Blaser r93

I always smile at the term fanboy. A mate had an R93 here in the UK years ago. I think that it might have one of the first in the UK. I used it on occasion, I wasn't a fan TBH. I thought a precision bit of kit, but lacked "soul"

He re-loaded without incident for years. The most impressive thing I saw was also quite funny now. We had just loaded his car for a stalking trip and just reversed out of my concrete drive when we ran over something, not with one wheel but two. We looked at each other and before I knew it it drove forward over the obstacle again. When we got out to investigate, he found he had run over his R93 in its soft gun slip. He was very upset. Upon inspection there seemed to be no damage and when we checked zero, it was dead on.

Fast forard to today and at least 4 full custom rifles later with over £15,000 spent searching for "the one" rifle I thought I'd give an R8 a go. The custom rifles were very accurate. However they all had a very narrow "sweet spot" I remember burning through 400 rounds in load development on just one rifle. Considering it was a 270 that was a fair bit of barrel life. It was also very easy to miss the sweet spot when producing the ammunition with the result being a random peppering of holes on the paper. The R8 has
never shot worse than 1moa with any ammo I've fed it so far.

Yesterday I went out to use some Elcho 17 (got loads) with 130gn bullets. I had no data apart from QL. I fired 12 rounds start to finish. The last batch went into one hole, gave 3060fps with an ES 17fps. No pressure signs and QL estimates a working pressure of around 55000ish psi, job done. Fanboy? You bet.

Atb
 
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I think the thing that raises eyebrows is the changes made to the locking mechanism from the R93 to R8, which has never been explained why.
 
I'm an engineer by trade, though not a mechanical engineer so I've no specialist knowledge of rifle design but that doesn't stop me wanting all the details before I make a decision, so you can imagine I looked into this before buying my R93 and concluded that there had been some "accidents" but that I could find no evidence of a design flaw in the rifle, in fact some of the "accidents" indicated just how far you had to go to blow a Blaser up, and this is supported by the video I posted earlier where the Blaser is clearly seen to be stronger than many other popular rifles. The few, maybe even one as I can't remember now, detailed reports of accidents involving Blasers that I read gave me greater confidence in the rifle rather than less as the mistakes made were significant and resulted in the most extreme operating conditions and the rifle performed well beyond normal conditions and most likely gave lots of indication to the user that it was operating well beyond its design limits before it let go.

I also watched the posts of the people who were making a big deal of the "Blaser blow ups" and concluded that they were not, generally speaking, reliable sources of information and, indeed, some seemed to almost be building part of their life around an "anti-Blaser" campaign. This is perfectly reasonable and they are entitled to do this, but I didn't find any information to lead me to consider that they were a reliable source, or more reliable than the design engineers, laws of physics etc. I'm not dismissing well founded concerns or strongly held opinions, but I am saying that I found they had no place in my decision making when it came to choosing a rifle.

The other point to consider is that everything will fail and everything ever built has something that will be the first part to fail. Some are saying that with Blaser this may be the bolt which will then come straight back at the user and this makes Blasers bad compared to other rifles. Then you do a bit of research and find that there is evidence of other rifles blowing up, and the bolt coming back at the shooter and there is actually video of it happening on the internet! If you go to all the trouble to blow something up it should come as no surprise to find that some of the bits fly off in directions you'd hoped they wouldn't.

So, all I can conclude is that having a rifle blow up is a bad thing and has the potential to end very badly. Blasers are very well engineered and constructed and so handle pressure and a failure better than most but if you push your luck then even a Blaser will blow your head off. Sometimes rifles, including but not limited to Blasers, fail and the bolt comes back at the shooter and this is very bad indeed. Logically the only information gained from my conclusions was that the only way to avoid blowing a rifle up is either not to own one, no matter who makes it, or to be careful when using it. I decided that the latter approach was for me and bought a Blaser.

very good post ca
 

drl sadly I can't read or speak German perhaps you can translate and pm to me. Although as willie says for someone looking to improve their English yours is better than mine. I'm also far from a fanboy my friend I don't own a blaser yet, I'm asking for people's views and many members are kindly posting their thoughts with views both good and bad this is what it's all about a sensible discussion on an open forum not resorting to statements like "don't be a fanboy" which to be honest is slightly childish.
 
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Caorach,

Excellent post!

Like any bit of mechanical kit just don't take it into the "red zone" and expect everything to be tickety boo! Or like every bit of mechanical kit ever made it will break......cars, wheels, jet engines, autoclaves...Everything goes bang if its over loaded, over revved, over run, over stoked!

I have a variety of rifles from German, Finnish, UK custom made but my "everyday" "go to" rifle and first out of the cabinet is the R93. I simply don't buy the conspiracy theories and internet scaremongering that these rifles attract. It may lack "soul" and not seep shooting history from its every pore but it is functional, well designed, well engineered, accurate, reliable and puts lumps of lead into a sub moa hole every day of the week. I have 4 friends who use R93s and as far as I remember they all have their faces, noses and fingers.

Mind you I'm reluctant to use that WWII surplus Russian 8 x 57 ammo in it now!!! :rofl:

Dorset FanBoy
 
Wow, for someone who only joined two days ago and who, according to their introduction is "still young and looking to learn the ways and means of other hunters. And also to improve my english skills." can I just say how impressed I am with those English skills :tiphat:

With words like "fanboy" in your vocabulary you really don''t need to improve at all :thumb:

Well the Oxford dictionary defines a fanboy as obsessive, and i think that describes the point, that these people try to dismiss every reasonable doubt by any means.

For someone still so young to know about the Soviets and their 8x57 ammo is equally impressive. Where did you hear about that? It triggered my memory, as I'd never even heard about it until I read it in post #9 in this thread: Another Blaser



Remarkable!

As information is generally available in our days, you might also have a look around the internet...

As a matter of fact, I learned about this first when I had a discussion with a soldier and a engineer at the Wittloge 300m range.
The soldier latet posted the same thing on WildundHund forums, where edi is also registered.


P.S.: I'd be willing to take that fanboy back and by leaving the explanation i gave above. Do not want to make the discussion around words.
 
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To me the only obsessive Blaser posts seem to come from people who don't own one yet slag them off based on hearsay, myth or ignorance.

The internet is full of rubbish yet because it's there, people give it more credence than it warrants. Being called a Fanboy is usually the first indication that the debater has nothing else of value to add, so reverts to name calling.

In the video a Remington disintegrates. I find that alarming, but then again it was way outside its design operating envelope. The anti Blaser crowds should be screaming bloody murder, yet seem strangely quiet. I suspect that despite what they post on various sites they know full well that everything has design limits, go beyond and "here be dragons"

Atb
 
Blasers are very well engineered and constructed and so handle pressure and a failure better than most but if you push your luck then even a Blaser will blow your head off. Sometimes rifles, including but not limited to Blasers, fail and the bolt comes back at the shooter and this is very bad indeed. Logically the only information gained from my conclusions was that the only way to avoid blowing a rifle up is either not to own one, no matter who makes it, or to be careful when using it. I decided that the latter approach was for me and bought a Blaser.

Ok since you are an engineer:
Blaserverschluss-2.webp

What could happen with a combination of primer blow out and faulty head space?
 
I think many are missing some points here.
Blaser designed a rifle that can and has injured people badly when it lets go. This is a fact. It actually does not matter what led to the accidents, the important thing is that the action is made in such a way that the bolt can (and does) fly out the back.
Since early bolt action rifles in the late 1800's large emphasis was put in designing an action with several safety features so that the bolt does not fly out the back. This is nothing new. Like a pressure vessel, if it bursts...let it burst in a possibly safe manner which is only a matter of design. Blaser have failed with the R93. There is no general Blaser bashing only bashing of the R93 because it is not a safe design and many are wondering how Blaser is getting away with it. Apart from this model I think Blaser is a very innovative company and service is great whenever I needed to call them.

Another point, some get stuck up in trying to understand the design flaw of the R93...but this is not our job, I am not even slightly interested what the fault is...Blaser should fix it...not we.

Yes I have hunted with a 93, in one case in Germany, the owner told me to slam the bolt shut while muttering..."you never know with these rifles...."
edi
 
The soldier latet posted the same thing on WildundHund forums, where edi is also registered.

No kidding??

Truly remarkable that these coincidences keep occurring.

Here's another for you - in the two days since you've joined, all your posts are in this thread.
 
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I have only contributed to this thread so far, so what? I have only been here for 1 day:-D

And in contrast to you, whos only contribution so far has been to make up things, i'd say that i have brought at least some valuable contribution to this discussion.
 
I know of 7 accidents that have happened and can be verified via news articles. And also a recall on earlier models.

In the end you just have to acknowledge that there have been accidents with the R93, there will be more coming and it is in your hands if the next potential victim is going to be you.

How many accidents involving the D99?
 
Sorry Edi, I'm just not buying these scare stories.

This point has been raised, discussed and done to death, time and time and time again.

Do you really think Blaser would allow an unsafe design to circulate in the hands of people knowing there is a chance of serious injury? If there was the slightest possibility of serious harm or injury they would simply recall all rifles and either fix or offer replacement R8s. Are you seriously suggesting they are happy to allow the litigious American market to run the risk of blowing their faces off?

Once I've seen the proven evidence , preferably unadulterated photographs taken by Lord Lucan, of Elvis standing by the pile the wrecked Blaser's that were used by the Freemasons, or Opus Dei, to shoot JFK in the same hanger where they mocked up the Moon landings next to the alien spacecraft in Area 51 , then I will give it serious consideration....until then I will happily use the rifle.

Anyway...can't chat...have a new 6.5 x 55 barrel I need to put on my 93!

DT
 
There was a bloke who loaded a magnum cartridge with pistol powder and, after firing quite a few of them, managed to get the bolt to come back and hit him in the face. That I know of he never sued Blaser, never demonstrated any liability and never got any legal representation to attempt to prove any liability on Blaser's part. He is also the only evidence I could find on the internet of anyone ever having a Blaser blow up.

For safety reasons Blasers are now no longer sold to people who are that stupid.

Watch and learn...




Here's a bit about the video. Google translate.

It was in 2007 that Testfakta tested hunting rifle before the hunt. Sweden's approximately 300,000 hunters were expected to then shoot about 75,000 moose.
Testfakta have examined the quality of eight ordinary hunting rifle and what distinguishes the models. The test has been carried out by the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV), which primarily works to provide the Swedish Armed Forces with weapons and other materiel. The practical tests were conducted over three days last summer at FMV's test facility outside Karlsborg. Hunting weapons were tested in four parts: precision in normal temperature and cooling, corrosion testing, pull-out test and burst test.


The most dramatic outcome gave the bursting test. For example, if a small stone or a bullet stuck in the barrel of the gun shooter risk being harmed if he or she fires the weapon. To simulate such an accident hit test personnel a bullet in their gun barrel. Weapons screw was then fixed in a special vise before they were fired.
To make it easier to assess how the various guns behaved filmed FMV's testing personnel test the high-speed camera.
The pictures show how two of the tested weapons - Browning and Remington - explode and shatter.
- When you see the pictures you understand how it looks and how the injured man can be, says Börje Kindbom.


What would happen to the shooter if this should happen in reality?
- Sagittarius left hand was severely damaged and the shaft is broken. Splinters in the eyes involve risks blindness. Probably survives shooter shrapnel in his neck if he or she does not have extra luck, says Börje Kindbom.


The other six rifles passed the test with a deformed pipe. Positive was to bolt on all arms held up, which can lead to serious injury to the shooter's head.
Anders Toresson is CEO of Torsbohandels representing Remington in Sweden. He is surprised by the results and questions the how FMV has designed the test.
- There is an international testorganisaton, CIP, whose test standard all manufacturers of dignity comply. If something happens with a weapon will be sent to the CIP, which will assess whether something is wrong. I do not know which system FMV has used, but if this test is to have any basis in reality should force sent down to CIP and then FMV may explain how they proceeded, says Anders Toresson.


Is there any danger in using this weapon?
- No, absolutely not, no more risk than any other brand. And how likely is it that two of the world's largest arms manufacturers would dare send out a product that can not handle a burst shooting? says Anders Toresson.


Borje Kindbom, what about the objections?
- I can not answer how the CIP does, but including Mannlicher in Austria does basically the same way as we did. There are thousands of tests to do, this is the result of what we did and the test was the same for everyone, he says.


Testfakta also searched Representative for Browning in Sweden, but despite repeated contact, no comment was provided.


Overall winner of the test was the cheapest weapon, Howa 1500 in trading costs around 5,900 kronor. Test's most expensive weapons, Blaser R93 which costs about 26 000, ended up in second place.
- The test shows that the cheapest weapon also is the best. It is particularly gratifying that the Howa 1500 did not win because other weapons were particularly bad, but because it is a very good hunting rifle, says Börje Kindbom.
- In contrast, says the test nothing about how good it is after a few years of use, or how the weapons feel.


A great hunting rifle must be easy to meet with, even when the animal moves. To get such a fair-precision testing as possible created a special push bench that the weapons were snapped in.
One day before the test firing was closed rifles into a 20 degrees warm room. Before the test was calibrated scopes. Because precision weapons can be affected by the choice of ammunition samples was shot älgstudsarna with three different types of ammunition.
- We used the ammunition types that are most common on the market. The result of the test firings were not affected by the choice of munitions, says Börje Kindbom.


Precision Shooting was conducted in three parts.
- In the first part we have been so close to current hunting conditions as possible, including taking into account what is a normal number of shots fired, the recoil and the like.
- The second part was hot shooting. Problems with hot shooting occurs mainly during training at the shooting range. In connection with the regular hunting shoot no more than two or three shots in succession and then can not keep the weapon become so hot that it is affected.


Why did you do the test?
- For the same reasons we examined how the weapons behave after lying in a cooling chamber at minus 40 degrees in 16 hours. By testing how guns can handle the extremes, we also know how well they can withstand normal conditions. Our exam is tough, but not unreasonably tough. Similarly, we test including munitions for the armed forces with great results. One in precision part became overall winner Howa. Finally ended Remington.


To find out how good the weapons resists rust got the stand for two hours in salt fog and then for 15 hours in a 40 degrees warm place with 95 percent humidity, which corresponds to about 14 days in the coastal environment without weapons care. At least roasted test expensive weapons, Blaser R93. Most roasted Anotonio Zoli luxury.


The entire test was performed by the test leader Borje Kindbom and his colleagues at FMV.
- Overall we were four at FMV who worked with the test. All are experts in weapons, even if it is only me who are hunters.


Why then?
- We wanted to reduce the risk that persons responsible for the actual test would have preconceptions about different brands virtues, says Börje Kindbom.
RELATED ARTICLES
Photo Reportage from the test of hunting rifle


Sako Range ammo gave the best accuracy


AMMUNITION
Test shootings showed that six out of eight tested weapons had the best accuracy / repeatability with Sako Range ammunition.


The test took place at FMV's test firing facility in Karlsborg during the period June 26 to 29 in 2007.


During test firing was used rifle scopes of the brand Swarovski to enlarge 3-9 x 36. The shooting distance was 100 meters.
At the test firings were used ammunition of brands Sako Range, Norma Oryx and Sako Hammerhead.
In precision shooting at normal temperature was shot two series of four shots of each type of ammunition. After each series was noted the distance between the two outermost shots in the hit. The shorter the distance, the better the accuracy.
Firearm accuracy and repeatability is affected by temperature changes. To test how much the weapons affected by heat hot shot those by a series of four times four shots were shot in quick succession. Afterwards the measured distance between the two outermost shots in each series.
To test how the weapons are affected by the cold they were placed in a cooling chamber with a temperature of minus 40 degrees. After 16 hours the arms out. Races cleaned before ante mortem inspection, and click tested. Then was shot four shot series. The distance between the two outermost shots measured. All weapons functioned without comment in extreme cold, however, affected the accuracy.
To test excerpts mechanism locked an empty core fixed in the cartridge position using a nut. Using a power meter, tested at the power extraction mechanism released. The measurement was terminated at 100 kilos. Best extensible mechanism had the weapon that was between 60-80 kg. For 60 kg release mechanism for easily and over 80 kg, it may be difficult to get the mechanism to release the sleeve. All weapons except Antonio Zoli passed the test without extract mechanism in the breech broke.
In the bursting test simulated a situation where a avlossad ball stuck in the race, then the subsequent shot is blocked and bursts or, at best, deform the barrel. A bullet was wrapped in 10 cm in the race from the cartridge position. The weapon is secured in a vise and fired. The process is filmed with a high speed camera (4000 frames per second) in order to assess the shrapnel and explosive effect.
Two of the tested weapons exploded. Others passed the test with only the deformed pipe as a result.
In total grade is the result of the different test phases weighted together according to the following: Precision (which results in normal shooting accounts for 60 percent) 40 percent, pipsprängning 30 percent, extendable mechanism 15 percent and corrosion resistance 15 percent.
 
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Sorry Edi, I'm just not buying these scare stories.

This point has been raised, discussed and done to death, time and time and time again.

Do you really think Blaser would allow an unsafe design to circulate in the hands of people knowing there is a chance of serious injury? If there was the slightest possibility of serious harm or injury they would simply recall all rifles and either fix or offer replacement R8s. Are you seriously suggesting they are happy to allow the litigious American market to run the risk of blowing their faces off?

Once I've seen the proven evidence , preferably unadulterated photographs taken by Lord Lucan, of Elvis standing by the pile the wrecked Blaser's that were used by the Freemasons, or Opus Dei, to shoot JFK in the same hanger where they mocked up the Moon landings next to the alien spacecraft in Area 51 , then I will give it serious consideration....until then I will happily use the rifle.

Anyway...can't chat...have a new 6.5 x 55 barrel I need to put on my 93!

DT

I think Blaser cannot afford to replace the R93's. Ever thought of that?
anyway I don't have anything to do with them and can choose to stay away from the rifle. We decided against making aftermarket parts for the R93 for the reasons mentioned.
edi
 
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