Utectok
Well-Known Member
Wait for lift to hostelry? Lol
Block and tackle rigging diagram
- Thread starter karamoja
- Start date
geoffw
Well-Known Member
Why would you hock at the ankle? I've never heard of it before- it would be harder work to make the hole and it would require a higher beam for lifting to give ground clearance, so I'm genuinely interested in who teaches this and why.
geoffw
Well-Known Member
@Freeforester1) Find tussock or nearby mound; gravity is your friend
2) Perform gralloch, permitting blood and any fluid to drain through the gullet;
3 Transport beast back to larder;
4) Larder beast, and clean up;
5) Leave larder light on so that the fellow with the (mental) ‘block’ and (odd, poorly running) tackle can find his way back.
6) Upon returning to larder, use remaining days of weekend cleaning grass, heather etc out of central line cut.
6b) use 7 gallons of water washing down hide to wash out blood
7) Clean exposed leg joints which have miraculously hoovered up peat.
8) Rehang beast in larder, watch remaining water drip clear onto floor, remember that gravity is neutral, but can be your friend, all whilst wondering whether introducing hanging into the process earlier might be beneficial.
8b) Reclean larder floor
9) Remember that you're in Scotland and all your trees have been eaten by deer, so tree hanging not an option.
10) Book osteopath for Monday on account of lower back pain brought on by crouching over beast whilst gralloching
11) [optional] Book chiropractor for Tuesday on account of dead lifting beast from ground after gralloching- wish that you'd been able to lower beast direct onto tailgate/quad. (revisit point 9).
12) Reflect and vow to buy Donington deer hoist and swing 'em straight into the tray, placed on the tailgate, next time.
13) Take call from fellow with block and tackle to find that he used his spare time to take another brace.
geoffw
Well-Known Member
Donington Deer Supplies- folding gambrel. Why would you fanny around with anything else?
Hornet 6
Well-Known Member
But save time by chucking the pulleys away with the rope, then you can start with something worth using.
The one I use for picking smaller stationary engine up is a 4 to one purchase made from yacht fitting (harken), even I can pick a 350 lb engine uo from the floor and lower on to a bench.
Neil.
What you're referring to as the hock is actually the animal's ankle. The lower joint, just above the hoof, that you're calling the ankle, is the pastern. It is common practice to hang by the tendons at the back of the pastern in situations where animals are to be skinned in the hanging position immediately after slaughter (eg, sheep). That way you can skin right over the hock without meathooks getting in the way, and without introducing any contamination by making a cut into a part that will remain on the carcass. The lower legs can be cut off after.
The only reason for hanging by the hock (as is common practice with deer) is if you're hanging the animal in skin for maturation, and you need to reduce the overall length to fit it in the chiller.
Incidentally, the animal's knee is much higher up. The kneecap is that little egg-shaped bit of cartlidge that you have to remove from the thick flank (that's the rugby-ball shaped muscle bundle that you get when breaking down the haunch into individual cuts).
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Clamcleat CL260 Line-Lok. I selected this for 4mm paracord, it takes 2-5mm cord. For thicker cord, the CL271 takes 4-8mm.
Line-Lok® guy line tensioners Explains how to use them, typically for guy ropes on tents etc. The harder you pull on them the tighter they grip. They don't slip. Boat owners will be very familiar with the Clamcleat.
If unsure about the strength of the plastic version, choose instead the aluminium Aero Cleat. Search results for: 'aero' Which of course are much heavier (CL271 weighs 28g, CL827-18 side entry weighs 59g) and a lot more expensive. You would have to use a side entry version, e.g. the CL828-77 Aero cleat with CL277 Side-Entry Micros for 3-4mm cord, or e.g. CL827-18 Aero cleat with CL218 Mk1 Side-entry Racing Junior for 4-6mm
Rather than use them that way, simply tie it to the free end of the hauling cord. Create a knotted loop in the cord just below it to use as a safety feature in case it does slip, or break, I'll explain that later.
Wrap it around base of tree trunk etc. a few times or if say a low branch, use a clove-hitch to secure. Leaving enough slack to be able to pick it up when ready to use it. Now you have the cleat available to drop the other part of the haul cord into once you have pulled up the beast, thereby preventing it from falling back down again.
If this makes sense,
Line-Lok tied to free end of haul cord > wrap around tree trunk or clove hitch to low branch to secure > bundle of haul cord on the ground > main section of haul cord in use.
Once beast suspended, walk over to the cleat keeping hold of the haul cord and pop it into the cleat. Now you can let go. Also put a hitch through the loop I mentioned earlier, to make sure if somehow it popped out of the cleat, or slipped, or the cleat broke, it would be bypassed, whist you are working on the animal.
These plastic Clamcleats are actually quite strong.
For exactly this reason. I got high praise from my guide, also a DSC2 AW, for doing just this when I had a muntjac to suspend in the field. The branch was higher than ideal, If hocked at the knee I would have struggled to lift it all the way up, it would have been much higher than usual.
No gambrel BTW, just a length of cord. When using just a bit of cord, the minimalist way, I like to keep it tied as close to the branch as possible. Tied in two places, spread apart the right amount. It also does not require hocking if you simply tie the rope securely around the ankle. If hocked above the knee you have to thread your grubby bit of rope through the holes, which is a palaver and possibly a hygiene concern.
Heavy. Costly. Probably unnecessary.
@Klenchblaize has shown us his minimalist setup, in actual use. Just a cord bridle. But then he goes bushcraft to find a suitable stick for the brace, cuts it to length etc. My suggestion with the lightweight tent pole instead was simply to save the time doing the bushcraft bit, even if a suitable stick was to be found. There should be no bending force on the pole, it is purely under compression.
The whole supposition of having a folding pocket gambrel is that you intend to do a suspended gralloch in the field. But somehow are going to be packing everything required just in your pockets. If instead you are carrying a roe sack, might as well just put an ordinary gambrel into it.
But why have a steel pocket gambrel anyway ? Can achieve the same result with just an inverted vee cord (preferably dyneema) bridle and my tent pole idea. Much lighter, and cheaper.
I did buy an ordinary non-folding gambrel, roe/muntjac size, but have never used it, always managed with just a bit of cord. Likewise was gifted an old large gambrel suitable for fallow, even red, but can't actually see me using that until I have my own larder, which isn't going to happen. Might get used in the garage though. But I prefer not to contemplate using the garage, it is packed full of other stuff. The car lives on the drive.
Anyone tried this instead?
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geoffw
Well-Known Member
Height. Ok, I see that, but I use my length of (drag) webbing over the high branch to amend to working height.
I wouldn't put too much stock on every AW's every word! I've seen enough DS1 (let along DSC2) instant fail behaviour from a number of them.
A stick (that's potentially been on the floor), over an open belly cavity= bark contamination/ insect contamination risk.
Folding gambrel- I speak as someone that can bring a vehicle in, so I don't have your requirement to manpack everything in, but then again, given the c/s weights you're talking about, can I assume you're using some veh to extract anyway? (In which case this weight thing is all pretty irrelevant.)
Less expensive than the F1 rated cord some folks are using! Cord gets dirty and then requires washing. Easier to dishwash a gambrel...
Tent pole length- sounds like a roesack portage solution to me... just use one S-hook through one hock instead perhaps? A little lopsided but perfectly doable.
Chacun a son gout...
Don't use the ordinary 3mm 550 (notionally strength in pounds, if its the real thing) stuff of greater or lesser quality. Why I have selected 4mm 620lb test nine strand commercial grade paracord. That is far more than the weight of a person (I weigh about 140 lbs), so I'm never ever going to be able to break it. Nor raise a deer weighing more than 280 lbs with a 2:1 tackle. Even if my hand could withstand that cord being wrapped around it. Theoretically, might also end up in the air and the deer on the ground if something went slightly wrong.
The actual tension in the haul cord is the weight of the deer divided by the mechanical advantage. With a minimalist 2:1 setup my 620lb test commercial paracord could raise up to 1,240 lbs before snapping. With 6:1, up to 3,720 lbs. !!! Another reason why I see no point in using yacht rope, never mind dyneema.
The potential problem I see in your setup is that inverted vee bridle that you use with your stick. Being triangular, and taking the full weight of the deer, the tension in that cord is a lot higher than anywhere else.
This could be the place where a bit of dyneema is worth the extra. Was that where yours broke ? However you can't just tie knots in dyneema. To use it properly you need to know how to splice it using a fid. Dyneema is unbelievably strong, light, and unstretchable by comparison with anything else.
E.g Marlow EXCEL CONTROL 4mm AVERAGE BREAK LOAD 478 KG MINIMUM BREAK LOAD 460 KG
It would actually be more hygienic to hang by the pastern rather than the hock, because then the knife and hooks are only going through a part of the animal that's going to be chucked away. The only reason for not doing so is height, as far as I can see.
Have a look at some photos of pig carcasses hanging in an abattoir - they're all hung by the tendons at the back of the pasterns, with the trotters left on. Never hung by the hock.
No we are not.
I've helped out in a park cull, a big one, where the stalkers were bringing in the deer exactly as they fell. No more than half an our, maybe 45 minutes later.
Into the larder where I and the team then did everything, finishing up with fully inspected carcases ready for the game dealer to collect.
First step, deer on larder floor. Crack off legs at flat joints, inspect hooves. Discard. Hock, insert gambrel, lower hoist, raise, move over onto sliding rail system. Slide to back of larder, commence full suspended gralloch opened all the way down. and remove head. Inspect gralloch, and head lymph nodes (I did every one). Fill out tag and larder record book. Scrub up again, clean knives, and move on to the next one.
Each of us was a trained hunter, as were the stalkers. We each signed the estate's tags with our individual hunters number, and name. As is correct.
Suffice it to say that I have gralloched, inspected and put into the food chain many more deer than I have shot myself. In a professional environment, under the watchful eye of hugely experienced people, who worked three or four times faster than me. They of course were being paid for their efforts, unlike me. TBH it would have been cheeky to work at their speed, even if I was capable of doing so.
Read my post again. I want to get the deer as close to the branch as possible to minimise swinging about. When suspended in two places by my bit of cord (no gambrel.
This was not the case with my guide. I wont explain further. You are so far away with this generalisation that it's not even amusing.
You are still failing to understand most of the relevant considerations. Key point: by skinning and quartering the fully gralloched deer, in the field, I, or I and a companion sharing the loads, can pack it out far more easily than trying to drag the whole thing all the way back to where my vehicle could get to. Then take it home for personal use.
Were I to want to keep it whole, as primary produce, to sell, that would be a different matter.
No. But I did suggest the same back in post #19. A ratchet strap generates its mechanical advantage by the ratio of the length of the handle to the circumference of the drum. As the drum fill up it gets lower and lower. The maximum length of the strap is limited to that which will fit on the drum. They are of no use in this scenario, e.g. lifting up into a tree, where the ratchet would have to be above the deer. Unless you were going to carry a stepladder with you. That widget is for using with some sort of suspension frame, e.g. a pole clamped onto a towbar, or some such other contrivance.Anyone tried this instead?
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Stepladder to operate the ratchet? If the suspension point was out of reach couldn't you just hook the gizmo on the other way up? So the ratchet device is attached to the gambrel and is easily within reach and goes up with the deer...never higher off the ground than the gambrel?
Even with it mounted above it only needs to be set just higher than the height the gambrel ends up and that is within arm reach.
Alan
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That was my point. If its a big deer it will be taller than me, stretched out. But I am only 5'6 3/4 " tall. Hence the need for a step stool or ladder.
geoffw
Well-Known Member
Yes, or rather, something similar. Unless the point of balance was perfect (ie clear of the trunk/high seat which might unbalance/cant the carcass) then the cord was prone to sliding across the drum and eventually folding on itself, resulting in the drum filling prematurely- and an incomplete lift.Anyone tried this instead?
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geoffw
Well-Known Member
Are the trotters left on in the ageing? Or is that irrelevant for pork?
I wasn't specific enough and used "larder" too generally. We all agree that it's a standard to remove lower legs in the larder, but I'm thinking about the ageing process in the chiller rather than the processing in the larder and, starting with those end principles in mind, working that back up the processing chain.
Rails are set up for cattle I assume (?), so that wouldn't preclude cool room ageing pigs/lambs from the pastern, but I think we don't. Therefore it's not for that reason, hence I assume hygiene, ie removing hooves that will carry muck?
Looking forward to learning more...
geoffw
Well-Known Member
@Sharpie I did indeed incorrectly use the term larder in too general a sense and should have been more specific- my understanding is hooves off before entering cold storage ie off during processing, since you don't want mud/bacterial load etc in the storage area. Your thoughts?
"This was not the case with my guide. I wont explain further. You are so far away with this generalisation that it's not even amusing."
It intentionally and specifically wasn't a generalisation, don't look to be offended- "on every AW's every word". I've met good ones with much to teach and poor ones with some refreshers to learn.
It's never about the title, it's about the application.
Understood and fair play on the other points of ingenuity, as I said "chacun a son gout"
The trotters are left on a pig right up to the point that the carcass lands on the butcher's chopping block. Having said that, they're clean, having been through the scalding tank.
Most animals are not hung in skin as deer are. Sheep etc are skinned immediately upon slaughter. If they're hung by the hind legs for bleeding and / or skinning then it will be by the lower tendons, not by the hock. They're only hung by the hock once they've reached the point of being a skinned carcass.
For deer, which are hung in skin, it would be advantageous to hang by the lower tendons rather than the hock prior to skinning (ie, throughout the maturation period, in situations where the animal is being hung in-skin), but lack of height often precludes this, plus game dealers wouldn't want to have to pay for the weight of the lower leg. Similarly, it's much better to hang deer in the chiller with the head on (because it keeps the neck straight, making for easier skinning and butchery), but again height is a limiting factor, and custom.
