Canada or Africa? Suggestions welcome!

[wildfowler.250]

Well guys I’m looking for some opinions from more travelled folk than myself.

Since a combination of a couple of things,(chat of a trophy ban and family life likely to only get more full on over the next number of years) I thought I’d kick on and do at least one ‘bucket list’ trip - if the law still let us.

Which hunting destination would seem more sensible? Canada or Africa?


Since watching more and more American shows on YouTube, I’ve grown increasingly interested in a black bear hunt. Partly as I’ve now realised they’re quite highly regarded as a meat product as well as a trophy.
Despite being plentiful, they’re also on cites which may or may not get banned in the near future. The cites side did lean me more to the Canada option if the ban doesn’t go through.
The free range aspect is appealing,(not something you will get in Africa). And you can hunt in spring which is easier to join up a trip with the other half once you’re done hunting.
But, you’re $5-$6k for a bear and $1.5k for an additional tag. This is the cheaper hunts in Canada / USA as well. Anything more mainstream seems to be $10K.


Now, for Africa you seem to get a hell of a hunt for even $5K. Probably 5 antelope depending on what you go for,(I was looking at springbok, impala, kudu, nyala and something else like maybe a black wildebeest). Admittedly this probably puts the taxidermy fees up but you seem to get so much more for for your buck.

But it’s not free range. I’d want one heck of a big reserve to be comfortable.


And Canada may well be a lot safer?


There’s no way herself would tag along to a safari that involves hunting but that’s a separate discussion.


Anyone got any opinions on the above? The uk seems to default to Africa over the states for hunting? I’m not sure if it’s because you get more bang for your buck? Or because of the you’ve got a wider variety of game?


What to choose? Africa used to always be the bucket list. Hunting outwith the uk and Africa seems very pricey!

 

[Cumbrian 1]

Canada for moose and Africa for elephant.

 

[bowji john]

For Canada talk to @alberta boy on here

I'm sure he could give you good advice

j

 

[Cumbrian 1]

Don’t overlook Asia where you can hunt Elk, moose, sheep and ibex.

Azerbaijan Tur hunts are very affordable but be prepared to climb.

 

[Heym SR20]

Firstly Africa and Canada are huge places with multiple different types of land and mountains etc.

In both there will be big differences between outfitters and types of hunting. In some places - the more agricultural areas, or former farming areas now turned over to game ranching you will be accommodated in a house or cabin or tent with hot and cold running water and good food readily available. And your hunt will be taken out in a vehicle to known areas and sitting up or stalking into animals.

In Africa there are now very few areas where a proper wilderness type hunt on foot is available. Ie where you go into the wilds, set up camp and then hunt from there.

Canada has many more such opportunities.

The big cost is finding an outfitter who can take you. In Africa it’s pretty much impossible to hunt without a PH, and to cover their costs and make a living they have to charge high prices for their time and to cover costs of vehicles, licences etc etc. Running a vehicle in central Africa is probably three times the cost of elsewhere. Vehicles and spare parts attract high import duties. In Zim, a basic Toyota Hilux is well over US $100,000.

In Canada, provided you have family or friends, costs can be substantially cheaper, but if you are flying into somewhere remote it gets expensive.

As for safety, I would suggest on the actual hunting its six of one and two threes. Africa hunting ground tends to be flatter, but you have high temps etc. biggest risks are heat, vehicle accidents, twisting an ankle and disease such as malaria. Canada, probably replace heat with weather and hyper rather than hypo thermia. And you probably don’t have the disease factor.

Africa has some big grumpy animals, so does Canada in the form of bears. And I suspect a bull moose can probably have a similar effect on your well being as a bull buffalo.

Canada doesn’t have the crime problem that many parts of Africa do, nor political instability. But this is usually a challenge for locals - tourists are kept well away.

 

[dobber]

The price will always be dependant on the type of hunt you want to do, what do you plan on doing with the bear, looking for a real trophy or the experience
Plenty of outfitters here and bears can be hunted in many provinces each with their own unique experiences
I can hunt bear for $1200 or up over $5000, then of course the cost of tags, can hunt one bear or two, what to do after the hunt if you are staying to do the tourist thing, as in proximity to sites of interest. Manitoba has good bears but not many people want to hang out in Winnipeg, Sask also has good bears but not much else goes on there, Alberta is a good choice and can be in the foothills of the Rockies which is awesome, BC walking the mountain roads is inspiring and lots of big bears, Ontario and Quebec are solid choices and bigger cities to visit and think lastly would be New Brunswick

 

[dobber]

Now Africa is well and truly a buyers market, I have been there 3 times and would go again, I hunted for a week, shot plenty of animals, took the wife who enjoyed sitting about reading and doing some day trips with the owners wife, we kept that cost under $5000
The place I hunted was of course fenced in as is much of SA but was 25,000 acres and would recommend him in a heart beat, old 1800's homestead

 

[Y85]

Not sure if this will be much help but I live in BC and I have hunted Africa. Just a couple random thoughts,
firstly, you can't go wrong with either one. But, to expand a bit, folks are correct when they say, it depends on what you want. For instance, a spring black bear hunt over bait in SK or MB is not going to run you nearly as much as a backcountry moose hunt in the Yukon or, god knows, a sheep hunt anywhere. Spot and stalk bear hunts in BC (out of lodges in some of the most beautiful country on the planet) will run close to your US$10K number, and have many of the amenities found in Africa -- great food, comfortable accommodations, etc. Depends on what you like. I took my biggest bear from a tree stand over bait but, for me, those five days sitting in the air, were not as enjoyable as struggling around thru the bush -- even when unsuccessful. But, that's just me. Also, a number of the best bear areas (at least in BC) no longer let you buy a second tag.
For breadth of experience, its hard to imagine a place better than BC -- moose, elk, sheep, mtn goat, bear, mule deer, even some whitetail and occasionally, caribou -- particularly in the northeast corner (Region 7B). However, sheep are going for US$85K, moose for US$20-25K, etc. Trying to do all of them, even if you have the time (3 weeks or more), might run upwards of a quarter million.
In Africa, you can get a phenomenal plains game hunt for the same price as a good bear hunt (spot and stalk) in BC -- probably 5 species, high thread count sheets, daily laundry -- sure, it will be "high fence" but 10,000ha in a fence leaves a lot of places for the game to hide. Add in buffalo or leopard to the plains game, and you're about the same as a good moose hunt (maybe, with a goat, if you're lucky).
I don't quite follow the compleat definition of "trophy ban" as your Parliament is debating it, so I don't know if non-CITES animals will be exempt. That might figure into my calculus, if it was me.
Safety is an issue both places -- but the dangers are different (IMO). I worked in Africa for a number of years, in addition to hunting there, and never had any problems -- either human or animal. In BC, I've broken ribs when my horse decided that my remaining in the saddle was less important than making sure the grizzly was given the right of way. I've fallen/slid down skree slopes, been stomped by another horse who was desperately trying to free itself form the muskeg, gotten frostbite in a blizzard, and been smacked in the face hard enough to need stitches by uncooperative trees. So yeah, either place has its challenges. I will say, I have never so strongly felt the need to tell my children I loved them one last time as I did exposed on a sheep mountain in a lightening storm.
One final caveat, be a mindful (caveat emptor) of what you hear on MeatEater about black bear. Very few people I know eat them -- parasites are a huge issue. I do myself, but my wife does not -- and will not let me bring the meat in the house. I have it made into pepperoni (what the Americans call "deer sticks"), and eat it when I hunt. Sadly, I think most bear meat is discarded. If you choose to eat it, make sure the internal temperature reaches 165F.
So, I am sure this rambling post was of know benefit. You can't go wrong with either Canada or Africa. I love both, and would choose BC if it was my choice. But I live here, and have lived there. This place is Paradise; Africa is Eden.
If you want some references for BC (or SK) outfitters, let me know. I am happy to connect you to good, honest people

 

[bowji john]

This might come across a bit sad and patronising - it isn't meant to be

Seek out authenticity, people you would like to spend time with and extra-ordinary experiences - not animals to shoot as they (in my opinion) are incidental

Find places and cultures you would like to experience

If you are not careful, you might end up with a Disney like experience with bullets

Hunting is a vehicle to the bush - not the destination

 

[wildfowler.250]

Canada for moose and Africa for elephant.

I should have maybe set my budget first! Certainly looking at the 5K mark. On the basis that I’ll have to factor extras on top of that,(taxidermy etc). It wouldn’t buy me a moose’s tail!

For Canada talk to @alberta boy on here

I'm sure he could give you good advice

j

Very helpful, thanks!

Firstly Africa and Canada are huge places with multiple different types of land and mountains etc.

In both there will be big differences between outfitters and types of hunting. In some places - the more agricultural areas, or former farming areas now turned over to game ranching you will be accommodated in a house or cabin or tent with hot and cold running water and good food readily available. And your hunt will be taken out in a vehicle to known areas and sitting up or stalking into animals.

In Africa there are now very few areas where a proper wilderness type hunt on foot is available. Ie where you go into the wilds, set up camp and then hunt from there.

Canada has many more such opportunities.

The big cost is finding an outfitter who can take you. In Africa it’s pretty much impossible to hunt without a PH, and to cover their costs and make a living they have to charge high prices for their time and to cover costs of vehicles, licences etc etc. Running a vehicle in central Africa is probably three times the cost of elsewhere. Vehicles and spare parts attract high import duties. In Zim, a basic Toyota Hilux is well over US $100,000.

In Canada, provided you have family or friends, costs can be substantially cheaper, but if you are flying into somewhere remote it gets expensive.

As for safety, I would suggest on the actual hunting its six of one and two threes. Africa hunting ground tends to be flatter, but you have high temps etc. biggest risks are heat, vehicle accidents, twisting an ankle and disease such as malaria. Canada, probably replace heat with weather and hyper rather than hypo thermia. And you probably don’t have the disease factor.

Africa has some big grumpy animals, so does Canada in the form of bears. And I suspect a bull moose can probably have a similar effect on your well being as a bull buffalo.

Canada doesn’t have the crime problem that many parts of Africa do, nor political instability. But this is usually a challenge for locals - tourists are kept well away.

Thanks bud! It was mainly from a crime point of view as much as anything. I’ve never heard anyone speak highly of South Africa in that regard,(one of my colleagues is originally from SA actually). But I’ve heard lots of stories of folk not leaving compounds/houses after certain times and only walking on certain streets etc.

Maybe less of an issue if your outfitter picks you up and drops you off at the airport?

The price will always be dependant on the type of hunt you want to do, what do you plan on doing with the bear, looking for a real trophy or the experience
Plenty of outfitters here and bears can be hunted in many provinces each with their own unique experiences
I can hunt bear for $1200 or up over $5000, then of course the cost of tags, can hunt one bear or two, what to do after the hunt if you are staying to do the tourist thing, as in proximity to sites of interest. Manitoba has good bears but not many people want to hang out in Winnipeg, Sask also has good bears but not much else goes on there, Alberta is a good choice and can be in the foothills of the Rockies which is awesome, BC walking the mountain roads is inspiring and lots of big bears, Ontario and Quebec are solid choices and bigger cities to visit and think lastly would be New Brunswick

Cheers, really helpful! I should have said I was keen to do spot and stalk so I’d narrowed it a little to BC. It seems really hard to get outfitter feedback though. A lot of the stuff seems geared to ‘ease of hunting’. I don’t need back end of nowhere,(although some of the Brian Call / Gritty stuff on YouTube looks amazing). But my priority is a hard walk and it’s well earned. Obviously a decent bear would be great but not fussed on colour phases etc.

I assume the $1200 dollars is baited stuff and a camp with multiple hunters at a time?

Not sure if this will be much help but I live in BC and I have hunted Africa. Just a couple random thoughts,
firstly, you can't go wrong with either one. But, to expand a bit, folks are correct when they say, it depends on what you want. For instance, a spring black bear hunt over bait in SK or MB is not going to run you nearly as much as a backcountry moose hunt in the Yukon or, god knows, a sheep hunt anywhere. Spot and stalk bear hunts in BC (out of lodges in some of the most beautiful country on the planet) will run close to your US$10K number, and have many of the amenities found in Africa -- great food, comfortable accommodations, etc. Depends on what you like. I took my biggest bear from a tree stand over bait but, for me, those five days sitting in the air, were not as enjoyable as struggling around thru the bush -- even when unsuccessful. But, that's just me. Also, a number of the best bear areas (at least in BC) no longer let you buy a second tag.
For breadth of experience, its hard to imagine a place better than BC -- moose, elk, sheep, mtn goat, bear, mule deer, even some whitetail and occasionally, caribou -- particularly in the northeast corner (Region 7B). However, sheep are going for US$85K, moose for US$20-25K, etc. Trying to do all of them, even if you have the time (3 weeks or more), might run upwards of a quarter million.
In Africa, you can get a phenomenal plains game hunt for the same price as a good bear hunt (spot and stalk) in BC -- probably 5 species, high thread count sheets, daily laundry -- sure, it will be "high fence" but 10,000ha in a fence leaves a lot of places for the game to hide. Add in buffalo or leopard to the plains game, and you're about the same as a good moose hunt (maybe, with a goat, if you're lucky).
I don't quite follow the compleat definition of "trophy ban" as your Parliament is debating it, so I don't know if non-CITES animals will be exempt. That might figure into my calculus, if it was me.
Safety is an issue both places -- but the dangers are different (IMO). I worked in Africa for a number of years, in addition to hunting there, and never had any problems -- either human or animal. In BC, I've broken ribs when my horse decided that my remaining in the saddle was less important than making sure the grizzly was given the right of way. I've fallen/slid down skree slopes, been stomped by another horse who was desperately trying to free itself form the muskeg, gotten frostbite in a blizzard, and been smacked in the face hard enough to need stitches by uncooperative trees. So yeah, either place has its challenges. I will say, I have never so strongly felt the need to tell my children I loved them one last time as I did exposed on a sheep mountain in a lightening storm.
One final caveat, be a mindful (caveat emptor) of what you hear on MeatEater about black bear. Very few people I know eat them -- parasites are a huge issue. I do myself, but my wife does not -- and will not let me bring the meat in the house. I have it made into pepperoni (what the Americans call "deer sticks"), and eat it when I hunt. Sadly, I think most bear meat is discarded. If you choose to eat it, make sure the internal temperature reaches 165F.
So, I am sure this rambling post was of know benefit. You can't go wrong with either Canada or Africa. I love both, and would choose BC if it was my choice. But I live here, and have lived there. This place is Paradise; Africa is Eden.
If you want some references for BC (or SK) outfitters, let me know. I am happy to connect you to good, honest people

Thanks bud! I should maybe have drop you a PM instead.

I basically want a hard hike, BC spot and stalk. It’s just difficult to know where to go. Seems to be plenty places offering spaces but I want to make sure it’s an actual hunt and not just shooting off an ATV etc. Is there anyone you’d recommend? Would you say it’s an actual difficult hunt? It does seem like a lot of logging tracks which I don’t know whether that makes it scenic or easy? Some of these horseback trails into the rockies and so on look amazing but I get the impression a lot of these outfitters cater for numerous people and a quick turnaround.

That’s interesting about the meat. Certainly slow cook or sous vide seems popular but it’s less appealing if a lot of it is chucked.

Price wise, maybe I’ve been looking at cheap stuff for BC then. I was seeing a few places at $5k but again, it’s hard to weigh up reviews and so on.

Safety I was more cautious about SA and crime than Canada and grizzly’s.

This might come across a bit sad and patronising - it isn't meant to be

Seek out authenticity, people you would like to spend time with and extra-ordinary experiences - not animals to shoot as they (in my opinion) are incidental

Find places and cultures you would like to experience

If you are not careful, you might end up with a Disney like experience with bullets

Hunting is a vehicle to the bush - not the destination

That’s pretty much what I’m after for either outing. I want something harder graft be it a hike in either BC or Africa. In many ways Africa makes more financial sense. But Canada would be great to see. I’m just curious why nearly everyone here tends to prefer Africa rather than across the pond.

 

[Y85]

sent you a PM

 

[Heym SR20]

Thanks bud! It was mainly from a crime point of view as much as anything. I’ve never heard anyone speak highly of South Africa in that regard,(one of my colleagues is originally from SA actually). But I’ve heard lots of stories of folk not leaving compounds/houses after certain times and only walking on certain streets etc.

Maybe less of an issue if your outfitter picks you up and drops you off at the airport?

Not really any different to many parts of cities in the UK. There are large parts of Edinburgh, Glasgow, London or Oxford I would walk in after dark.

South Africa is bad for crime and gangsterism in the big cities and in a number of rural areas. Namibia and Botswana on the other hand are safe. In Africa it’s never advised to drive after dark given stray animals and cars with no lights out after dark etc. Yet in places like Namibia gone are the days of vehicles held together with baling wire and rubber inner tube.

Zambia and Malawi are very friendly in terms of people, but plenty still well below poverty line, ditto Mozambique.

Last time I was in Africa was Namibia pre-pandemic on a self drive Safari. No hassles at all for 3 weeks. Only shite was Camping Car Hire where the owner - a White Namibian tried to sting me US$2,000 for a fuel tank that was leaking on a 150,000km Nissan pickup we had rented.

Once I had explained that I use to run a fleet of Landrovers in Zambia on much worse roads, and besides with all the guards in place in must been a very clever stick that caused the seam on the tank to start leaking and that he was utterly full of shite and I was reporting back to friends who run a successful US safari tour business and looking for recommendations in Namibia and no I wouldn’t be recommending him all in an increasingly strong Rhodesian accent he realised he was wasting his time. He then tried to give Mrs Heym the little woman treatment - big big mistake especially as it was in front of all his female staff.

 

[Tazz]

Well guys I’m looking for some opinions from more travelled folk than myself.

Since a combination of a couple of things,(chat of a trophy ban and family life likely to only get more full on over the next number of years) I thought I’d kick on and do at least one ‘bucket list’ trip - if the law still let us.

Which hunting destination would seem more sensible? Canada or Africa?


Since watching more and more American shows on YouTube, I’ve grown increasingly interested in a black bear hunt. Partly as I’ve now realised they’re quite highly regarded as a meat product as well as a trophy.
Despite being plentiful, they’re also on cites which may or may not get banned in the near future. The cites side did lean me more to the Canada option if the ban doesn’t go through.
The free range aspect is appealing,(not something you will get in Africa). And you can hunt in spring which is easier to join up a trip with the other half once you’re done hunting.
But, you’re $5-$6k for a bear and $1.5k for an additional tag. This is the cheaper hunts in Canada / USA as well. Anything more mainstream seems to be $10K.


Now, for Africa you seem to get a hell of a hunt for even $5K. Probably 5 antelope depending on what you go for,(I was looking at springbok, impala, kudu, nyala and something else like maybe a black wildebeest). Admittedly this probably puts the taxidermy fees up but you seem to get so much more for for your buck.

But it’s not free range. I’d want one heck of a big reserve to be comfortable.


And Canada may well be a lot safer?


There’s no way herself would tag along to a safari that involves hunting but that’s a separate discussion.


Anyone got any opinions on the above? The uk seems to default to Africa over the states for hunting? I’m not sure if it’s because you get more bang for your buck? Or because of the you’ve got a wider variety of game?


What to choose? Africa used to always be the bucket list. Hunting outwith the uk and Africa seems very pricey!

Both have great opportunities but when you get old as a hunter and you are sitting around drinking beer and trading stories you want to be able to say you went to Africa and hunted on the red soil and had sundowners under African skies

 

[VSS]

This might come across a bit sad and patronising - it isn't meant to be

Seek out authenticity, people you would like to spend time with and extra-ordinary experiences - not animals to shoot as they (in my opinion) are incidental

Find places and cultures you would like to experience

If you are not careful, you might end up with a Disney like experience with bullets

Hunting is a vehicle to the bush - not the destination

They sound like wise words.
I'll tuck them away in my memory bank in case I ever have the opportunity to hunt abroad.

 

[dobber]

I assume the $1200 dollars is baited stuff and a camp with multiple hunters at a time?

Baited yes, and depending on the camp, I hunted last fall with just me and my buddy at one spot

If you are also talking about 5k (pounds) then a moose hunt possible in Newfoundland

 

[tusker]

If you fancy Africa I would recommend Namibia, true wilderness mostly unfenced
Tusker

 

[3xspringer]

I would recommend S/A been 3 times and would go back had great time, last time I went for 3 weeks took the wife travelled around for 10ish days and spent the rest of the time on plains game very large areas to hunt and mountains to climb so not as flat as people think can be hard work, rough cost was around 7/8k amazing place, had no problem with the locals,

 

[devon deer stalker]

Why have you ruled out the US @wildfowler.250 ?
DIY black bear hunt?
I hunted Montana 4 times, and did a couple of fly fishing holidays there, I can give you a location where we all saw black bears

 

[tusker]

I love Montana, lots of wilderness and locals are great.
Tusker

 

[wildfowler.250]

Not really any different to many parts of cities in the UK. There are large parts of Edinburgh, Glasgow, London or Oxford I would walk in after dark.

South Africa is bad for crime and gangsterism in the big cities and in a number of rural areas. Namibia and Botswana on the other hand are safe. In Africa it’s never advised to drive after dark given stray animals and cars with no lights out after dark etc. Yet in places like Namibia gone are the days of vehicles held together with baling wire and rubber inner tube.

Zambia and Malawi are very friendly in terms of people, but plenty still well below poverty line, ditto Mozambique.

Last time I was in Africa was Namibia pre-pandemic on a self drive Safari. No hassles at all for 3 weeks. Only shite was Camping Car Hire where the owner - a White Namibian tried to sting me US$2,000 for a fuel tank that was leaking on a 150,000km Nissan pickup we had rented.

Once I had explained that I use to run a fleet of Landrovers in Zambia on much worse roads, and besides with all the guards in place in must been a very clever stick that caused the seam on the tank to start leaking and that he was utterly full of shite and I was reporting back to friends who run a successful US safari tour business and looking for recommendations in Namibia and no I wouldn’t be recommending him all in an increasingly strong Rhodesian accent he realised he was wasting his time. He then tried to give Mrs Heym the little woman treatment - big big mistake especially as it was in front of all his female staff.

There does always seem to be one ‘con’ type story as well! To be fair, I’ve never found Glasgow lived up to its rep. Good to know SA isn’t too bad!

Both have great opportunities but when you get old as a hunter and you are sitting around drinking beer and trading stories you want to be able to say you went to Africa and hunted on the red soil and had sundowners under African skies

Fair point!

Baited yes, and depending on the camp, I hunted last fall with just me and my buddy at one spot

If you are also talking about 5k (pounds) then a moose hunt possible in Newfoundland

Thanks, will have a look. The main reason im
looking at spot and stalk is to see a bit more country

If you fancy Africa I would recommend Namibia, true wilderness mostly unfenced
Tusker

Thanks tusker. The main reason I was leaning to SA was it’s malaria free - but I could be wrong there!

I would recommend S/A been 3 times and would go back had great time, last time I went for 3 weeks took the wife travelled around for 10ish days and spent the rest of the time on plains game very large areas to hunt and mountains to climb so not as flat as people think can be hard work, rough cost was around 7/8k amazing place, had no problem with the locals,

Sounds ideal, certainly you get a lot longer and more hunting options for the same money.

Why have you ruled out the US @wildfowler.250 ?
DIY black bear hunt?
I hunted Montana 4 times, and did a couple of fly fishing holidays there, I can give you a location where we all saw black bears

I would do it in a heartbeat but it seems totally daunting. Huge areas. Montana gets a lot of hunters? Unless you go miles out which I’m not averse to. But then I’ve got to factor in how I’d pack something out if going solo and so on.

Some of the “gritty” hunts on YouTube look amazing but they’re taking lamas in to carry water, heaps of camping equipment , rafts to get across rivers. It’s way more full on than our hunting here which seems quite soft by comparison but I’d love to do it.

I love Montana, lots of wilderness and locals are great.
Tusker

The scenery does look spectacular to be fair!