Cape buff bull opinions.

[John Gryphon]

Righteo what is THE calibre for THIS scenario only.

Good mature bull standing side on at 50 yards unaware of humans.
If the correct calibre and projectile is used that enters square on, breaks the near shoulder then exits after breaking the off shoulder the bull has no front end and thus is going no where..ie charge back at the shooter.

Yeah yeah yeah buffalo have been shot with a zillion calibres with and without success so what is THE Combo?

 

[Heym SR20]

A good expanding monolithic bullet in any thing from a 30-06 upwards. Ideally a 375 H&H (legal min in many places) but a 318 Westley Richards has killed plenty.

Some will say 416 or 458 lott, but probably unnecessary extra recoil.

Shot placement is everything and you want to hit the nexus of major nerves in the thoracic cavity - if this is hit no animal is going anywhere.

 

[John Gryphon]

A good expanding monolithic bullet in any thing from a 30-06 upwards. Ideally a 375 H&H (legal min in many places) but a 318 Westley Richards has killed plenty.

Some will say 416 or 458 lott, but probably unnecessary extra recoil.

Shot placement is everything and you want to hit the nexus of major nerves in the thoracic cavity - if this is hit no animal is going anywhere.

I did lay out the scenario above and the mention of a 30-06 in that is not going to work.

 

[sikamalc]

Having shot Cape Buffalo, I would not gaurantee that shooting one through both shoulders will give the desired result of it falling over on the spot, whether it has seen you or not.
Minimum calibre is 375HH. They used to use 30.06 for culling cow Cape Buffalo, I believe.

Cape Buffalo are notorious for being very strong, resilient and devious. I have seen one dropped with one shot from a 375HH, which broke its spine. I have seen another take 5 or 6 shots from a 416 and a 375HH before it was dispatched.

Either way, you need to be on your feet and be ready, as a rule they dont take too kindly being shot at.

 

[Selous]

Like everything there is a range of calibres. Being sensible the 9.3 is the minimum but in many jurisdictions this is defined by the .375. But there is no upper limit defined by law or by the buffalo save to say that the bigger the hole the better! The shot you describe relies on accuracy and penetration and it is the shooter that defines their own ability to manage recoil and shoot accurately. I have read a study where the .375 resulted in fewer wounded dangerous game animals than bigger calibres, presumably because it can be shot more accurately than the big bores by more people. Also the .375 is more likely to be scoped than a hairy chested 505 Gibbs which may assist shot placement.

 

[John Gryphon]

Also the .375 is more likely to be scoped than a hairy chested 505 Gibbs which may assist shot placement.

It is well publicised that in the 'heat of the moment' ie firing the shot that recoil isn't given a thought or felt, its not really a factor imo.
The right calibre and right ammo breaking the front end of any animal drops them as nothing can stand with no front end, hence what is it for the C buff.

 

[sikamalc]

It is well publicised that in the 'heat of the moment' ie firing the shot that recoil isn't given a thought or felt, its not really a factor imo.
The right calibre and right ammo breaking the front end of any animal drops them as nothing can stand with no front end, hence what is it for the C buff.

You obviously have not come up against Cape Buffalo then?

 

[John Gryphon]

You obviously have not come up against Cape Buffalo then?

Read again. " It is well publicised that in the 'heat of the moment' ie firing the shot that recoil isn't given a thought or felt, its not really a factor imo."

On reading 100`s if not 1000`s of tales of hunters recollections of shooting big game, recoil isn't a factor for that all important first shot.

Couple of quotes below.

An old man who lived there met him and, during conversation about the filming, asked "You don't have a gun?". Tripp replied no, and allowed as how he didn't feel he needed one. The man handed Tripp a short, alloy framed .44 Mag. Tripp took it, felt it's very light weight and said "Bet she kicks bad." Old man replied "Son, you won't ever feel it when you've got it shoved in a grizzly's mouth".

As the Mararajah of Cooch Behar said "Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant."

Whether he said it or not...its true.

 

[bullet chucker]

As a boy I read of the 500 nitro express double rifle? Not mentioned much of late now are they.

BC.

 

[John Gryphon]

As a boy I read of the 500 nitro express double rifle? Not mentioned much of late now are they.

BC.

I`d much rather it than the above mentioned 30-06.

 

[Selous]

Read again. " It is well publicised that in the 'heat of the moment' ie firing the shot that recoil isn't given a thought or felt, its not really a factor imo."

On reading 100`s if not 1000`s of tales of hunters recollections of shooting big game, recoil isn't a factor for that all important first shot.

Couple of quotes below.

An old man who lived there met him and, during conversation about the filming, asked "You don't have a gun?". Tripp replied no, and allowed as how he didn't feel he needed one. The man handed Tripp a short, alloy framed .44 Mag. Tripp took it, felt it's very light weight and said "Bet she kicks bad." Old man replied "Son, you won't ever feel it when you've got it shoved in a grizzly's mouth".

As the Mararajah of Cooch Behar said "Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant."

Whether he said it or not...its true.

Big difference between 44 mag and 505 Gibbs!! I read another story where a client shot at a big bull elephant with his 460 Weatherby and the PH backed him up with a shot as the Ele departed. It was found dead with only one bullet hole that belonged to the PH. The client had missed the WHOLE bull elephant at probably less than 30 yards!! Recoil doesn’t help !!

 

[John Gryphon]

Recoil doesn’t help !!

Ha ha the bullet was gone before the recoil kicked in..it was a poorly aimed shot.

 

[sikamalc]

I have a good selection of old big game hunting books dating from before 1900, leading up to early 1930's. In which there are numerous references to calibers. In the early days it was an 8 and 4 bore muzzle loaders. Mostly loaded with "TRADE" black powder that was of varying quailty. These early weapons kicked like a mule, and were often repaired in the bush by putting wet Rhino, Elephant or Buffalo skin round the fore end and letting it dry onto the barrel. We had a few like this in collection I was responsible for. Much later the 303 was a weapon used, although it would not be my choice. I think you can load up to 200g bullets?

True one never feels the recoil when you are in a situation with dangerous game. Stopping power of a larger caliber does help, but bullet placement, as with all hunting is important. Trouble is you don't get much time to place a bullet squarely if you have a charging Buff, Elephant or Leopard bearing down on you from less than 20yds.

The 375HH is the go to caliber in many instances for Africa, I have used it on both Buffalo and Elephant, along with Kudu, Gemsbuck etc. On dangerous game it has always been 300g bullets. With both Elephant and Buff it is solids. But when I have taken Buff I have always loaded solid, followed by soft.

Most Buff when wounded will be taken down with a well placed shot or two. However when wounded its a completely different scenario. Tracking a wounded Buff in dense cover is not a joyous undertaking. Quite often they will wait for you and charge from the side, or behind. When it comes to a charging Elephant, head on shots are difficult as the brain sits at the back of the head. Side on shot is much better in my opinion, between the eye and the ear.
Just like deer stalking, no two stalks, or situations are rarely the same.

Just about every year someone gets nailed by a Cape Buff whilst hunting them. South Africa is now all fenced, and many Buff hunts are from introduced stock. I have never hunted Buff in a fenced area. It has always been open tribal lands in Zim.

 

[308tikka]

Something the shooter can afford the time and cash to practice with?

How many are one shot kills with any calibre?

I suppose theres a balance between a near perfect scenario and one that is distinctly sub optimal.

Ive no experience on CB, yet…

 

[Heym SR20]

Having shot Cape Buffalo, I would not gaurantee that shooting one through both shoulders will give the desired result of it falling over on the spot, whether it has seen you or not.
Minimum calibre is 375HH. They used to use 30.06 for culling cow Cape Buffalo, I believe.

Cape Buffalo are notorious for being very strong, resilient and devious. I have seen one dropped with one shot from a 375HH, which broke its spine. I have seen another take 5 or 6 shots from a 416 and a 375HH before it was dispatched.

Either way, you need to be on your feet and be ready, as a rule they dont take too kindly being shot at.

In the old days large numbers of buffalo were shot with 303’s. By far the most widely available calibre in colonial Africa. Ammo was cheap and readily available, and most farmers had one, so it is what was used.

In the last 50 odd years most poaching of big game happens with an AK 47 using 7.62x39 or a G3 or FN FAL using 7.62 NATO.

None of them are ideal, but with a solid military type bullet there is plenty of penetration, and on big game penetration to the vitals is what kills.

In sporting rifles the 318 WR was popular and widely used.

But 375 H&H or 9.3x62 is the legal minimum in most places and this makes sense.

 

[Selous]

Ha ha the bullet was gone before the recoil kicked in..it was a poorly aimed shot.

You are correct but the flinch starts before the bullet starts moving. Higher recoil cartridges are more likely to induce a flinch, especially when bigger than 375H&H.

 

[John Gryphon]

My question/s were outlined in the OP. First line has the buzz words in it. No mention of this and that of other scenarios. Iirc Saeed over at AR has well over 100 Cape Buff bulls to his credit.. they don`t kill every hunter.
Of the early days the first arrivals shot buffalo with any and everything which does not mean that those calibres were the 'one' Remember the fella`s video of an Aussie bloke that shot 25,000 water buff in Aus? He used a .308 to great effect but that does not make it the ideal calibre at all for the foot stalkers.

Back to the OP below.

Righteo what is THE calibre for THIS scenario only.

Good mature bull standing side on at 50 yards unaware of humans.
If the correct calibre and projectile is used that enters square on, breaks the near shoulder then exits after breaking the off shoulder the bull has no front end and thus is going no where..ie charge back at the shooter.

Yeah yeah yeah buffalo have been shot with a zillion calibres with and without success so what is THE Combo?

Higher recoil cartridges are more likely to induce a flinch, especially when bigger than 375H&H.

Yes agreed but in the heat of the moment all thoughts are on the quarry not " this ****s gonna kick"
Flinching is for the bench days.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

You are correct but the flinch starts before the bullet starts moving. Higher recoil cartridges are more likely to induce a flinch, especially when bigger than 375H&H.

I am inclined to agree with you on that. People tend to be "wary" of a particular rifle/calibre if they've had a bad experience using it previously. This is not necessarily a large calibre,a lot of people here in the UK that I've taken out have negative things to say regarding 270 Win. Thereafter any such rifle chambered thus that they use is not used to their best ability.
I have used my late father 470 Nitro for years on all sorts, including buffalo, thankfully to good effect. However I had an uncle that was petrified of the same rifle, couldn't have hit a bus with it .
Answering the original OP, 470 with 500 solid or bluff softnose will break both shoulders, leading to the animal dropping and roaring but not going anywhere.
However, I think my final reasoning would say the heaviest projectile in the largest calibre that you're comfortable using is the best course of action.

 

[GBR66]

Tracking a wounded Buff in dense cover is not a joyous undertaking. Quite often they will wait for you and charge from the side, or behind.

I always wanted to try Buffalo, but having taken a long period off stalking to indulge children's equestrian sport, now I am back into it I am glad I am too old to start when I read a line like that! I think I will stick with game that doesn't take offence at being shot at.....

 

[UpNorthMI]

As a boy I read of the 500 nitro express double rifle? Not mentioned much of late now are they.

BC.

Depends where you are looking, I think the 500 NE is probably more popular than ever and is being produced by nearly all of the current large double rifle makers. I seriously looked at one recently but my eyes were not what they used to be and I feel at a disadvantage to hunt with fine open sights so I'll be sticking with my Blaser R8 in .375 H&H with a low power scope. Blaser has very large open sights for those of us that struggle with fine open sights!

A 570gn bullet from a 500 NE gives you a good chance of not needing to wrestle with the buffalo if you get a well placed first shot ...... lol

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