Case gauge problem.

[kenbro]

Hi,
The effort to close the bolt on my Remington rifle in 222 cal seems a bit harder on some reloads.
I don’t have a FL sizer die but neck size only.
I decided to run some previously fired cases the the body die.
I have a Wilson case gauge that shows if the overall length and headspace is within accepted parameters.
After the cases have been through the body die they still show as too long from shoulder datum to case head.
Anyone got any idea why that would be?
I’ve put some live rounds that I know will chamber in the rifle through the body die and they too show as too long.
Baffled.
Kb.

 

[Cyres]

I have had same issues with. 204 cases.
FL resize and check with Lyman comparator and fine. Reload and some are tight!
Why?
D

 

[scotch_egg]

You need to bump the shoulders back. Neck and body die’s won’t touch the shoulders.

Think I have a set of Lee dies here in the to be sold box.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Inserting a bullet will change the case dimensions very slightly. Resize a bit more.
Regards
JCS

 

[Heym SR20]

The Remington 700, or certainly mine in 223, does have a pretty ejector plunger spring. This has to be compressed against the case head as you close the bolt and this does require quite firm forward pressure.

I have has similar issues with my 223. I full length resize everytime and close the bolt with firm forward pressure.

Note - bolt actions were originally designed to operated quickly and robustly - think terrified soldier returning enemy fire. Mostly we seem to open and close bolts very gently hence a lot of these sorts of feeding issues come to light.

 

[kenbro]

You need to bump the shoulders back. Neck and body die’s won’t touch the shoulders.

Think I have a set of Lee dies here in the to be sold box.

This:
Kb.

 

[kenbro]

Inserting a bullet will change the case dimensions very slightly. Resize a bit more.
Regards
JCS

I thought, one of the beauties of a body die was its ability to bump the shoulder of a loaded cartridge?
Kb.

 

[kenbro]

The Remington 700, or certainly mine in 223, does have a pretty ejector plunger spring. This has to be compressed against the case head as you close the bolt and this does require quite firm forward pressure.

I have has similar issues with my 223. I full length resize everytime and close the bolt with firm forward pressure.

Note - bolt actions were originally designed to operated quickly and robustly - think terrified soldier returning enemy fire. Mostly we seem to open and close bolts very gently hence a lot of these sorts of feeding issues come to light.

I see your point but, when you are used to the feel of the bolt and then it feels different, something has changed.
I shoot around 75 to 100 rounds a week at the range and get used to the feel of the operations.
What you’re saying doesn’t address the carts not fitting in the Wilson case gauge.
Thanks, Kb.

 

[Smellydog]

When you extractor the case from the die the expander is pulling the case neck ??
Lube the case neck inside.

 

[kenbro]

When you extractor the case from the die the expander is pulling the case neck ??
Lube the case neck inside.

I neck size without an expander button in the die, then use a mandrel to get the required neck tension.
Cheers, Kb.

 

[Ttocs]

Adjust your body die to bump the shoulder back a little further. I use a comparator to measure the length (to shoulder) of my fired cases then bump the shoulder back .002 to .004 inches. I use the same body die as you to bump the shoulder. This only works on cases fired in the same chamber. Cases fired in a different rifle will have formed to that rifles chamber; these cases will need to be FL sized back to spec.
N

 

[Foxyboy43]

As above posts - generally I only neck size but inevitably an occasional full length resizing is required as the cases stretch and the shoulders inevitably move forward - your bolt closure will tell you this is happening and more than neck sizing is required. The frequency of full length resizing depends on how hot you load - something I don’t do (been there years ago and didn’t see the point) so I get quite a few neck sizings before I full length (and if necessary bump the shoulder) resize.
A Lee F/L die works fine for me - you should get one and play around with a few hard to chamber fired cases - adjusting the die in small increments until the difference becomes obvious upon chambering. An inexpensive way to check shoulder bump on the .222 is to use a fired .38 case - insert the .222 neck-first in the .38 case - the .222 shoulder will snug up against the .38 neck and measure the overall length, resize as above, measure again still using the .38 case, repeat until the case chambers smoothly. Works a treat for measuring shoulder bump - if you need a few .38 cases just pm me.

 

[Smellydog]

As above posts - generally I only neck size but inevitably an occasional full length resizing is required as the cases stretch and the shoulders inevitably move forward - your bolt closure will tell you this is happening and more than neck sizing is required. The frequency of full length resizing depends on how hot you load - something I don’t do (been there years ago and didn’t see the point) so I get quite a few neck sizings before I full length (and if necessary bump the shoulder) resize.
A Lee F/L die works fine for me - you should get one and play around with a few hard to chamber fired cases - adjusting the die in small increments until the difference becomes obvious upon chambering. An inexpensive way to check shoulder bump on the .222 is to use a fired .38 case - insert the .222 neck-first in the .38 case - the .222 shoulder will snug up against the .38 neck and measure the overall length, resize as above, measure again still using the .38 case, repeat until the case chambers smoothly. Works a treat for measuring shoulder bump - if you need a few .38 cases just pm me.

Can you send me one dad?

 

[palo]

If you size the body with a FL die or body die that is not adjusted down enough to touch the shoulder you will make the case longer.
Just adjust your body die a little at a time until you get the desired shoulder bump.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Can you send me one dad?

Sure thing Smelly.
‘Spose you like me to include the shiny implement which makes it go bang in the first place?

 

[Mr Tree]

Getting the case F L resized to the correct length for your chamber, is the biggest fiddle in reloading. Just tightening the locking rings is enough to alter the bump. I wonder if you can get a slight change in bump depending on the season? In my shed it varies slightly from summer to winter. Hot to cold. Burnt powder inside neck can make resizing a hell of a wrench, I use an electric drill with a nylon throat brush, & lubricate the inside of neck when I wax the case shell, just catch the rim with your lubed fingers is enough. Actually that sounds a bit wrong!!

 

[Smellydog]

Sure thing Smelly.
‘Spose you like me to include the shiny implement which makes it go bang in the first place?

Absolutely, then I could post the cases on so you need not bother

 

[kenbro]

Adjust your body die to bump the shoulder back a little further. I use a comparator to measure the length (to shoulder) of my fired cases then bump the shoulder back .002 to .004 inches. I use the same body die as you to bump the shoulder. This only works on cases fired in the same chamber. Cases fired in a different rifle will have formed to that rifles chamber; these cases will need to be FL sized back to spec.
N

This the problem….the body die already pushing at max.

Today I fired some loads I’d made up using virgin Lapua brass.
Tried one in the body die tonight and voila, it fits in the Wilson case gauge.
So why won’t the several times fired (Different brand) cases do the same?
Ken.
Ps. The other brass was new PPU.

 

[Ttocs]

Did you anneal the brass before using the body die? it could be spring back - this is where the comparator is useful as you can perform a very accurate before and after measurement to get a precise bump on the shoulder to suit your specific rifles chamber.
It may be the case that after several firings the Lapua brass stretches to the point it gets tight too. If you’re body die is maxed out, ie the shell holder is in full contact with it, use a thinner shell holder or turn/grind a few thou of the end of the body die or the top of the shell holder to get more bump.
N

 

[BE Precision]

I thought, one of the beauties of a body die was its ability to bump the shoulder of a loaded cartridge?
Kb.

I think you should read the instructions again, see attachment in post #6, the note at the bottom in UPPERCASE!

I’d bin the old brass and move across to the Lapua, or switch to full length sizing which is widely considered the thing to do now for accuracy, consistency and functionality.