It does seem that, here in the 21st century, the BDS does make some valid points......
BDS Statement on Stag Hunting
- Thread starter Keith Edmunds
- Start date
Good.
No justification for chasing deer with dogs. No different to setting a lurcher at them
No justification for chasing deer with dogs. No different to setting a lurcher at them
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Well done BDS I entirely agree
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
Conflicted here !
The law is the law no matter how much one might dislike it.
Joined the BDS pretty much automatically when I started stalking.
I find it very hard to continue to belong to any organisation that finds itself in bed with Prof Bateson.
The law is the law no matter how much one might dislike it.
Joined the BDS pretty much automatically when I started stalking.
I find it very hard to continue to belong to any organisation that finds itself in bed with Prof Bateson.
You realise he died in 2017?
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
I did not know that.
Tempted to say something in poor taste.
Restrain yourself.
He was a very decent man and an excellent scientist who had a profound effect on the study of animal behaviour. His findings that hunting deer with dogs was physiologically stressful to the deer are not up for debate and no rational person can deny them. What you do with the information is up to you.
Hornet
Well-Known Member
The problem is of course, that despite the BDS or any other organisation or body, taking a stance against hunting with hounds, the anti brigade will not suddenly cosy up to them and proclaim "oh they are ok, they don't support hunting with dogs" whatever your personal feelings are, what we DONT need is one branch of "hunting" decrying another, must be music to the hunt sabs ears, well done BDS
To be fair to them, as a charity part of their remit is deer welfare, if they have evidence that chasing with dogs causes unnecessary welfare issues then I would expect them to call that out
Can't see anything wrong with what the BDS has said. In line with law, scientific research and animal welfare.
It is well established that dogs can detect disease in humans which is undetectable to experienced medics by examination. It is unsound to presume that this skill does not extend to deer, merely because nobody has spent a tonne of money investigating it. If the BDS contests this, they really ought to commission the necessary body of research to settle the question.
Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
A week last Saturday I pulled into a farmyard alongside a conifer block. Stepped out of the car and could immeadiately hear dogs barking in the private woodland quite close by. Immeadiate thoughts were that some walker's dogs from the hillside footpath had been left to run free and had started to chase deer. So I quickly jumped on the quad and headed to the top of the hill to look for the owners. With no one in sight when I got there, I headed back down and through a woodland block to access the other side of the farm quickly. After stopping and picking up the sound of dogs, I headed in their direction and stopped on the woodland edge where the barking was at it's noisiest. Anyway, a couple of roe left the woodland right in front of me followed a minute later by a dozen or so beagles, trailing the exact line the roe had just taken.
Knowing that no hunt had permission to be there, I could hear a horn in the distance so headed off again to catch up with the trespassing hunt. I eventually found "the hunt", away on another farm that I could not get too from where I was. "The hunt" were some 3/4 mile distance from their pack of maybe 20 beagles, that were running about over 4 different landowners land, none of which they had permission. I could see they were happy to trail deer, probably anything that moved, and if I could have approched from where I was I would have done. The beagles were being "controlled" by 2 adults and 5 children and as far as I am concerned, who were just rural vandals with no care of landowners or the animals that roam there. Some of my family are hunting people (fox), and we all know that they stick to the law (Haa), and again, one of the landowners banned one if this lot from the land after hounds were causing mayhem with both livestock and deer. The hunt master was obnoctious to the owners and felt they had the right to enter and break the law.
I have called the farmer who's land the beagles were supposed to be but as yet, no answer. Maybe I shouldn't have sent a text in advance asking for details of the beagles owners
Some may be better controlled by others but most of them do not deserve to be allowed to run amock in the countryside (stag, fox or anything else hounds) under the pretence they do a necesary job.
It was interesting to see roe run from one part of the woodland to another whilst sika headed to the middle of fields, group up, work out where the houds were and where they were moving too, and then head back to the quieter areas. It did seem as though a week later, the sika were a lot more skittish and sharper, especially the larger groups.
Knowing that no hunt had permission to be there, I could hear a horn in the distance so headed off again to catch up with the trespassing hunt. I eventually found "the hunt", away on another farm that I could not get too from where I was. "The hunt" were some 3/4 mile distance from their pack of maybe 20 beagles, that were running about over 4 different landowners land, none of which they had permission. I could see they were happy to trail deer, probably anything that moved, and if I could have approched from where I was I would have done. The beagles were being "controlled" by 2 adults and 5 children and as far as I am concerned, who were just rural vandals with no care of landowners or the animals that roam there. Some of my family are hunting people (fox), and we all know that they stick to the law (Haa), and again, one of the landowners banned one if this lot from the land after hounds were causing mayhem with both livestock and deer. The hunt master was obnoctious to the owners and felt they had the right to enter and break the law.
I have called the farmer who's land the beagles were supposed to be but as yet, no answer. Maybe I shouldn't have sent a text in advance asking for details of the beagles owners
Some may be better controlled by others but most of them do not deserve to be allowed to run amock in the countryside (stag, fox or anything else hounds) under the pretence they do a necesary job.
It was interesting to see roe run from one part of the woodland to another whilst sika headed to the middle of fields, group up, work out where the houds were and where they were moving too, and then head back to the quieter areas. It did seem as though a week later, the sika were a lot more skittish and sharper, especially the larger groups.
Not sure what your point is. It wouldn't surprise me that dogs could detect a sick deer as well as naturally chasing down the slow ones. It isn't reasonable to use this as an excuse for stag hunting with dogs
Why not? Given the alternative strategy of shooting the healthiest and omitting the sick is considered good.
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
What does this imply re wolves and the rewilding zealots ?
I guess that will be ok because it does not involve people they choose not to like.
I guess that will be ok because it does not involve people they choose not to like.
Surely current practice is to shoot all deer compatible with season and cull plan? Disease status doesn't enter in to it, other than the obvious cases reported on here.
Using dogs to hunt another animal to exhaustion - especially when that animal can be killed humanely - is not justifiable.
One might reasonably argue that disease status is important rather than something that ought to be ignored. Especially from a welfare perspective.
What you mean is that you don't agree with it. It is obviously justifiable. A state of exhaustion is not equivalent to cruelty. Nor is being hunted by dogs. The police use dogs after all. Are we to presume that is actually torture rather than a legitimate method of apprehending criminals?
Many endurance sports involve the participants being driven to extreme exhaustion. Is the London marathon or the Boat Race unjustifiable torture?
But the BDS is not a branch of hunting, however much we might wish they were. As per post #10 their remit is deer welfare and by inference humane management of such.The problem is of course, that despite the BDS or any other organisation or body, taking a stance against hunting with hounds, the anti brigade will not suddenly cosy up to them and proclaim "oh they are ok, they don't support hunting with dogs" whatever your personal feelings are, what we DONT need is one branch of "hunting" decrying another, must be music to the hunt sabs ears, well done BDS
K
Humans decide what level of exhaustion they subject themselves to, these deer can't. This may have been a legitimate means of getting food a long time ago, but now there are better methods and this activity is no longer justifiable.
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