BDS 'Advanced Stalkers Qualification'

[timbrayford]

So, if for example you have certificates for DSC 1 & 2, Advanced Deer Management, HAD, First Aid, Manual lifting & ATV's this would already illustrate a level of knowledge and skills attained, why do you need a badge from the BDS to tell the rest of the world what they already know?

 

[cookingfat]

So, if for example you have certificates for DSC 1 & 2, Advanced Deer Management, HAD, First Aid, Manual lifting & ATV's this would already illustrate a level of knowledge and skills attained, why do you need a badge from the BDS to tell the rest of the world what they already know?

you dont...!

but if you would like you can pay to have a medal for it.

 

[teyhan1]

What a load of utter rubbish.
The BDS shamelessly promote alleged qualifications which people who are desperate to live the stalking life go and get. They prey on the hopes that you might be one of the lucky ones that get one of only a half a dozen jobs that come up each year.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Knowing that a very high number of stalkers are certificate hunters and badge collectors there was a clearly a meeting where the penny dropped and they thought.... 'hey!! lets invent the coolest sounding award like medals that you can only get but doing loads of courses... wait BDS courses!!!' Then a couple of old boys at the meeting squeezed out some pee in excitement.

The deer sector does not need this as the standards have already been set and are established.

That is exactly as i see it too, they must think we can't think for ourselves and see right through this, somebody trying to justify their position and come up with ideas i suspect.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Tackleberry270]

So, if for example you have certificates for DSC 1 & 2, Advanced Deer Management, HAD, First Aid, Manual lifting & ATV's this would already illustrate a level of knowledge and skills attained, why do you need a badge from the BDS to tell the rest of the world what they already know?

If you are asking me Tim...

It is just my take on what the BDS are doing but I would put a question back to you and everyone else who are making similar points....

Do you have the same opinion on those that apply to their various guilds and bodies for the following 'badges',


'AInstLM' - Associate Member of the Institute of Leadership and Management, with 4 levels up to 'FInstLM' (Fellow).


'AIH' - Associate Member up to Fellow for the Institute of Hospitality.


'ACIL' up to 'FCIL' for the Chartered Institute of Linguists.


.... how do you think they qualify and what is the difference? ... as I said, I have some of my own doubts and I think there are a few differences.

 

[White Hart]

ah!!! you have to do the BDS Advanced Deer Manager or Advanced Stalker qualifications or you cannot achieve gold. There is a forceful per-requisite to do a full BDS course if you want to get your Gold!!!

So that's £100 registrations for B/S/G + a mandatory £340 minimum of BDS training you must complete as part of the process.

This from a Charity..... yeh sure the industry is backing it

I hope they accept the Jelen ADMC because it's exactly the same level of Lantra course and directly comparable, suggests they will.

Yes im confused by this and was thinking the same. It does rather look like you have to do the BDS courses by the wording.

I've done a number of courses and enjoy learning more but this does rather look just like a revenue making thing with no benefit to the stalking community or the welfare of deer etc?!?

 

[Tackleberry270]

What a load of utter rubbish.
The BDS shamelessly promote alleged qualifications which people who are desperate to live the stalking life go and get. They prey on the hopes that you might be one of the lucky ones that get one of only a half a dozen jobs that come up each year.

..... or, conversely, you feel encouraged to continue to attend courses becoming more knowledgeable and skilled and as a result better qualified and more competent in what you do. The applicant has to see this for what it is and decide what it is worth to them.

 

[timbrayford]

If you are asking me Tim...

It is just my take on what the BDS are doing but I would put a question back to you and everyone else who are making similar points....

Do you have the same opinion on those that apply to their various guilds and bodies for the following 'badges',


'AInstLM' - Associate Member of the Institute of Leadership and Management, with 4 levels up to 'FInstLM' (Fellow).


'AIH' - Associate Member up to Fellow for the Institute of Hospitality.


'ACIL' up to 'FCIL' for the Chartered Institute of Linguists.


.... how do you think they qualify and what is the difference? ... as I said, I have some of my own doubts and I think there are a few differences.

I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with those various bodies that you quote, the point that myself and perhaps others are making is once you have obtained qualifications backed by LANTRA, DMQ etc. what added value do you get from these BDS Awards, especially when they do not appear to be backed by any bona-fide accrediting body?

 

[Paul at Fechan]

why would anyone who is naturally motivated to engage in CPD whether professional or recreational need a gold star? This is obviously aimed at the certificate and badge hunter as a cash in.

This promotes the worst values of competitive certificate collecting and elitism, the need of some to wave their gold badge above everyone else saying I'm better that you because an award says so. I'm all for training and CPD but this is promoting doing courses for the sake of doing courses, many of which would simply be irrelevant to the stalker but they would do it for the bragging rights of a gold badge.

 

[Greymaster]

Based on that list of courses, widely available, then SD could set up a medal scheme of equal merit, going up the precious alloy/metals designation all the way to Unobtainium?

 

[Monkey Spanker]

I appear to have enough 'points' to go straight in at Gold at the cost of £100. I also have a very strong deer CV already supported by credible experience and certificates.
Would a nice gold badge benefit me further? I doubt it. I almost went for it, but the negative response so far makes me now wonder whether it will ever become recognised as a worthwhile award? It could be quite collectable one day I suppose, but then, so is a 'Jim'll Fix It ' badge! I try to support the BDS as much as possible, but I'm somewhat sat on the fence over this one.
I think I'll wait and see what the uptake is first. Has anybody registered for award yet?
MS

 

[JabaliHunter]

I don't know too much about this, but as I understand it, the awards are effectively a BDS approved 'wrapper' for a variety of deer and countryside related vocational training qualifications. It is probably a good idea for those who want to enter or move within the deer industry.

I think that things like this are increasingly inevitable as what was once an outdoor pursuit or hobby slides inexorably into a commercial industry. None of these qualifications would be necessary if it weren't for people trying to make money out of deer stalking in every possible way.

 

[palmer_mike]

I'm just not sure what the point of it is?
Say for instance I apply for a FC stalking lease and say I have the BDS gold award, they won't know what elements I have completed I order to attain the award (as it's modular and a number of elements may be completed to attain each level). I would still have to itemise what individual courses and certificates I had, so what's the point of saying I have the gold award?

 

[Tackleberry270]

I appear to have enough 'points' to go straight in at Gold at the cost of £100. I also have a very strong deer CV already supported by credible experience and certificates.
Would a nice gold badge benefit me further? I doubt it. I almost went for it, but the negative response so far makes me now wonder whether it will ever become recognised as a worthwhile award? It could be quite collectable one day I suppose, but then, so is a 'Jim'll Fix It ' badge! I try to support the BDS as much as possible, but I'm somewhat sat on the fence over this one.
I think I'll wait and see what the uptake is first. Has anybody registered for award yet?
MS

Also sat on the fence. Hearing about it early on I was looking forward to its release but the presentation is undeniably 'trophy' style rather than professional and doesn't seem to encompass hands on experience.

Someone questioned what value it had and I think it's value is very dependent on people voting with their feet as participants and then the grades being used by the wider industry/syndicates/dmg's.

Doesn't look good at the moment.

 

[countrryboy]

It's just complete nonsense, while i often slate training and pointless qualifications this seems to highlight everything wrong with silly courses in 1.

I'm all for training and learning but it must be relevant so for generally hands on practical skills generally involved in stalking etc u need to be doing fairly practical hands on courses for them to have any real value.

To gain points for siting at the back drinking coffee at a best practice day or deer dog training day is crazy, u don't have to have learned anything or even have a dog or trained it to any standard bt u still get points?

But the very sad fact is, it will catch on as stalkers will do it to be 'better' than there mates and because its paper work and thats wot the folk sitting in offices want to cover there arses and guarantee them a job shuffling it about

Too much money involved in training nowadays in all sectors.

 

[Tackleberry270]

It's just complete nonsense, while i often slate training and pointless qualifications this seems to highlight everything wrong with silly courses in 1.

I'm all for training and learning but it must be relevant so for generally hands on practical skills generally involved in stalking etc u need to be doing fairly practical hands on courses for them to have any real value.

To gain points for siting at the back drinking coffee at a best practice day or deer dog training day is crazy, u don't have to have learned anything or even have a dog or trained it to any standard bt u still get points?

But the very sad fact is, it will catch on as stalkers will do it to be 'better' than there mates and because its paper work and thats wot the folk sitting in offices want to cover there arses and guarantee them a job shuffling it about

Too much money involved in training nowadays in all sectors.

It's not a course.

If you are into training then you would know that explanation and demonstration comes first before you put it into practice so there is definitely a time for sitting and listening/observing.

Seminars and training days form part of CPD and remaining 'current'.


I think there is lots that hasn't been thought through with the scheme but they are on the right lines with this part.

 

[Greymaster]

It's not a course.

If you are into training then you would know that explanation and demonstration comes first before you put it into practice so there is definitely a time for sitting and listening/observing.

Seminars and training days form part of CPD and remaining 'current'.


I think there is lots that hasn't been thought through with the scheme but they are on the right lines with this part.

CPD with the "C" being "continuing" or "continuous", but having reached "Gold" there is nowhere else to go, so CPD is a misnomer.

One way of ensuring the continuous is to require "maintenance points", say when gold attained, so top up with 30 points each year thereafter, for "Gold Medal and Bar"?

 

[Tackleberry270]

CPD with the "C" being "continuing" or "continuous", but having reached "Gold" there is nowhere else to go, so CPD is a misnomer.

One way of ensuring the continuous is to require "maintenance points", say when gold attained, so top up with 30 points each year thereafter, for "Gold Medal and Bar"?

So long as I could just wear the tunic ribbon bars when I'm out stalking. The medals and bars would weigh me down a bit.


.... but yes. Something like that would make sense. A minimum annual attendance of industry related seminars or best practice days. Being a staunch supporter of the BDS I feel a bit embarrassed and frustrated that they would go for an award system that just sounds tacky and is so easily criticised. There must be some way to also quantify and integrate hands on experience!??

 

[FGYT]

My take is (parently Stalkers have asked for this )

So basically for a fee: The BDS will add up already earned held/paid for certifications and give an over all cert/Badge for these but each could be different as any number of combinations of the qualifying certifications can be used to gain the points so basically stalkers have asked you to Charge them again to list qualifications they already have and will have to list individually when needed as the levels wont represent a difinative set .......blimey a bargain

15 point for an out door survival course same as a carcase butchery course ????

[FONT=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]well there are no official recognised survival courses every instructor and school makes their own up as there is no governing body etc[/FONT]

 

[6pointer]

I am sure the industry will set there own standards .I cant se FC asking for a gold . They will always ask for specific qualification that meet there needs. The bronze silver or gold award could be a away of getting finding out the badge hunters and can count them out from doing a job.I remember my old boss asking if I could make a penis out of putty I said no I hadn't tried, He said that's good to many making putty pricks and not working we don't ne another