Namman
Well-Known Member
Shot three big warthog boars with .223 and 55gr sp's. All heart/lung shots , ran no more than 50 yards.
Boar Cal
- Thread starter tony rentokil
- Start date
8x57
Distinguished Member
Who classes them as vermin?
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
I was told some years ago now by Lancashire that they had to be listed separately. They were not covered by ALQ/AOLQ. However when pushed on the subject more recently I received no argument that they couldn’t be shot under ALQ.
That said I am not aware of any legal classification from Government. Like @8x57 I would like to see what legislation designated them as such. As far as I was aware much of the problem of their unchecked spread was the lack of a clear classification in Law.
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
So, hypothetically speaking, take it I’ve been caught shooting, wounding and causing suffering to a boar with a calibre smaller than .270, would that in itself leave me open to prosecution or would intent to cause suffering be needed to be proved?
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
No I am quite happy on AOLQ. it’s the vermin part I am querying too.
I wasn’t aware of a legal classification, as that is what caused the problem with Lancashire Police. They said initially Boar had to be listed separately. Later that changed to AOLQ but you have to use a 270 I didn’t point out that was merely guidance as I was asking for a 270 at the time.
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
Would the fact that you are legally able to control them with night vision / thermal scopes not classify them as vermin ?
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
No intention is immaterial. Did your actions cause suffering? Is there any legislation/advice on requirements to shoot the animal cleanly?
It would certainly make part of the case against you. The same way shooting farm deer with a .22 might, they would use it against you as in the Deer act says etc.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Not in my opinion.
The Government DEFRA or whoever stating that they are is what would classify them.
tikka_madras
Well-Known Member
As for the use of 223 in the US, based on the videos they post, few are capable of head shooting, and dropping a static pig, and once the pigs are running, they fair even worse, mostly
It's hard to hold the rifle steady from the helicopter....
I was chatting to someone the other day about shooting from a helicopter.
he was suggesting they must have to be really good shots, but my theory, is that it’s all down to the skill of the pilot.
if the pilot matches his speed to that of the boar, isn’t the effect, the same as shooting a static target
min my limited experience, guys shooting bolt action rifles, are far better shots, than people using semi autos !
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Do warthogs have 1 inch of fat around them during African winter months?
Almost any cal will do a side on brainshot but it is an always mobile target and so the risk of wounding due to the lower shock value is higher, do you really want an FOD severely wounded boar attacking walkers?
My understanding is there is no law governing what boar can be shot with, and they are not afforded protection in law like deer are under the Deer Act. Conceptually you could shoot them with a .22LR as theres nothing legally preventing you from doing so.
There is also a difference between head shooting a calm animal through thermal at night and H/L shooting a running boar. I've been up to the Dean a few times with Barry and he mentioned that he's had folks out with .223 head shooting them and that does the job easily, but its not something I would want to do. Mess it up and the animal is off and at that point you're sat there with what might as well be a pea shooter trying to stop an angry boar.
I agree with the guidance that the minimum really is .270, or potentially .308 instead.
I did a driven hunt with .308 and that rolled them over just fine, but if I went now I'd be taking my .300wm or .45-70. A mate of mine has also done driven boar with .25-06 and that also did the job just fine, and passed clear through the shoulders of a running animal with 117gn Federal.
There is also a difference between head shooting a calm animal through thermal at night and H/L shooting a running boar. I've been up to the Dean a few times with Barry and he mentioned that he's had folks out with .223 head shooting them and that does the job easily, but its not something I would want to do. Mess it up and the animal is off and at that point you're sat there with what might as well be a pea shooter trying to stop an angry boar.
I agree with the guidance that the minimum really is .270, or potentially .308 instead.
I did a driven hunt with .308 and that rolled them over just fine, but if I went now I'd be taking my .300wm or .45-70. A mate of mine has also done driven boar with .25-06 and that also did the job just fine, and passed clear through the shoulders of a running animal with 117gn Federal.
When the first wave of 6.5CM craze came some very experienced German customers of ours bought themselves one. One of them took over 100 Roe in a season and was delighted. When it came to boar they gave up with the CM fairly quickly after loosing a few boar and went back to 308.
Another thing that struck me was that several boar hunters went back from 9.3x62 to 30-06 / 308 saying the larger cal gave no real advantage.
If one chooses to use a 223 instead of say a 30cal when going out on boar just to satisfy some ego.... off you go, best alone not to get others hurt. I think there is enough information out there about boar shooting and what would be an appropriate cartridge, why not take it on board.
edi
Another thing that struck me was that several boar hunters went back from 9.3x62 to 30-06 / 308 saying the larger cal gave no real advantage.
If one chooses to use a 223 instead of say a 30cal when going out on boar just to satisfy some ego.... off you go, best alone not to get others hurt. I think there is enough information out there about boar shooting and what would be an appropriate cartridge, why not take it on board.
edi
Penyard
Well-Known Member
Morning Guys, we have been here a few times before. As I see it there are 2 separate issues;
1.The firearms licensing legalities
2.The practical considerations when deciding what calibre you are going to shoot a wild boar with
It used to be the case that certificates had to be conditioned specifically for wild boar and the calibre had to be .270 or over. That was certainly the case in West Mercia and I believe Gloucestershire. I was not uncomfortable with that approach as it was based on common sense and went some way to deterring cowboys who are ill equipped for the job in hand from thinking it is a good idea to go out after wild boar with smaller calibres. This has now been replaced by the AOLQ licensing condition which will permit FAC holders to shoot boar with any rifle showing that condition. However, as has already been stated, there is clear guidance in the HO licensing documents that state .270 and above is considered suitable for wild boar and anybody using a lesser calibre who then finds themselves in a pickle could leave themselves wide open for prosecution for animal welfare or be challenged on their suitability to hold an FAC. Is it likely? No, but an important consideration nonetheless.
I do not claim to be the definitive holder of all knowledge of boar shooting but have shot plenty (hundreds) in the last 15 years and I have learned a lot (still am learning). In the early days I let a mate who is a full time keeper and very good shot with a .243 use his own rifle on boar, the result being 2 lost and wounded pigs. I have seen small to medium sized boar shot with .243 and decent quality bullets and it has been ok. Of course, a well placed brain shot at close range with a static animal will be ok with smaller calibres most of the time. However, most smaller calibre bullets are designed for vermin, thin skinned light deer at best. Having seen smaller calibre varmint bullets fail to put big fallow bucks down due to shallow wounding and failure to punch through in to the vitals, I have concerns over head shooting boar with these bullet types as I can foresee the potential for bullet failure on certain shots and larger animals.
Trust me, if you intend to shoot boar then make sure you are properly equipped, after all most of you on here seem to spend all your hours fantasising about the next rifle or calibre you lust after and if you haven't got something suitable for boar then I strongly recommend that you get the right tool for the job which need not be exotic or expensive and if you have boar on your ground, it will not be difficult getting a variation for a suitable calibre if you don't already have one. I reckon you could buy a cheap boar shooting rig including a digital NV scope for under a grand. That's not many pigs to the game dealer and it's paid for.
My strong advice based upon genuine experience is that a .308 with a 150gr - 180gr tough bullet will cope with the task which can be to punch through a thick outer layer of mud matted hair, 2" shoulder shield, 1" fat and a shoulder bone that is a lot denser than a deer before your bullet gets to where the action is. Think a .243 with a soft point bullet can successfully do that job time after time? Think again. Don't take a pen knife to a gun fight! There really is no glory in claiming you can shoot big tough things with unsuitable small things, it is just irresponsible.
We owe it to our quarry to aim for swift and humane killing every time we pull the trigger. We also owe it to each other to act responsibly and think of the consequences of our actions as we have ever greater numbers of critics who will be only too pleased to capitalise on any of our cock ups and, as Bavarian Brit mentions, having wounded boar wandering around in areas with large numbers of the general public is not a great look for us as a community.
1.The firearms licensing legalities
2.The practical considerations when deciding what calibre you are going to shoot a wild boar with
It used to be the case that certificates had to be conditioned specifically for wild boar and the calibre had to be .270 or over. That was certainly the case in West Mercia and I believe Gloucestershire. I was not uncomfortable with that approach as it was based on common sense and went some way to deterring cowboys who are ill equipped for the job in hand from thinking it is a good idea to go out after wild boar with smaller calibres. This has now been replaced by the AOLQ licensing condition which will permit FAC holders to shoot boar with any rifle showing that condition. However, as has already been stated, there is clear guidance in the HO licensing documents that state .270 and above is considered suitable for wild boar and anybody using a lesser calibre who then finds themselves in a pickle could leave themselves wide open for prosecution for animal welfare or be challenged on their suitability to hold an FAC. Is it likely? No, but an important consideration nonetheless.
I do not claim to be the definitive holder of all knowledge of boar shooting but have shot plenty (hundreds) in the last 15 years and I have learned a lot (still am learning). In the early days I let a mate who is a full time keeper and very good shot with a .243 use his own rifle on boar, the result being 2 lost and wounded pigs. I have seen small to medium sized boar shot with .243 and decent quality bullets and it has been ok. Of course, a well placed brain shot at close range with a static animal will be ok with smaller calibres most of the time. However, most smaller calibre bullets are designed for vermin, thin skinned light deer at best. Having seen smaller calibre varmint bullets fail to put big fallow bucks down due to shallow wounding and failure to punch through in to the vitals, I have concerns over head shooting boar with these bullet types as I can foresee the potential for bullet failure on certain shots and larger animals.
Trust me, if you intend to shoot boar then make sure you are properly equipped, after all most of you on here seem to spend all your hours fantasising about the next rifle or calibre you lust after and if you haven't got something suitable for boar then I strongly recommend that you get the right tool for the job which need not be exotic or expensive and if you have boar on your ground, it will not be difficult getting a variation for a suitable calibre if you don't already have one. I reckon you could buy a cheap boar shooting rig including a digital NV scope for under a grand. That's not many pigs to the game dealer and it's paid for.
My strong advice based upon genuine experience is that a .308 with a 150gr - 180gr tough bullet will cope with the task which can be to punch through a thick outer layer of mud matted hair, 2" shoulder shield, 1" fat and a shoulder bone that is a lot denser than a deer before your bullet gets to where the action is. Think a .243 with a soft point bullet can successfully do that job time after time? Think again. Don't take a pen knife to a gun fight! There really is no glory in claiming you can shoot big tough things with unsuitable small things, it is just irresponsible.
We owe it to our quarry to aim for swift and humane killing every time we pull the trigger. We also owe it to each other to act responsibly and think of the consequences of our actions as we have ever greater numbers of critics who will be only too pleased to capitalise on any of our cock ups and, as Bavarian Brit mentions, having wounded boar wandering around in areas with large numbers of the general public is not a great look for us as a community.
Namman
Well-Known Member
In no way would I recommend .223 for warthog/boar! These were shot on private land in South Africa, from a hide during crop protection using the landowners rifle, a moderated .223. No shot was taken until the warthog was standing perfectly broadside/quartering slightly away to miss the shoulder. I never mentioned head shooting in my post.
I am a believer in .30 cal and bigger for such beasts.
No problems. Will kill anything in the right spot. A boar sword might be handy though in case you fk up.Thanks for that Mike
Anyone fancy their chances with a .22 hornet against a large boar?
Having read all that, perhaps the .308 is marginal.
.416 maybe or .458 W mag, could be the go to.
Seen them killed dead with a 5.6x57 and knocked up and dangerous with a .270 it's all about placement or tremendous knock down power.
I recently had a look at a clip of those guys practicing on running boar targets, sometimes under 2" groups. These guys are very good. Will the average guy notice the difference between 3100fps and 2800fps? Are we always shooting behind? My guess is that 90% of hunters would not choose the Rifle Prinz Albrecht displayed at the IWA. It was a roughly 28" heavy barrelled very long stocked heavy lump of a rifle. One will need years to get anywhere close to the level they are at. Also their aim is for a spine shot to get dramatic tumbles. Heart shot with a 100m run is not great on TV.
A good friend of mine who runs the Wild and Hund Forum in Germany uses a Marlin 45-70 as his favourite driven game gun. They have a lot of boar and are under huge pressure to get numbers down on the Mosel river where he lives.
edi
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