Blood to train tracking dog

[Mihangel Dan Pren]

Is it effective to use the juice / myoglobin from my frozen meat packets to train my dog to track? Or does it need to be the fresh blood from the animal…if the latter, is collecting and freezing an option?

Thank you

 

[sh1kar]

Is it effective to use the juice / myoglobin from my frozen meat packets to train my dog to track? Or does it need to be the fresh blood from the animal…if the latter, is collecting and freezing an option?

Thank you

Latter and yes

 

[Selous]

Collect the blood and feet when you are stalking, it will form clots but sieve them out when you get home and store in small squeeze bottles. Keep the feet along with the blood and freeze them together so you can use the correct blood with the correct feet.

 

[VSS]

Keep the feet along with the blood and freeze them together so you can use the correct blood with the correct feet.

That's just the kind of thing I'd never have thought of, but it makes perfect sense now you mention it.

 

[Moray]

Is it effective to use the juice / myoglobin from my frozen meat packets to train my dog to track? Or does it need to be the fresh blood from the animal…if the latter, is collecting and freezing an option?

Thank you

Collect the blood and feet when you are stalking, it will form clots but sieve them out when you get home and store in small squeeze bottles. Keep the feet along with the blood and freeze them together so you can use the correct blood with the correct feet.

Hi
Collect the blood asap from a shot beast .
As Selous says remove any clots .
I also add salt to the blood before freezing.
Not 100% sure what the salt does .but this is was what I was advised by Chris Gray over 25 years ago . So I have always used it .
Regards Willie

 

[rem284]

Clots can go in to the collection, you just need to put it through the blender. Just make sure the blender is washed or questions could be asked when the cream of mushroom soup has a pink tinge to it.

 

[Bowland blades]

You can actually purchase dried deer blood , just add water ! You do not want to use loads , I tried that when i first started training for it two dogs gone in the past .

 

[Mihangel Dan Pren]

You can actually purchase dried deer blood , just add water ! You do not want to use loads , I tried that when i first started training for it two dogs gone in the past .

Thank you I’ve seen this I wondered if if would work okay

 

[Bowland blades]

Thank you I’ve seen this I wondered if if would work okay

I had a GWP at the time i was training ( it seemed very convenient) and it certainly followed the trail. Now i just take them out because there is more to learn than following a blood trail

 

[Jagare]

No you don't need the hooves and blood from the same animal. Here we can buy frozen cow blood from the super market a small pot watered down will do too train a dog. I've used a roe hoof to lay a trail and the next trail used a boar or even moose hoof. Use the blood very sparingly and don't go dragging great lumps of deer skin to lay a trail. It's not some black art and training a dog to track to a very good standard is one of the easiest training forms you can teach a dog.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

No you don't need the hooves and blood from the same animal. Here we can buy frozen cow blood from the super market a small pot watered down will do too train a dog. I've used a roe hoof to lay a trail and the next trail used a boar or even moose hoof. Use the blood very sparingly and don't go dragging great lumps of deer skin to lay a trail. It's not some black art and training a dog to track to a very good standard is one of the easiest training forms you can teach a dog.

I agree, I have also used dried pig blood, in the past, when I ran out of the real thing. No doubt real blood is better.

I also agree that teaching tracking is easy and not a dark art. However I would also add that, getting a dog to ignore distractions along a trail is not easy - especially a lot of game scent over an old cold trail.

 

[Jagare]

The other thing is that when training a dog to track, STFU. Keep the encouragement to the minimum. No clicking or other strange sounds emanating from your mouth. Save the encouragement for when the dog finds the hoof at the end of the track. By Keeping quiet you can spend your time observing how the dog works the scent. I've been amazedmany times at how the dogs nose works.

 

[cjm1066]

Bits of liver dragged on a string, a lot easier to use if you miss your breakfast.

 

[Siggy]

Yes and no.

When you train a dog to track you actually you train a dog to follow a human scent mixed with deer or other blood scent - you physically can’t remove the human component from artificial trails no matter what kit you use. This is why dogs have so much trouble when the stalker walks through the shot site - they have been trained to follow trails consisting of human and blood scent!!!

That said, the more you use the real thing as part of an artificial trail the easier the transition to “live” trails is going to be.

So in my opinion y all means start off getting a dog on any sort of trail you like, but at some point transition to blood and hoof deer trails.

 

[Totsy]

It doesn’t need to be the same blood from the same animal as the hoofs you are using. But best practice would be to use the same animals blood/hoof. I know people who do both.
Hoofs are more important. There is a relationship between length/age track, environment and amount of times you can use the same cleaves. Fresh is best, but I have used the same fallow hoofs frozen/thawed 4x with no difference in the dogs ability to track.
Also think about the situations when you can’t track the animal yourself, it’s usually because there is no blood trail. There is a hell of a lot more hair/extracellular fluid/tissue/bone from an exit wound than blood. If you get along to the excellent UKDTR best practice days you’ll be amazed at what’s collected on a 10x10m tarpaulin.
Also the dog is tracking disturbed ground/crushed vegetation caused by the deers fleeing of the scene.
You will train the dog to key into ‘the’ animal rather than ‘any’ animal faster if you train with hoofs from the hearding species, irrespective of if you only shoot muntjac.

FWIW I use hoofs with mixed deer species blood collected from the 3 species I shoot. I have a freezer dedicated to it .

 

[Jagare]

Yes and no.

When you train a dog to track you actually you train a dog to follow a human scent mixed with deer or other blood scent - you physically can’t remove the human component from artificial trails no matter what kit you use. This is why dogs have so much trouble when the stalker walks through the shot site - they have been trained to follow trails consisting of human and blood scent!!!

That said, the more you use the real thing as part of an artificial trail the easier the transition to “live” trails is going to be.

So in my opinion y all means start off getting a dog on any sort of trail you like, but at some point transition to blood and hoof deer trails.

You make a very good point about human scent. I've seen several times that the dog was also following my scent on a trail even on a 24 hour track. I laid a 24 hour track for my kopov.Where I started the track I sat on a tree stump to put on the tracking shoes I always start the dog quite a bit away from the trail start so he has to work to find it. Started off the dog and he worked the area till he found the stump where I had sat, he had a good sniff of the top ofthe stump them away we went on the trail. Another time I laid the trail through a area of self seeded birch that were about 75cm high. When the dog came to these birch he stopped and sniffed one of the saplings that had brushed against my leg. Amazing what you learn by observering the dog when it's tracking

 

[Jagare]

It doesn’t need to be the same blood from the same animal as the hoofs you are using. But best practice would be to use the same animals blood/hoof. I know people who do both.
Hoofs are more important. There is a relationship between length/age track, environment and amount of times you can use the same cleaves. Fresh is best, but I have used the same fallow hoofs frozen/thawed 4x with no difference in the dogs ability to track.
Also think about the situations when you can’t track the animal yourself, it’s usually because there is no blood trail. There is a hell of a lot more hair/extracellular fluid/tissue/bone from an exit wound than blood. If you get along to the excellent UKDTR best practice days you’ll be amazed at what’s collected on a 10x10m tarpaulin.
Also the dog is tracking disturbed ground/crushed vegetation caused by the deers fleeing of the scene.
You will train the dog to key into ‘the’ animal rather than ‘any’ animal faster if you train with hoofs from the hearding species, irrespective of if you only shoot muntjac.

FWIW I use hoofs with mixed deer species blood collected from the 3 species I shoot. I have a freezer dedicated to it .

My Kopov would track a fair bit faster on a trail laid with a boar hoof than one laid with a roe.
When I did the tracking test with him he did the first and second test comfortably within the 20 mini allowed. The third test was laid with a boar hoof. It was +30c that day and the dog cleared the test, 600mtrs in 12 minutes. The judges critique was that he was going to give the dog a 2nd but as he cleared the test without fault he got a 1st. To say I was sweating at the end of the track is a bit of a understatement.

 

[Totsy]

My Kopov would track a fair bit faster on a trail laid with a boar hoof than one laid with a roe.
When I did the tracking test with him he did the first and second test comfortably within the 20 mini allowed. The third test was laid with a boar hoof. It was +30c that day and the dog cleared the test, 600mtrs in 12 minutes. The judges critique was that he was going to give the dog a 2nd but as he cleared the test without fault he got a 1st. To say I was sweating at the end of the track is a bit of an understatement.

30degC…tough scenting conditions for any dog. We have previously failed a 20hr test in the same heat.

 

[Jagare]

30degC…tough scenting conditions for any dog. We have previously failed a 20hr test in the same heat.

If I recall right the track was over the 12 hour mark to do the tracking test. I thought he would struggle with it being so warm but he went full speed on the trail.

 

[MAH]

Collect the blood and feet when you are stalking, it will form clots but sieve them out when you get home and store in small squeeze bottles. Keep the feet along with the blood and freeze them together so you can use the correct blood with the correct feet.

@Mihangel Dan Pren
@Selous
Fabulous.
What an interesting question and really informative,helpful responses to a niche topic.
I don't own a dog, but can appreciate how helpful this info is.
What a fabulous forum.

Out of interest, are the feet the target / prize for the dog to find?
M.