Big gun poll

[alberta boy]

It is fairly apparent that many of the less experienced folk on here have yet to experience "when a good backstop goes bad" phenomenon!! No backstop is 'unquestionably safe' as you put it, especially in general stalking scenarios. If you think a 45 degree sand bank on a range is safe, get yourself down to one when they are firing tracer at night and see where they all end up! Transpose that 45 degree bank to a 10 degree ploughed field and think again. I put it to you that in all of the scenarios above where you actually fired, the exiting bullet hits a piece of flint lying at a slight angle or an old plough shear!!! It has happened to me on several occasions and whatever was left of the bullet went away with a blood curdling ricochet noise like something out of a cowboy film! If you shoot enough deer, it WILL happen,and when it does you'll be glad you only fired a small frangible bullet rather than hundreds of grains of high energy tumbling lead believe me!
We live in a society governed by authority which is driven by risk assessment. Your closing statement admits that a large calibre is more dangerous than a small one if it goes wrong, but you limit the error to the applicant? Sadly, this is not always the case though, and the scenario I describe above can (and WILL) happen to the best of us if you do it enough. Sure, there is always a risk with any type of firearm, but the risk assessment process identifies with this and attempts to minimise it to as low aspossible.



We live in different worlds my friend! Yours is vast and open with an accepted gun culture, as well as large and VERY dangerous animals.
Ours is a relatively small island inhabited by far too many people, most of whom are against guns! Our deer are generally quite small and probably the most dangerous animal about at the time (other than wild boar which some folk have). I would want a big gun as well if I thought there was a remote possibility of encountering a Grizzly, but the only grizzling you'll get over here is from folk that aren't allowed guns as big as they'd like!
MS

True enough my friend , I use a 303 Brit or a 30/06 for most things here anyway . I do like my 45/70 when there are large toothy things around though lol . Out of all the rounds mentioned , I'd rate the 9.3X62 as one of the most useful larger calibers to carry out here . It will do anything you need in a reasonable weight rifle . Or you can do what a huge amount of Canadian hunters do and buy an 06 .

AB

 

[Greener Jim]

Yeah the big stuff isn't an everyday kind of thing but they have a place and I think that a double .450/400 nitro or a bolt gun in 404 Jeffrey is very good boar medicine if you want to step away from the 30 cals.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

MS, I don't think so at all. Anyone who is suitable to own firearms will have to be sensible to own and shoot them safely and judged to have enough common sense not to just start hammering away with a .50 Cal at something totally unsuitable. Having lived in a country (Switzerland) where once you have your first license you may buy most things bar fully automatic as long as you register it, I've seen it work remarkably well. Another example is Canada where you show your license and buy a long gun. You don't even have to register it.

So, I resent being called "cuckoo". Please think a little before you type and remove a little of your ignorance. (Latter maybe tougher than the first)

Well done Alistair on a good post.

Scrummy

If you really believe that is a good post, then you are testament to why the police need to impose restrictions and closed tickets to the inexperienced!
Justification and good reason for possession of firearms should be (and is) down to the police under fairly strict Home Office guidelines, and NOT down to someone that has held a FAC for 2 minutes and maybe shot a couple of deer! Somebody quite clever (Einstein!) once said, "the only source of knowledge is experience". Sadly experience is something you often get just after you really needed it! I'm on a roll now with famous quotes, so may as well add that judgement comes from experience, but great judgement comes from bad experience.
I may well be arrogant at times, but Ignorant?
adjective
adjective: ignorant

• 1.
  lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
  
  
  I have a huge amount of experience and therefore refer you to Einstein!
  MS
  
  
  
  

 

[Muir]

I have a couple of 45-70's but have owned a dozen or more. I had a 405. I've had a pair of .444's. I have a .577 Snider and a couple of .58 muzzle loading rifles. The big bore I like as much as most and more than others? 11mm Mauser. Great cartridge for sporting use. I have three rifles chambered for it.~Muir

 

[Harry mac]

I've voted no, but it's a qualified no. For my hunting as it stands now, the biggest I would go (and have done in the past) would be a 45-70 chucking a 405grn bullet at between 1500 & 1600 fps.
For long range "plinking" on a range, though, I'd love a Boys A.T. Rifle. Just for gits & shiggles

 

[mchughcb]

Hypothetically, would you get a big bore if you didn't have to/could justify it (pigs, really aggressive targets)?

By big I mean over .375 and over 4000 ft-lbs. Basically elephant gun stuff, not really hot 45-70 loads in a No1.
I'm sure you understand the spirit of the poll. I'm curious if people would go bigger if our licensing system were less scared of big calibers.

When you handle and fire these beasts on a regular basis the "fun" dissipates real quick. Firstly apart from the weight and cost is the belting on your shoulder. Germans got it right, 9.3x62 in a tikka T3 battue, light, cheap and not so nasty recoil. If I ever get around to getting my 458Win it will just be for competition. For real hunting I'll stick with my blaser double in the smaller 9.3 calibres thanks.

 

[mchughcb]

I've voted no, but it's a qualified no. For my hunting as it stands now, the biggest I would go (and have done in the past) would be a 45-70 chucking a 405grn bullet at between 1500 & 1600 fps.
For long range "plinking" on a range, though, I'd love a Boys A.T. Rifle. Just for gits & shiggles

Boys AT, well my mate has one. Knock yourself out - literally. Cheaper to get your wife to hit you on the shoulder with a star picket. They are a pig of thing.

 

[dodgyrog]

Having touched off a couple of rounds of 416 rigby through a CZ bolt action..............NO THANKS!!

Ian.

I shot 10 rounds rapid at the BSRC Ashes comp using a .416 Rem some years ago - something to remember. Always wear a cissy pad - thickest one you can buy!

 

[bogtrotter]

If I had the need for one yes but I don't,I don't shoot targets paper punching holds no interest for me.

Have never been to Africa, could never afford to hunt African Game even if I wanted to.

There are no wild Boar here and I am not interested enough in them to travel to where there are,have been invited several times to shoot them in Europe have always declined as driven hunting does not appeal to me.

So for me its a no, purely because I have no need for one,but if that's what floats your boat go for it.

 

[mchughcb]

. Maybe a 500gr bullet will do more damage, and maybe it will fly further, but none of that matters as long as it doesn't hit something it shouldn't. .

Love to see some actual science to back up that a 500gr from a 458Win will travel further than a 150gr from a 308Win lets say at 100m on a hard track, assuming you completely missed the quarry.

 

[Uncle Norm]

I've voted no, but it's a qualified no. For my hunting as it stands now, the biggest I would go (and have done in the past) would be a 45-70 chucking a 405grn bullet at between 1500 & 1600 fps.
For long range "plinking" on a range, though, I'd love a Boys A.T. Rifle. Just for gits & shiggles

An acquaintance suffered a detached retina as a result of firing the Boys A.T. Rifle.

My father was a regular soldier prior to 1939 and his assessment of the Boys was 'absolutely useless'.
He told me that they were obsolete prior to the outbreak of WW2 but continued in use for a short time.
Evidently, according to Dad, they were the first piece of equipment to get 'lost in a ditch', when on active service, due to the weight and ineffectiveness against the panzers.
Hopefully no panzers on the range so should be ok..... just hang on to your retinas Harry.

 

[Southern]

Are most of the .450/400 rifles seen over in the UK ( or on the Continent ) 3.25 version, or do you see any of the 3.00 inch .400 Jeffery?
I wonder in what chambering are most of the SxS rifles produced today?

The .470 NE and .458 Win Mag have quite a bit of recoil, and it seems that a .40-caliber, 400-gr bullet at 2,150 fps is plenty of momentum, same energy as a stout .375 H&H load - sort of like the .444 Marlin doing with a 300-gr bullet what the .45-70 does with a 405-gr bullet. And the rifles should be a bit slimmer and lighter than a .470 NE (12 - 13 lbs ).

 

[Jagare]

I've known a few people with DG rifles. Without fail they were afraid of them. An old boy i first came to Sweden With had a .338, yes i know not really a DG rifle. He was rubbish when shooting it and managed to Phuck upp on a couple of moose. Another chap had a rigby in .375 H&H. He was a scrawny arsed bloke and it was just too much rifle for him. He then had Heym build him a double in .458 win. Lovely rifle but i bet he never shot more than a box of cartridges out of that rifle. I bet i shot more rounds out of that one box than he did.
Problem i see with DG rifles is that there are to many people who don't shoot well with a common stalking caliber and i think their shooting skills would not improve with a large caliber rifle

 

[finnbear270]

Being as this is a "Fun" thread, I always liked the Ma Deuce, but owning one would have to be on condition it was pintle mounted to a genuine Willy's GP.

 

[Southern]

The last time my gun dealer friend bought back a .470 NE, it came with 16 rounds still unfired in the box of ammunition. He said, "I always go shoot these things, to make sure they work. Want to go?"

Well, of course I did. So, after work, we took it to a nearby range in the country ( his shop is downtown in a big city), and he shot it, both barrels. I shot both barrels. He said that most people he invite to shoot these things only fire one shot - even some of those considering the purchase!! That should tell them they are not ready for it.

I figured that his 12-lb Thomas Bland .470 had about 78 ft-lbs of free recoil, almost twice my lightest .375 bolt action. My .375 S&S was heavier, and had less, but my last ( 2005 ) Model 70 Express .375 H&H, at 9.25 lbs, felt like some of my 30-06s.

 

[reiver]

The last time my gun dealer friend bought back a .470 NE, it came with 16 rounds still unfired in the box of ammunition. He said, "I always go shoot these things, to make sure they work. Want to go?"

Well, of course I did. So, after work, we took it to a nearby range in the country ( his shop is downtown in a big city), and he shot it, both barrels. I shot both barrels. He said that most people he invite to shoot these things only fire one shot - even some of those considering the purchase!! That should tell them they are not ready for it.

I figured that his 12-lb Thomas Bland .470 had about 78 ft-lbs of free recoil, almost twice my lightest .375 bolt action. My .375 S&S was heavier, and had less, but my last ( 2005 ) Model 70 Express .375 H&H, at 9.25 lbs, felt like some of my 30-06s.

I completely agree with you about the recoil and there some people not up to the noise of firing a large rifle.
I shoot downloads in my 9,3 in my club range which are only pushing 900fps but because of the noise and a bit of
Flash out of the naughty end they think it is a 25pounder untill they have a go .
Bob

 

[Greener Jim]

I've only seen a couple .450/400's for sale and they've both been the .400 Jeffery.

I agree, I think a lot of people don't shoot them enough to get familiarised with them or overshoot them and develop a flinch. I'll put 3 downrange with me 'big' gun and then a couple mags of .22 or whatever else I have to hand, then another 3 .458 etc but I stop at 12 shots max . Takes longer to get good with a big gun I think simply because of this system but it does work. It's not like .243 where you can rattle away all day.
Plus weight is your friend with the big guns. Hit the gym and have a heavier rifle! Obviously you still want it light enough but it baffles me when I see 10lb .505 Gibbs'.
Enough to scare anyone a thing like that!

 

[welshwarrior]

I used to carry my 450 no2 when I doubted I would shoot things if I had to I knew it would stop most things, my 375 H&H I carried and shot a lot with including plains game it is surprising how little damage it does (large lead moving fairly slowly) over some smaller faster bullets used.

Yes they recoil a bit more and maybe I was just young dumb and not very small or have rose tinted memories but I'd love to still be using them more often.

 

[Greener Jim]

Sounds like you had one hell of a gap year mate. It's almost Selous-esque.

I think you summed up why I want the bigger bores. As I grow older I can move down the calibers. However, as many have learnt, ones body fails you as the years roll by and the large bores become less and less physically realistic.
I figure start now and get a .243 when I'm old and frail!

 

[welshwarrior]

Sounds like you had one hell of a gap year mate. It's almost Selous-esque.

I think you summed up why I want the bigger bores. As I grow older I can move down the calibers. However, as many have learnt, ones body fails you as the years roll by and the large bores become less and less physically realistic.
I figure start now and get a .243 when I'm old and frail!

benfit of a father who lived and worked in Southern Africa and a sister dating a PHs son!!!!!