Binos and separate LRF or combined unit?

B

BlueJuice

Well-Known Member
Still early days for me in stalking deer. Have a few guided stalks under my belt, DSC1 completed and FAC in progress so looking at potentially sorting some of the other bit of kit I’ll require over the coming months.

Vortex diamondback binos seem a relatively solid no frills option, and vortex also do a relatively affordable LRF I’ve heard good things about.

Is there any benefit into looking at a combined unit instead? Prices seem a bit higher for this luxury but some other brands like GPO do them at a similar price point as lower end individual units. Would love to get some opinions on this so I can direct my research a bit more if possible - pros/cons etc
 
My view is to keep them seperate.

Why?

1) Electronics fail over time. Glass just keeps going. Most manufacturers give a long warranty on glass, but usually limit to a just few years for any electronic bits. So in a few years time you will just have an good bins that are unnecessarily heavy thanks to failed electronics.

2) Electronic range finders add extra weight and bulk to binoculars. This makes binoculars cumbersome for everyday glassing challenges.

3) you don’t need range finders all the time. Once you know your own ground you will quickly know how big it is. Look at maps, work out how long fields, woodland edges etc. actually are. Google earth is an invaluable tool. Fence posts, tramlines etc are all regular features that again give good accurate ranging.

And learn how big a deer looks in your binoculars at different ranges.

4) Additional cost - it seems to me that cost of an integrated range finders seems to be quite a bit higher than cost of good binoculars and a separate range finder.

5) everyone seems to be wedded to thermal imaging these days. Just about all now incorporate a range finder.

Most guides do use range finding binoculars and / or thermal imaging. They are constantly being asked by clients how far such and such is and having a rangefinder provides the answer. In the old days, it was simply - “we need to be a wee bit closer”, or “shoot it”.

My suggestion is buy the best binoculars you can afford. If you are stalking over lots of different ground, or very broken ground get a simple and basic rangefinder, that you take when you need it, but try and learn to judge range and then use the range finder as confirmation.
 
For me, the answer depends on how much onus you put on the absolute optical quality of the binocular versus the ability to range find without needing two separate items to carry.

Most deer you will probably shoot well inside 150yds, a distance where knowing the range is of little importance. Even between 150 and 200yds, your ability to shoot precisely from field positions may well generate more error than not knowing whether a deer is 165yds or 205yds away. Beyond 200yds, it can become more important depending on the cartridge you are shooting and at what range you have your scope set up. Beyond 250yds it is really very very important to know the range and be well practiced in taking longer shots and knowing your limitations from various field positions.

What i find is that when I need/want to range an object, I am far enough away from it that reaching in to my pocket and quickly grabbing a tiny little RF unit is rarely ever an exercise that results in so much lost time that a shooting opportunity is lost. By not have an RF built in to my binocular, it means I can have a better unit with better optical quality that is smaller, lighter and nicer to handle. A few years back I did buy a set of Geovid HDb3000's and was so underwhelmed with their optical performance and overall ergonomics, that I sold them within a few months and went back to a top end basic binocular. Everyone is different and RF binos are certainly not appalling optically but they are still somewhat compromised if you genuinely covet the absolute best quality view through your optics.
 
So very good points raised, there's one more piece that might, might, be worth consideration. There are now binos with Applied Ballistics software built in. I've always been a point and shoot kind of stalker, but the purchase after next will likely be a pair with Applied Ballistics.
BTW - I would buy a secondhand pair of swarovski over Vortex any day. your eyes may differ.
 
To put in perspective: I still use a pair of Leica binoculars I bought second hand in 2005. They’ve never been serviced.

In that time, I’ve had 4 rangefinders (including 2 leicas) fail on me. And I only started using rangefinders in 2016!
 
Vortex Fury 5000 HD cannot fault the optics very crisp and great definition through my eyes, 1 of the fastest ranging on the market, even in last light are acceptable, not overly heavy and all in one unit.

Warranty though never used is second to none unlike the Euro makers who won't warrant the electrics for very long.

Try before you buy the Vortex might just tick all the boxes.
 
If you want an all-in-one digital unit the Habrok HE25 will tick the boxes - however the thermal quality is a bit rubbish, and like others have said - electronics fail over time. I wouldn't go for an expensive unit unless it had considerable warranty cover. Plus thermal quality wise, I wouldn't go for anything less than the Pro 50s (at the time of writing, the guts of 3 grand).

I own the Vortex Fury 5000 HD's, the quality is a lot better than some people make out, especially when compared to top end Swaro's. Plus Vortex has a no-quibble lifetime warranty that can't be beaten. Having the ability to quickly glass and range your target in one action saves precious moments, rather than fumbling with 2 separate units.

However, try before you buy though. Your eyes may prefer a different picture.
 
Mungo said:
To put in perspective: I still use a pair of Leica binoculars I bought second hand in 2005. They’ve never been serviced.

In that time, I’ve had 4 rangefinders (including 2 leicas) fail on me. And I only started using rangefinders in 2016!
Click to expand...
Even more perspective I have had the same Zeiss Binoculars since 1999, and never had a rangefinder. With any decent centrefire rifle a wee bit of inaccuracy in range estimation makes no difference out to 200 plus yards. If I think itvis too far, I either get closer or pass up the shot.

I have learned the hard way that long shots have a much greater probability of going wrong and often result in a much longer follow up, so any time saved is quickly negated by the added embuggerance of a more difficult recovery.
 
Heym SR20 said:
Even more perspective I have had the same Zeiss Binoculars since 1999, and never had a rangefinder. With any decent centrefire rifle a wee bit of inaccuracy in range estimation makes no difference out to 200 plus yards. If I think itvis too far, I either get closer or pass up the shot.

I have learned the hard way that long shots have a much greater probability of going wrong and often result in a much longer follow up, so any time saved is quickly negated by the added embuggerance of a more difficult recovery.
Click to expand...
Indeed, on of the big advantages of getting close enough to be reasonably certain of bang flop is that you know where you are going to have to carry it from. A bit of a run and it might be up a steep gully of something similar.

David.
 
Mungo said:
To put in perspective: I still use a pair of Leica binoculars I bought second hand in 2005. They’ve never been serviced.

In that time, I’ve had 4 rangefinders (including 2 leicas) fail on me. And I only started using rangefinders in 2016!
Click to expand...
^^this

My binos are ex-military from the 70s and are super handed down to me by my twitcher dad. The only way I'll need new ones are if I leave them hanging in a tree again
 
Depends on your style of staking and your own ability: binoculars are quite subjective in my opinion. Good points have been made about electronics ceasing to work and short warranties. One way around this is to buy Vortex =lifetime warranty-no quibble. I personally don’t think it’s on for other high end optic manufacturers to sell £2000 plus LRF binoculars with only a 12-18 month warranty on the LRF element. If you know distances on your ground then I wouldn’t bother. If however you shoot on multiple sites or over extended distances then an LRF is well worth the layout. I’ve used one in South Arica to great effect. Your other choice is to get a Thermal Imager with an LRF.
 
What is your budget? That has a huge difference on advice. Personally, I would take thermal everyday. For no other reason that it will spot heat easier than binos so you know what is there.
If you don’t want thermal, you can get a dedicated rangefinder quite cheap, I still have an old swaro monocular that get dragged out occasionally, usually when I am zeroing.
 
Well after all these responses ive had a good think and done some more research and decided ill just get a normal set of binos for now as they will always have utility and if i go down the thermal monocular route in the future that will probably cover the LRF requirement. I dont really want to spend more than £250 and dont really have the need to have the latest and greatest etc and it seems for this amount absolutely nothing comes close to the Vortex Diamondback HD 8x42 if looking new.

Id absolutely consider used, but even used glass from the usual high end manufacturers seems to go for much more - But who knows maybe a bargain will come up
 
You won’t go wrong with the Vortex Diamondbacks, cracking glass for the money and as said the warranty can’t be bettered.
 
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