Boris Johnson is a Charlatan. Discuss

[gixer1]

I'd disagree. He was by far the best London mayor to date. The competition was pretty poor admittedly. Also, he had had quite a successful private sector career, taking a massive pay cut to go into politics.
The alternatives were Hancock, May, Hunt - who created much of the current disaster, Corbyn and Starmer. Take your pick.

^^this^^…..Boris may not be perfect, however…consider the alternatives or other parties and he doesn’t look all that bad!

I’d like to see Rees-mogg have a bash at it although I fear the majority would hate him just based on the fact he is well spoken and educated!

regards,
Gixer

 

[TomDeer]

Perhaps one just has to be a certain type of person to stand for elected office?

For my part I would never volunteer my personal life or that of my family to be subjected to the degree of scrutiny that a politican's may be subject to. It isn't even as if my private life is 'colourful'.

Additionally, if one is a competent individual with a serious career, why would one put that on hold and possibly take a significant pay cut for all the rubbish and scrutiny that being an MP would entail?

Perhaps the reason we end up with Johnson, Corbyn et al is because people who might make a better fist of it just can't be bothered with it?

 

[User00025]

Additionally, if one is a competent individual with a serious career, why would one put that on hold and possibly take a significant pay cut for all the rubbish and scrutiny that being an MP would entail?

As you say "If one has a serious career". But consider the fact that with the perks, second dwelling, expenses and a gold plated pension it certainly is worth looking at. Particularly as you may get a good deal afterwards a la Blair.

 

[User00033]

I bet, that if I could be bothered (and I can’t), I would find at least half the anti BoJo commentators in this thread said very positive things about him when (a) he succeeded May and (b) he smashed Corbyn.

Those old posts will be there. Guaranteed.

You’re a fair-weathered bunch. And you’re no different to any other citizens in pretty much all countries in the world right now; you’re going through insane upheaval on a daily basis as you try to come to terms with circumstances no living people have any experience of or idea what to do with. This situation is destroying your optimism and enthusiasm, but there comes a point where you must ask yourselves whether that is entirely BoJo’s fault, or something you can fix of your own free will.

The rare left wing commentator on here hasn’t got much to offer as an alternative, have they? Just imagine what Covid would have been like if Jeremy had won.

Come on lads, time for a bit of the old British Bulldog, a bit of fortitude, stiffen your upper lips.

Or, as an Aussie would say, stop farkin’ whinging and get on with it.

 

[TomDeer]

As you say "If one has a serious career". But consider the fact that with the perks, second dwelling, expenses and a gold plated pension it certainly is worth looking at. Particularly as you may get a good deal afterwards a la Blair.

OK. You've convinced me. How do I go about getting elected as an MP? Next stop Gravytrainville

 

[Franchi Matt]

Dont do political debates as theres always some annoying smart arse that knows it all

But what I will say about Borris is - fella needs to seriously sort his posture out, he'll be doubled up in agony within a decade without intervention.

Or is he going for the Churchill hunch....?

 

[Scotty99]

He is a politician. All politicians are charlatans. Therefore Boris Johnson is a charlatan. Nothing further to discuss.

 

[User00025]

OK. You've convinced me. How do I go about getting elected as an MP? Next stop Gravytrainville

If I knew the answer Tom I'd be there first.

 

[Mungo]

The rare left wing commentator on here hasn’t got much to offer as an alternative, have they? Just imagine what Covid would have been like if Jeremy had won.

So this is a tricky one. As one of the token left wingers on here, I have thought about this a fair bit. I did not like Corbyn at all, but I don't think he was as nakedly venal and utterly unprincipled as Boris and his circle.

He did have a much, much stronger instinct for the totalitarian, and certainly would have put a very different emphasis on the economy-versus-lives trade-off. Which means I think he would probably have taken us into lockdown sooner each time, and probably tried to impose stricter lockdown. It's unclear whether this would really have made much difference to the overall outcome, though I tend to think it would actually have meant that each lockdown would have been shorter, and so probably would (paradoxically) have had less of an economic impact.

Much else of the response to COVID has more or less been entirely determined by variables over which no government has much control. For instance, it is likely that something like furlough would have been brought in (after all, this is really a very socialist intervention anyway) - not doing so would have been catastrophic. Even the vaccine programme would have been broadly similar. We might not have had the early start we had under BJ, but even that hasn't seemed to have made that much of a difference in the long run - the Europeans have now largely caught up, and it's clear that we currently have soaring cases...

I fondly believe the sheer level of corruption in the allocation of contracts might not have happened under Labour, but maybe that's naïve.

 

[muddy42]

Boris stands for nothing other than Boris, he is a pure opportunist that changes with the wind. Doing this involves breaking promises and lying on a daily basis. But this is not unique in politicians.

In his defense, I do respect his energy, charisma and general optimism with life. Politicians can be such boring people who do not have this spark. Have a watch of his 2021 Olympics speech if you feel the urge.

 

[Tazz]

He was in the right profession a journalis, all headline, dubious facts in the story but plenty of enthusiasm to carry it off and by tomorrow it’s all forgotten, even in that environment he was sacked for lying ( Sacked for lying in the newspaper industry that’s not easy). Even more scary the other option was JC ( Not the one featured in the bible)

 

[Apthorpe]

So this is a tricky one. As one of the token left wingers on here, I have thought about this a fair bit. I did not like Corbyn at all, but I don't think he was as nakedly venal and utterly unprincipled as Boris and his circle.

That's because you subscribe to left wing media. I entertained the possibility that Corbyn was principled, but it didn't take him long to drop his lifelong positions on nuclear weapons and terrorism. He was a steadfast supporter of nakedly venal union leaders. McDonnell as a man of principle? Hmm. Both of them continued campaigning on lies long after they had been proven as such. I don't buy the idea that any senior Labour or Lib Dem figure was any cleaner than Tories at all. It's a question of the sleaze one wishes to ignore or to see.

He did have a much, much stronger instinct for the totalitarian, and certainly would have put a very different emphasis on the economy-versus-lives trade-off. Which means I think he would probably have taken us into lockdown sooner each time, and probably tried to impose stricter lockdown. It's unclear whether this would really have made much difference to the overall outcome, though I tend to think it would actually have meant that each lockdown would have been shorter, and so probably would (paradoxically) have had less of an economic impact.

Much else of the response to COVID has more or less been entirely determined by variables over which no government has much control. For instance, it is likely that something like furlough would have been brought in (after all, this is really a very socialist intervention anyway) - not doing so would have been catastrophic. Even the vaccine programme would have been broadly similar. We might not have had the early start we had under BJ, but even that hasn't seemed to have made that much of a difference in the long run - the Europeans have now largely caught up, and it's clear that we currently have soaring cases...

I'm not so sure about the vaccine programme. I find it hard to imagine Corbyn's team doing anything like as much to facilitate the private sector vaccine efforts. I don't know if he'd have thrown in his lot with the EU, probably not. I'd suspect he'd have gone for an NHS-managed effort which would have been a total clusterffck. I doubt he'd have committed to buying the Pfizer vaccine (being American big pharma) as strongly. He'd probably have gone for the Russian and Chinese vaccines in a big way.

I fondly believe the sheer level of corruption in the allocation of contracts might not have happened under Labour, but maybe that's naïve.

I think I'd agree with that to a degree, but I also think he would not have got possession of PPE as quickly or in as much quantity. Obviously, the PPE situation is a massive fiasco which is Hunt's fault, but blame also goes back as far as 7/7.
The corruption I think falls into two categories: proper sleaze, and bad-value, over-priced product from spurious outfits. Given PHE/NHS's lethal complacency prior to the outbreak, I think the latter was not just inevitable but essential given the urgency.
The decisions to illegally withhold publication of contracts was worse than many of the offences. Hancock's chums cashing in was a disgrace, but some of the apparent cronyism was a good thing (Kate Bingham) ...although offset by that woman (name escapes me) who screwed up track and trace.

 

[Pine Marten]

I’d like to see Rees-mogg have a bash at it although I fear the majority would hate him just based on the fact he is well spoken and educated!

regards,
Gixer

Erm, no, it's not because of that....

 

[Mungo]

That's because you subscribe to left wing media. I entertained the possibility that Corbyn was principled, but it didn't take him long to drop his lifelong positions on nuclear weapons and terrorism. He was a steadfast supporter of nakedly venal union leaders. McDonnell as a man of principle? Hmm.

Well yes. But ‘not as bad as Boris’ is really like saying drowning in a stagnant pond isn’t quite as bad as drowning in raw sewage.

Ultimately, I think almost any government would have made a mess of it, but in different ways. There isn’t really a single country that’s figured this out successfully.

 

[Apthorpe]

Well yes. But ‘not as bad as Boris’ is really like saying drowning in a stagnant pond isn’t quite as bad as drowning in raw sewage.

Ultimately, I think almost any government would have made a mess of it, but in different ways. There isn’t really a single country that’s figured this out successfully.

True, but it's essential that we do not forget that we were criminally under-prepared. Who could have guessed that medical staff would need surgical gloves or bog standard masks in an emergency situation?
The excuse is that our "experts" decided that the only pandemic we might get was of a flu-type. That alone is criminally stupid. Concealing the assessments of emergency exercises....also criminal. Etc. Etc. The thing is that most of these errors don't really lie at politicians' doors.

 

[User00035]

I fondly believe the sheer level of corruption in the allocation of contracts might not have happened under Labour, but maybe that's naïve.

Have you been drinking?

Do you not remember Gordon Brown's Public/Private Finance Initiative? The most corrupt and monumentally wasteful beanfeast in the history of modern government. Many public services have never recovered from the damage it did and we will probably never stop paying for it.

 

[NP435]

Give Boris a break, please instead bash My moron President Joe (I wish knew where was and why) Biden

 

[gixer1]

Erm, no, it's not because of that....

Erm, yes, it most likely would be….

 

[Pine Marten]

Erm, yes, it most likely would be….

Ok, I'll play.

Erm, I think you'll find it isn't. It's because he's a massively reactionary so-and-so.

 

[gixer1]

Ok, I'll play.

Erm, I think you'll find it isn't. It's because he's a massively reactionary so-and-so.

Ok…I’ll also play - I think you’ll find that’s an opinion…so to say anyone else is not accurate is ridiculous…