking up or loading, then you will be employed by the shoot and covered under the shoots Employer Liability cover.

If you hire yourself out as a loader, coach, pest controller , stalker/ deer manager etc, you will need additional cover for this commercial activity; see here. A professional shooters policy brokered by Aim Risk Services and Underwritten by Sportscover Europe Limited.

BASC member insurance

BASC membership comes with insurance you can rely on.

basc.org.uk

@Conor O'Gorman Marsh are a brokers for insurance. The policy that BASC sell through Marsh was underwritten by Zurich. When the policy was traced back to the underwriters it then became an issue that what was written in the BASC literature was not the same as Zurich were underwriting. This was in the original thread.

Is that now not the case?

Have BASC now got a policy which confirms cover to its members for FULL liability on any issue related to their stalking and any issue arising from the sale of any venison, be it private sale or to Approved Game Dealers up to a few thousand pounds of sale per annum as stated in the literature?

The reason I ask is that this was not the case earlier this year and wonder if the “rock solid insurance” as quoted on the video is now truely rock solid as I’m coming up to renewal time.

BE

 

[sikamalc]

Well take out commercial insurance with Clivertons.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman Marsh are a brokers for insurance. The policy that BASC sell through Marsh was underwritten by Zurich. When the policy was traced back to the underwriters it then became an issue that what was written in the BASC literature was not the same as Zurich were underwriting. This was in the original thread.

Is that now not the case?

Have BASC now got a policy which confirms cover to its members for FULL liability on any issue related to their stalking and any issue arising from the sale of any venison, be it private sale or to Approved Game Dealers up to a few thousand pounds of sale per annum as stated in the literature?

The reason I ask is that this was not the case earlier this year and wonder if the “rock solid insurance” as quoted on the video is now truely rock solid as I’m coming up to renewal time.

BE

None of that was in the original thread, so I am at a loss to help you further to resolve something that didn't exist. The relevant text on BASC webpage is there plain to see as per my earlier posts and on the insurance webpage I have linked to you can download all the policy documents. You have now made reference to 'up to a few thousand pounds of sale per annum as stated in the literature' and I cannot see where that is, apologies if I have missed it. I wonder if you are confusing with another policy - you did mention in the other thread that you were going to phone brokers for NGO insurance? In any case if anything is unclear for you in relation your stalking activities and if you are coming up for renewal with BASC the best thing is to phone Marsh - who deal with both enquiries and claims.

Scroll to the bottom of the insurance webpage for details:

BASC member insurance

BASC membership comes with insurance you can rely on.

basc.org.uk

And at the third time of asking - have you joined the register?

 

[Deerkeeper2]

The deer branch of the NGO have done something similar but in a quite different way.
When they have received requests in the past they have sent out an email to their members.

I can’t speak for the current situation but the BDS always used to pass these enquiries on via the Branch network and successfully helped numerous landowners find appropriate deer managers over the years as have the NGO. It’s far from being a new idea. The concept of a ‘list’ that can be passed on to landowners and organisations is made more challenging by GDPR which is why it is easier to pass the details of the landowner and let people contact them directly. I assume that BASC cover this off by having a box to tick to say that you are happy to share your details?

 

[big ears]

And at the third time of asking - have you joined the register.

There is little point in joining the register if I will not be continuing with my membership.

If I continue with my membership then I will but the decision as to whether I remain is dependant on answers related to the questions I have asked.

Honestly I believe this scheme as others have said as a publicity stunt by BASC. Nothing wrong in that, BOGOF offers in all shops are the same.

What I would like is an answer to whether the actual insurers agree with what is written on BASC website. This was not the case last year and I presume that your repetition of the BASC website the case remains and that until it is tested in a court of law no one will know. Again nothing wrong in that but transparency is important.

If I do as @sikamalc says have to consider alternative cover then this needs to be costed in. BASC insurance is not the cheapest on the market, others offer similar levels of cover for a significant saving. The carrot dangling of more stalking is something to consider but as we now know the odds of getting any is very small as we now know 12 requests in last year. As once said about the national lottery,”it’s a tax on those who don’t understand probability “ I feel this scheme falls into similar thinking.

Sorry a long winded way of saying that if BASC insurance is “rock solid” and I stay a member then I would register, why not, although I won’t be holding my breath.
The big issue to me is the “rock solid” claim that I’m yet to be fully convinced.

I hope this answers your question.

BE

 

[big ears]

Well take out commercial insurance with Clivertons.

Yep it is a definite option. In which case the total cost of the insurance comes into play. BASC is not the cheapest if I need Clivertons as well. This is kind of why I’m asking these questions.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

There is little point in joining the register if I will not be continuing with my membership.

If I continue with my membership then I will but the decision as to whether I remain is dependant on answers related to the questions I have asked.

Honestly I believe this scheme as others have said as a publicity stunt by BASC. Nothing wrong in that, BOGOF offers in all shops are the same.

What I would like is an answer to whether the actual insurers agree with what is written on BASC website. This was not the case last year and I presume that your repetition of the BASC website the case remains and that until it is tested in a court of law no one will know. Again nothing wrong in that but transparency is important.

If I do as @sikamalc says have to consider alternative cover then this needs to be costed in. BASC insurance is not the cheapest on the market, others offer similar levels of cover for a significant saving. The carrot dangling of more stalking is something to consider but as we now know the odds of getting any is very small as we now know 12 requests in last year. As once said about the national lottery,”it’s a tax on those who don’t understand probability “ I feel this scheme falls into similar thinking.

Sorry a long winded way of saying that if BASC insurance is “rock solid” and I stay a member then I would register, why not, although I won’t be holding my breath.
The big issue to me is the “rock solid” claim that I’m yet to be fully convinced.

I hope this answers your question.

BE

Perhaps best then to phone Marsh and ask them the questions you need to ask as regards your own deer stalking activities. Will you phone them and then let me know how you get on - either on here or by PM?

I hope we can sort this out for you and it would be good to set the record straight given the amount of posts by you on this, a public forum, raising concerns in an OP about the deer register, and kind of diverting it to insurance. Because I really don't understand why you keep posting on this thread about your concerns about BASC insurance especially when your references to Zurich has nothing to do with last year's thread on this forum which was about the Woodlands Trust and and you have not addressed why you are referring to 'up to a few thousand pounds of sale per annum as stated in the literature' which I cannot find, and I think you are confusing BASC policy with another policy - you did mention in the other thread that you were going to phone brokers for NGO insurance. Did you phone them?

In any case if anything is unclear for you in relation your stalking activities and if you are coming up for renewal with BASC the best thing is to phone Marsh - who deal with both enquiries and claims.

 

[Husky]

Jeez, nineteen pages, if you want to sign up for this then sign up, if you don't then don't.

 

[Cris]

Jeez, nineteen pages, if you want to sign up for this then sign up, if you don't then don't.

Oh theres a few more pages worth to go. It been real entertainment.
But on a serious not has brought out some interesting views.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Perhaps best then to phone Marsh and ask them the questions you need to ask as regards your own deer stalking activities. Will you phone them and then let me know how you get on - either on here or by PM?

I hope we can sort this out for you and it would be good to set the record straight given the amount of posts by you on this, a public forum, raising concerns in an OP about the deer register, and kind of diverting it to insurance. Because I really don't understand why you keep posting on this thread about your concerns about BASC insurance especially when your references to Zurich has nothing to do with last year's thread on this forum which was about the Woodlands Trust and and you have not addressed why you are referring to 'up to a few thousand pounds of sale per annum as stated in the literature' which I cannot find, and I think you are confusing BASC policy with another policy - you did mention in the other thread that you were going to phone brokers for NGO insurance. Did you phone them?

In any case if anything is unclear for you in relation your stalking activities and if you are coming up for renewal with BASC the best thing is to phone Marsh - who deal with both enquiries and claims.

You might think this is a ridiculous statement, but as we know once a claim is made the insurance companies look at every avenue to avoid paying a claim.
It never used to be mentioned by any shooting organisations, I thought it was introduced to cover beaters?

The mention of insurance on this thread might appear to have gone off subject, it has a little, but insurance is an important part our activities.

I'm insured through Clivertons, so I don't need to contact Marsh insurers, I am a business, not recreational.

The £5k, I can see that as mentioned in previous posts, £5k is the NGO limit, not BASC, but I find this even more interesting, so in theory a 'recreational' stalker, as a member of BASC, could be in paid employment and earn for example, £30k/annum, and earn up to that amount from venison sales, and still be regarded as 'recreational' as it's not their primary source of income?
Would BASC insurers see this person as recreational, if not where is the point where it changes?
I think we have just come full circle.
I think perhaps you should contact Marsh insurers for clarification.

 

[User00047]

You might think this is a ridiculous statement, but as we know once a claim is made the insurance companies look at every avenue to avoid paying a claim.
It never used to be mentioned by any shooting organisations, I thought it was introduced to cover beaters?

The mention of insurance on this thread might appear to have gone off subject, it has a little, but insurance is an important part our activities.

I'm insured through Clivertons, so I don't need to contact Marsh insurers, I am a business, not recreational.

The £5k, I can see that as mentioned in previous posts, £5k is the NGO limit, not BASC, but I find this even more interesting, so in theory a 'recreational' stalker, as a member of BASC, could be in paid employment and earn for example, £30k/annum, and earn up to that amount from venison sales, and still be regarded as 'recreational' as it's not their primary source of income?
Would BASC insurers see this person as recreational, if not where is the point where it changes?
I think we have just come full circle.
I think perhaps you should contact Marsh insurers for clarification.

Absolutely right.
When it comes to dealing with insurance companies, the devil’s in the detail.

 

[Pete6.5]

Another issue might be it makes it very easy for a land owner/manager to get the numbers of very keen stalkers to start the bidding process

 

[sikamalc]

Ok were done on this.
This thread has gone off line from the original post.
As someone has pointed out, if you want to sign up, do so, if not walk on by. And can I draw your attention to my Post at the top of the forum page. Please take note.