BBC at its finest....

[Freeforester]

For the TLDR time poor types:

12K views · 737 reactions | Climate Crisis Origins Explained | Electroverse

Climate Crisis Origins Explained

www.facebook.com

At 05:38 this morning there was a dew, and the clovers were tightly closed…

 

[Freeforester]

Also, not on the BBC

 

[TringSaint]

We will never hit net zero and even if we did it will make no difference, there 300 year’s worth of fossil fuel emissions out there. And that is dwarfed by natural sources of Co2

I’m 71 and I’ll let you in on a secret, I’ve been listening to climate change doom mongering for over 50 years, not one of the forecast global disasters has come about. Dublin, London and New York are still comfortably above sea level, we haven’t tipped into another ice age and the planet remains as inhabitable as it has been since the last ice age. There are definitely some regional changes, but forecasts of the end of civilisation and the extinction of almost everything just aren’t happening.
The net zero ideology is based on fear, not science. Every single time we pass a threshold without consequence, a new threshold is created and the fear factor is ramped up.
Its dumb.

Adaptation is what we do, we adapted to sudden changes in climate before and we can do it again, but we can’t do it by de industrialising our economies and impoverishing ourselves. We need a healthy vibrant economy to pay for the transition to whatever is coming.
Should we use clean technology wherever possible? Absolutely, but don’t go letting the search for perfection get in the way of building a robust, flexible, adaptable source of energy. The renewables just can’t provide that, not now and probably not ever.
Here’s a scientifically unchallengeable climate prediction. It is changing, it has always changed, it has never been stable and it never will be stable.
I appreciate that my views are highly inconvenient and are not consistent with the net zero consensus, they are however based on 3 billion years of this planet’s climate data, which regularly and cyclically swings from blue marble to dirty snowball without any inputs from Homo sapiens.

What other natural sources of co2 are you referring to?

Volcanoes produce 1/270th of the co2 that we do, and there is NO OTHER natural source of co2 in our atmosphere or planet. So it has to be us!

What I find funny, is that all of the climate change deniers continually poke holes in real science by promoting other wacky theories which are totally baseless. Yet, when you ask them what’s the cause, all you get is ….. SILENCE!

That’s the thing - you trash the real stuff but have no explanation that can be proven to be the cause. It’s all conjecture and subterfuge to try and divert people away from reality.

It’s all BS! And you suck it up, not because you are stupid, but because to actually concede that we are the problem is painful for some people to accept, and that acceptance might mean you have to change, and change terrifies some people.

At the end of the day, the forces involved in climate change dwarf anything you or I can do, but we can make a difference if we want to, so you either get on the bus and try to reduce your impact or buckle up for a bumpy ride, as it’s only going to get worse from here on in!!

Take your pick!

 

[TringSaint]

Also, not on the BBC
View attachment 483508

You do realise that climate change doesn’t mean it’s hot everywhere, don’t you?

Excessive heat across Europe can cause excessive rain across North Africa (which they have had) or excessive cold over Siberia in summer.

The changing weather patterns mean that what was once normal no longer exists. Yes, we have had outliers in the past, but look at the data. If you look at the top 20 warmest years on record for global average temperatures, only 1 year (1998) is before the turn of the millennium. So 19 of the 20 hottest years recorded since 1850 are in the last 26 years. Coincidence?

That data is from NASA, in case you are wondering. Go and have a look at: Global Temperature - Earth Indicator - NASA Science and you can see all the graphs and data that show what is actually happening.

Moreover, the last 3 years are the top 3 hottest on record. So, pick as many holes as you like, the DATA doesn’t lie.
Whether you want to accept it is a different matter, however.

 

[TringSaint]

The elephant in the room that you don't talk about in your response though is global population.

The fact that the population of the planet has doubled in the last 50 years has put far more strain on the planets resources than anything that came before. Even just trying to feed that rapidly expanding number.

And it just gets worse. And every religion seems to think it is the first duty of their followers to breed more rugrats as future members of their congregation.

You'd have to wonder why such a push for solar in the UK? Production rates must be crap on a dark day in rainy January, yet look at the rush to electric heating.

And then you see the solar fans replacing food production on prime farm land. Genius.

And if off shore wind is so great, wtf are we tying the price of all energy to the price of gas?

And that's before we look at the costs, and even capability, of recycling the current turbines and panels, and replacing them.

I'm definitely closer to the end of my life, rather than the beginning, and it may be that I am just a miserable, cynical, moaning old git (guilty as charged). but I can't see many pushing for that as part of the solution.

You are 100% right.
Global population has doubled in 80 years. Add onto that the energy we consume per person as a global average has nearly doubled from 13000 kWh to over 22000 kWh.
So that’s nearly a 400% increase in energy consumption since WW2.

 

[Dunwaters]

What other natural sources of co2 are you referring to?

Volcanoes produce 1/270th of the co2 that we do, and there is NO OTHER natural source of co2 in our atmosphere or planet. So it has to be us!

Us, and pretty much every other living organism on the planet.

What I find funny, is that all of the climate change deniers continually poke holes in real science by promoting other wacky theories which are totally baseless. Yet, when you ask them what’s the cause, all you get is ….. SILENCE!

I’m not a climate change denier, the climate is not and never has been stable, what I question is the whole basis of the theory that says that “ we “ are responsible for it, that “ we “ can control it and that as “we” are responsible for creating the conditions that triggered the change, “ we” should destroy our own economic well being in pursuit of an impossible goal.

That’s the thing - you trash the real stuff but have no explanation that can be proven to be the cause. It’s all conjecture and subterfuge to try and divert people away from reality.

It’s all BS! And you suck it up, not because you are stupid, but because to actually concede that we are the problem is painful for some people to accept, and that acceptance might mean you have to change, and change terrifies some people.

At the end of the day, the forces involved in climate change dwarf anything you or I can do, but we can make a difference if we want to, so you either get on the bus and try to reduce your impact or buckle up for a bumpy ride, as it’s only going to get worse from here on in!!

If even half the predicted catastrophe occurs, you are quite correct, we are indeed truly Donald Ducked. Quite how that situation is going to be improved by deliberately sabotaging our own economy and rendering it impossible for our governments to put mitigations in place is utterly beyond my comprehension.

Take your pick!

 

[Tim.243]

You do realise that climate change doesn’t mean it’s hot everywhere, don’t you?

Excessive heat across Europe can cause excessive rain across North Africa (which they have had) or excessive cold over Siberia in summer.

The changing weather patterns mean that what was once normal no longer exists. Yes, we have had outliers in the past, but look at the data. If you look at the top 20 warmest years on record for global average temperatures, only 1 year (1998) is before the turn of the millennium. So 19 of the 20 hottest years recorded since 1850 are in the last 26 years. Coincidence?

That data is from NASA, in case you are wondering. Go and have a look at: Global Temperature - Earth Indicator - NASA Science and you can see all the graphs and data that show what is actually happening.

Moreover, the last 3 years are the top 3 hottest on record. So, pick as many holes as you like, the DATA doesn’t lie.
Whether you want to accept it is a different matter, however.

Did the Earth small tilt cause a change so that is why the last ice age finished?
The vast poler ice caps retreated of there own accord which is nothing to do with man....unless people want to blame them lol

 

[TringSaint]

Us, and pretty much every other living organism on the planet.

I’m not a climate change denier, the climate is not and never has been stable, what I question is the whole basis of the theory that says that “ we “ are responsible for it, that “ we “ can control it and that as “we” are responsible for creating the conditions that triggered the change, “ we” should destroy our own economic well being in pursuit of an impossible goal.

If even half the predicted catastrophe occurs, you are quite correct, we are indeed truly Donald Ducked. Quite how that situation is going to be improved by deliberately sabotaging our own economy and rendering it impossible for our governments to put mitigations in place is utterly beyond my comprehension.

Ok, so we agree that we are the cause. Great.

So, you are right, we cannot sabotage our economy at the alter of net zero - that’s bonkers. But that doesn’t mean we can’t make changes.

If we targeted the energy efficiency of domestic dwellings then we could make massive savings in co2 and in your pocket through spending less to heat your home.
Adding rainwater collection systems to every new build would reduce the water demand and reduce flooding as attenuation tanks would get filled first.
Adding solar to every new house, with a decent battery, and adding it to every warehouse roof would make many homes self sufficient, or pretty close to, with respect to electricity.
Using public transport or limiting driving to only essential travel has a huge impact, so does buying food produced here and in season.

None of these things will damage our economy (might even help it if we do it right) so what’s stopping us?

 

[TringSaint]

Did the Earth small tilt cause a change so that is why the last ice age finished?
The vast poler ice caps retreated of there own accord which is nothing to do with man....unless people want to blame them lol

Don’t think so. The 5 degree tilt has been there for some time. The mangetic polarity of the planet does switch, but iirc it’s every few hundred thousand years.

There is a varying orbit to the sun that can have a small effect, but the last ice age also correlated with very low co2 concentrations in the atmosphere, so the north became colder and white reflects light, so you got a doubling effect.

 

[Tim.243]

Don’t think so. The 5 degree tilt has been there for some time. The mangetic polarity of the planet does switch, but iirc it’s every few hundred thousand years.

There is a varying orbit to the sun that can have a small effect, but the last ice age also correlated with very low co2 concentrations in the atmosphere, so the north became colder and white reflects light, so you got a doubling effect.

Well a few hundred thousand will do for me

 

[Freeforester]

You do realise that climate change doesn’t mean it’s hot everywhere, don’t you?

Excessive heat across Europe can cause excessive rain across North Africa (which they have had) or excessive cold over Siberia in summer.

The changing weather patterns mean that what was once normal no longer exists. Yes, we have had outliers in the past, but look at the data. If you look at the top 20 warmest years on record for global average temperatures, only 1 year (1998) is before the turn of the millennium. So 19 of the 20 hottest years recorded since 1850 are in the last 26 years. Coincidence?

That data is from NASA, in case you are wondering. Go and have a look at: Global Temperature - Earth Indicator - NASA Science and you can see all the graphs and data that show what is actually happening.

Moreover, the last 3 years are the top 3 hottest on record. So, pick as many holes as you like, the DATA doesn’t lie.
Whether you want to accept it is a different matter, however.

This does not prove your hypothesis concerning man’s direct role in causing the variation.

One wonders what the data interpreters would have made of the medieval warm period, or the Roman optimum periods - equally impressive, at least, but no more relevant to the erroneous attribution of climate to man’s efforts, much less anthropogenic carbon dioxide, unless you can point us to their great industrial efforts prior to the ‘modern’ Industrial Revolution as widely recognised as coming with the steam engine and woollen mill, etc.

Inconvenient little truths these facts may be,
- Pray, tell us of their great industry…

 

[fixedwheel]

You are 100% right.
Global population has doubled in 80 years. Add onto that the energy we consume per person as a global average has nearly doubled from 13000 kWh to over 22000 kWh.
So that’s nearly a 400% increase in energy consumption since WW2.

Nope, far worse than that, it's more than tripled in less than those 80 years.

1950 < 2.5bn
2022 > 8.0bn

 

[Freeforester]

Well a few hundred thousand will do for me

Consider the Bok globulars, the Kuiper Belt, the carbon mat found covering the American megafauna remains, the absence of evidence of human activity for the 1500 or so years since the megafauna die off (11,700 years ago approximately), and Pliny’s writings of a time before the great flood, which saw the Sun rise in the West, and set in the East, in tandem with the great sub oceanic canyons found across every continental shelf; oh, and the reason NASA was formed in 1958, and the purpose of the Apollo missions, Tim; they’re all connected. Look into the recent Statute 4488 on the US Law books too.

ESA SWARM project, the wandering magnetic poles, the weakening magnetosphere on Earth, the Carrington event of 1859, the rate of decay of Earth’s magnetic field, the reversal of spin direction of the Earth’s inner core relative to the crust, as noted by seismologists in the past twelve months, the orientation of polarity reversal of sub oceanic rock along with its frequency of polarity reversal, and many other matters..

Unlike Tringy, they do know what they’re talking about. Remember the red herring when CO2 is being blamed…
If time poor: MarkoPL100 - 4 mins, of which the first three will advise.



There’s more than sunshine coming from the Sun…

 

[Freeforester]

You do realise that climate change doesn’t mean it’s hot everywhere, don’t you?

Excessive heat across Europe can cause excessive rain across North Africa (which they have had) or excessive cold over Siberia in summer.

The changing weather patterns mean that what was once normal no longer exists. Yes, we have had outliers in the past, but look at the data. If you look at the top 20 warmest years on record for global average temperatures, only 1 year (1998) is before the turn of the millennium. So 19 of the 20 hottest years recorded since 1850 are in the last 26 years. Coincidence?

That data is from NASA, in case you are wondering. Go and have a look at: Global Temperature - Earth Indicator - NASA Science and you can see all the graphs and data that show what is actually happening.

Moreover, the last 3 years are the top 3 hottest on record. So, pick as many holes as you like, the DATA doesn’t lie.
Whether you want to accept it is a different matter, however.

Some of the temperatures alluded to are discussed here:

 

[TringSaint]

This does not prove your hypothesis concerning man’s direct role in causing the variation.

One wonders what the data interpreters would have made of the medieval warm period, or the Roman optimum periods - equally impressive, at least, but no more relevant to the erroneous attribution of climate to man’s efforts, much less anthropogenic carbon dioxide, unless you can point us to their great industrial efforts prior to the ‘modern’ Industrial Revolution as widely recognised as coming with the steam engine and woollen mill, etc.

Inconvenient little truths these facts may be,
- Pray, tell us of their great industry…

Disprove it then.
Don’t just keep chucking bricks at the data, prove with real evidence that I am wrong.
I double dare you!!

 

[TringSaint]

Consider the Bok globulars, the Kuiper Belt, the carbon mat found covering the American megafauna remains, the absence of evidence of human activity for the 1500 or so years since the megafauna die off (11,700 years ago approximately), and Pliny’s writings of a time before the great flood, which saw the Sun rise in the West, and set in the East, in tandem with the great sub oceanic canyons found across every continental shelf; oh, and the reason NASA was formed in 1958, and the purpose of the Apollo missions, Tim; they’re all connected. Look into the recent Statute 4488 on the US Law books too.

ESA SWARM project, the wandering magnetic poles, the weakening magnetosphere on Earth, the Carrington event of 1859, the rate of decay of Earth’s magnetic field, the reversal of spin direction of the Earth’s inner core relative to the crust, as noted by seismologists in the past twelve months, the orientation of polarity reversal of sub oceanic rock along with its frequency of polarity reversal, and many other matters..

Unlike Tringy, they do know what they’re talking about. Remember the red herring when CO2 is being blamed…
If time poor: MarkoPL100 - 4 mins, of which the first three will advise.



There’s more than sunshine coming from the Sun…

Sorry, did you say that the earth stopped spinning in one direction and then started spinning in the other?

Brilliant! That’s the best one yet!

You’ll be telling me next that the moon is made of cream cheese and the earth’s core is marshmallow!

That’s made my day!!
Thank you!

 

[Freeforester]

Disprove it then.
Don’t just keep chucking bricks at the data, prove with real evidence that I am wrong.
I double dare you!!

It’s all in the thread, you’ve just not read it nor understood it, chum.

 

[Freeforester]

Sorry, did you say that the earth stopped spinning in one direction and then started spinning in the other?

Brilliant! That’s the best one yet!

You’ll be telling me next that the moon is made of cream cheese and the earth’s core is marshmallow!

That’s made my day!!
Thank you!

Tell your grandkids, they’re the ones who’ll need to know it ain’t the CO2 that grandpa waffles on about.

Pliny referred to it, as do the seashells of a certain vintage, but don’t let that concern you either. Watch what happens when the days begin to stretch

 

[TringSaint]

It’s all in the thread, you’ve just not read it nor understood it, chum.

No, what I mean is, by using known science, like the laws of thermodynamics (which is what is at play here predominantly), explain why all of the human activity is having zero effect, yet some mysterious other ‘thing’ is the actual cause.

Unless you can demonstrate where all of that co2 and energy is coming from, by using actual real science, then your argument is based on fiction.

Put it in bullet points to make it clear for everyone the basis of your argument, clearly identifying what the cause is, how it manifests in our atmosphere and why all other possible causes are irrelevant, and then we can all see if it stacks up.
That’s easy, isn’t it?

Go on, humour me!

 

[TringSaint]

Tell your grandkids, they’re the ones who’ll need to know it ain’t the CO2 that grandpa waffles on about.

Pliny referred to it, as do the seashells of a certain vintage, but don’t let that concern you either. Watch what happens when the days begin to stretch

Sorry, when did this happen? How can ‘seashells’ tell you that this occurred??

And this is Pliny who thought a cure for a headache was to tie a woman’s breast bandage around his head, or advised a pregnant woman that if she wanted her baby to have black eyes then she had to eat a shrew! Let’s all be honest here - Pliny was batsh!t crazy!!