kenbro
Well-Known Member
The cost of those carts. sounds cheap when compared with cf rifle ammunition.
Sure they’ll perform well at those close ranges.
Ken.
"BASC slams Government’s lead ammunition review" - A bit bloody late!!!!!!!
- Thread starter The deer man
- Start date
Sure they’ll perform well at those close ranges.
Ken.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I've never used tin shot so your input is welcome. I am guessing...I'll call the Bontoft's anyway...that in old guns they have no vices?
I recently read that California, which originally started banning lead, is going to allow air gunners to continue shooting with lead.
Any confirmation of this from BASC, Conor O’Gorman?
Any confirmation of this from BASC, Conor O’Gorman?
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Were not in the US so it matters not a jott here!
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
This BTW was a Scottish Government conclusion.
So, as I have said, and will say again, this, this February 2020 nonsense proposed by BASC was only ever ALL ABOUT PROTECTING ITS INVESTMENT OF THE BRITISH GAME ALLIANCE (justifying what is sold is exported to deflect bad publicity from big bag commercial shoots) and those shoots where all game is shared between beaters, guns and etc. were thrown under the bus.
- A majority of the consumers use acidic media in the cooking and the lead would be more bioavailable.*
- From estimates of dietary exposure to lead for adults, consumption of one or two large game meals a week is unlikely to be a health concern, whereas there is potential increased risk of cardiovascular or kidney effects with regular consumption of one or two game bird meals.
- The risks are lower for people who eat game occasionally.
* Really? I think not! That means, says the document, cooked in wine, vinegar or tomato sauce (see below). Me? I roast whole pheasants and slice and fry breast in a "stir fry". I have never cooked a pheasant in wine. Horrible! I might drink a glass or red wine with pheasant but I don't do that usually either. And I know of nobody that cooks pheasant in vinegar nor that serves pheasant with a side dressing of tomato sauce!
The document linked to stating "Wine is the main ingredient used in preparation (88%). This is very relevant - at acidic pH (2 - 4) of the wine as well as vinegar (38%) and tomato sauce (33%) - tiny fragments of lead would dissolve and be more available."
So, as I have said, and will say again, this, this February 2020 nonsense proposed by BASC was only ever ALL ABOUT PROTECTING ITS INVESTMENT OF THE BRITISH GAME ALLIANCE (justifying what is sold is exported to deflect bad publicity from big bag commercial shoots) and those shoots where all game is shared between beaters, guns and etc. were thrown under the bus.
- A majority of the consumers use acidic media in the cooking and the lead would be more bioavailable.*
- From estimates of dietary exposure to lead for adults, consumption of one or two large game meals a week is unlikely to be a health concern, whereas there is potential increased risk of cardiovascular or kidney effects with regular consumption of one or two game bird meals.
- The risks are lower for people who eat game occasionally.
* Really? I think not! That means, says the document, cooked in wine, vinegar or tomato sauce (see below). Me? I roast whole pheasants and slice and fry breast in a "stir fry". I have never cooked a pheasant in wine. Horrible! I might drink a glass or red wine with pheasant but I don't do that usually either. And I know of nobody that cooks pheasant in vinegar nor that serves pheasant with a side dressing of tomato sauce!
The document linked to stating "Wine is the main ingredient used in preparation (88%). This is very relevant - at acidic pH (2 - 4) of the wine as well as vinegar (38%) and tomato sauce (33%) - tiny fragments of lead would dissolve and be more available."
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Are the cups of euthanasia lead solutions?Been bloody frosty for a long while!
Lovely afternoon stalking yesterday, cold and fresh, this morning bolloks too it!
-5° this morning so stalking can do one!
I’m now on my 3rd cup of enthusiasm and better get on and do some work, then better get on and do some work!
Agreed, but they initiated the lead issue but have realised there are limitations.
Everyone is say look at what other countries are doing - well this is an example!
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Yet the majority of research into lead contamination from shot game comes from there, usually relating to native americans who eat more venison
My conclusion is this is about personal freedom of choice and market pressure.
If the market wants to sell only non toxic shot game then the producers must comply or have no outlet for the shot game which make shooting it untenable. Given the consumer has not personally harvested the game and are just buying a product, like beef, pork, chicken etc.
If harvesting, shooting it for personal consumption then that should be the individuals choice just like other risks in life like smoking. Hence if the likes of Norfolk Deer Search choose to never use lead again that is his freedom of choice.
However this is not just about human consumption.
If the market wants to sell only non toxic shot game then the producers must comply or have no outlet for the shot game which make shooting it untenable. Given the consumer has not personally harvested the game and are just buying a product, like beef, pork, chicken etc.
If harvesting, shooting it for personal consumption then that should be the individuals choice just like other risks in life like smoking. Hence if the likes of Norfolk Deer Search choose to never use lead again that is his freedom of choice.
However this is not just about human consumption.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
100% but the only problem is, that people can not be trusted to comply and there are 1000’s of stalkers that will try to bend the rules, so it will have to be a complete ban.
or technology to the rescue? how hard can it be for a “cheap” way to determine the material used in bullets or shot.
Could not a fragment recovered from the game be say dropped into an acid and if it goes blue? green? it’s copper etc
or some unique signature of lead?
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
I thought it was getting a bit warm.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
That’ll be a problem for the shotgun shooter.
I shoot at a pheasant or mallard using lead because it’s just for me, I clip it and it ends up in next door’s bag a week later.
Or I don’t like lead I use steel but I end up with one of your lead shot birds .
It’ll be lead free only for birds.
terrier1
Well-Known Member
I have been working in the food industry for 43 year and in all that time we have had these things called metal detectors and yes they do pick up lead.
Well I have been out today and smacked a few squirrels under feeders and a couple of crows too with lead.
If a munty had showed it would have been fair game and one for the pot. Me and my family would eat it.
Am not selling it. Just eating it so why copper or what not.
You dont need to use lead, fair do's but I and others dont agree, freedom of choice.
One chipped tooth from lead shot in 60 years and another from a chunk of crackling, apart from that I still function.
Has varget being been banned extended my life time or any one elses ... no, just a publicity exercise.
I will not be jumping on the bandwagon until it's a banned wagon.
kenbro
Well-Known Member
Sorry if i gave the impression of experience with Tin shot, i was thinking no cartridges on sale now would fail to perform adequately on 25 yard birds.
I didn’t know you could buy carts. loaded with Tin.
If i had a sentimental gun i wouldn’t object to paying £1.50 per shot to be able to use it.
Feeding a pigeon gun would be something else….
Did hear a rumour that the EU are going to ban pigeons from feeding on farmer’s crops, but only in member countries.
Ken.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Fair play, i started shooting copper more out of curiosity and never felt i needed to back to lead.
What gets on my tits are those who dismiss copper without proper testing in their own rifle.
You cant say of a bullet is good or bad, lead or copper until you have shot 100 Animals in all weathers.
I've heard similar arguments before, before the ban on semi auto centre fire rifles, before the moving of high capacity shotguns from SGC to FAC, before the banning of centre fire pistols for sport shooting, before the banning of .22 pistols for sport shooting. You would think that the shooting community as a whole would catch on that all this back bending and appeasement wins us no favour
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Yes, as I understand it, since 1 July 2019, there is a ban in California on the use of lead ammunition for hunting with the exception of lead airgun pellets.
This is outlined in the following blog post:
Lead-Free Hunting Takes Effect Statewide July 1
The California Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) wants to remind hunters that beginning July 1, 2019, nonlead ammunition will be required when taking wildlife with a firearm anywhere in Califo…
cdfgnews.wordpress.com
I have provided the link to the webpage above as the CA state advice webpage is down for some reason but its here for ref:
BASC is fighting the proposed ban on lead airgun pellets for hunting and target shooting in England, Wales and Scotland and an article with further information on that is here from July 2022:
Lead pellet ban: BASC to fight lead airgun pellet ban proposals - Shooting UK
Dr Conor O’Gorman, BASC’s Head of Policy and Campaigns, reviews the proposals to restrict the use of lead ammo, with a firm focus on airguns
www.shootinguk.co.uk
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