Certificate Renewal

Sinistral

Well-Known Member
This week I'm embarking on my 10th Renewal under the tripartite Beds/Cambs/Herts FLD (BCH), as one of the cyclical 'peak' of FAC-holders caused by the change to a 5-year term in 1995. I've always had good relations with my FLD, but am simply at a loss to understand the tone of the renewal reminder letter which has turned up. The past ones have been always been polite but firm, but this one seems very brusque. Accordingly I've decided this will be my last renewal as it's all become an ordeal. The outright refusal to accept paper forms is going to cause problems for many.

It's been clear for some time that firearms licensing is a job that the police top management don't want to do, but they're lumbered with it. Due to insufficient staff and poor funding the licensing regime has become hostile to shooters who are just trying to carry on with their hobby. It's no-one's fault, but the politicians [the Tories!] are to blame.
It really needs to be standardised, and centralised under a government agency like DVLA because every force is different.

Applicants are being given 20 week notice reminders due to long delays by BCH, which is fair. It used to be 12 weeks notice, so perhaps the S28 8-week extension has been integrated. That's all good, no problem with it. However, other shooters have told me about all sorts of problems they've experienced with minor mistakes, which aren't being picked up. It's obviously their own fault for not spotting them first, but they say the FLD are sitting on applications until it's very late in the day to put things right. The trouble is the nature of what's very much a legal process. In particular they've warned me to check & double-check that the 201 medical questionnaire is filled in exactly as instructed in page 2 of the letter. Errors on these made by the surgery aren't being picked up & advised to the applicant by the FLD until months after receipt, so the renewal application then isn't valid and can be voided at will by Licensing.
I've had to return mine twice so far to stop this happening. Only the GP can amend it, as it's a criminal offence for anyone else to change the form later. Reception won't post it for confidentiality reasons, it has to be collected in person. My patient record is covered in FAC/SGC warning marker codes below which appear on every screen, even for routine jabs. The staff have been told to scan in all completed medical forms to stop fraud (alterations are being made afterwards by patients apparently . . who would have believed it?). The police idea of secure electronic transfer from practices is really a non-starter, which will prejudice the applicant if the FLD isn't doing any screening checks.

Clinical Codes on NHS (TPP) PATIENT RECORD SYSTEM
Coded Entry Has firearm certificate (XaYbl)
Coded Entry Shotgun Application Cert. (9D8..)
Coded Entry Has applied for firearm certificate (Y324f)
Coded Entry Firearm certificate suitability reviewed by GP (Y36df)


I'll be doing my renewal on the new computer system, which sounds like it has been changed since using it last time, which was over a couple of days. There wasn't a problem then in saving the record in stages, or the final version which people are reporting. If there's any technical way of doing this there'll be more from me on this front.;)
 

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Last edited:
This week I'm embarking on my 10th Renewal under the tripartite Beds/Cambs/Herts FLD (BCH), as one of the cyclical 'peak' of FAC-holders caused by the change to a 5-year term in 1995. I've always had good relations with my FLD, but am simply at a loss to understand the tone of the renewal reminder letter which has turned up. The past ones have been always been polite but firm, but this one seems very brusque. Accordingly I've decided this will be my last renewal as it's all become an ordeal. The outright refusal to accept paper forms is going to cause problems for many.

It's been clear for some time that firearms licensing is a job that the police top management don't want to do, but they're lumbered with it. Due to insufficient staff and poor funding the licensing regime has become hostile to shooters who are just trying to carry on with their hobby. It's no-one's fault, but the politicians [the Tories!] are to blame.
It really needs to be standardised, and centralised under a government agency like DVLA because every force is different.

Applicants are being given 20 week notice reminders due to long delays by BCH, which is fair. It used to be 12 weeks notice, so perhaps the S28 8-week extension has been integrated. That's all good, no problem with it. However, other shooters have told me about all sorts of problems they've experienced with minor mistakes, which aren't being picked up. It's obviously their own fault for not spotting them first, but they say the FLD are sitting on applications until it's very late in the day to put things right. The trouble is the nature of what's very much a legal process. In particular they've warned me to check & double-check that the 201 medical questionnaire is filled in exactly as instructed in page 2 of the letter. Errors on these made by the surgery aren't being picked up & advised to the applicant by the FLD until months after receipt, so the renewal application then isn't valid and can be voided at will by Licensing.
I've had to return mine twice so far to stop this happening. Only the GP can amend it, as it's a criminal offence for anyone else to change the form later. Reception won't post it for confidentiality reasons, it has to be collected in person. My patient record is covered in FAC/SGC warning marker codes below which appear on every screen, even for routine jabs. The staff have been told to scan in all completed medical forms to stop fraud (alterations are being made afterwards by patients apparently . . who would have believed it?). The police idea of secure electronic transfer from practices is really a non-starter, which will prejudice the applicant if the FLD isn't doing any screening checks.

Clinical Codes on NHS (TPP) PATIENT RECORD SYSTEM
Coded Entry Has firearm certificate (XaYbl)
Coded Entry Shotgun Application Cert. (9D8..)
Coded Entry Has applied for firearm certificate (Y324f)
Coded Entry Firearm certificate suitability reviewed by GP (Y36df)


I'll be doing my renewal on the new computer system, which sounds like it has been changed since using it last time, which was over a couple of days. There wasn't a problem then in saving the record in stages, or the final version which people are reporting. If there's any technical way of doing this there'll be more from me on this front.;)
I don't have a problem with the wording, timescales and the apparent inability of both the police and GP to liaise directly with each other leaves a lot to be desired
 
apparent inability of both the police and GP to liaise directly with each other leaves a lot to be desired
It's quite simple, they can't, the law prevents it.

Your GP has a duty of confidentiality with you.
You request the medical form and pay for it, that's with the form is returned to you.
If you then choose to apply for a certificate and enclose the medical form, which gives your permission for the GP and police to discuss your medical conditions, they can then talk directly.

In addition, it's important that you see and read the completed form before you sign off your application.

M.
 
This week I'm embarking on my 10th Renewal under the tripartite Beds/Cambs/Herts FLD (BCH), as one of the cyclical 'peak' of FAC-holders caused by the change to a 5-year term in 1995. I've always had good relations with my FLD, but am simply at a loss to understand the tone of the renewal reminder letter which has turned up. The past ones have been always been polite but firm, but this one seems very brusque. Accordingly I've decided this will be my last renewal as it's all become an ordeal. The outright refusal to accept paper forms is going to cause problems for many.

It's been clear for some time that firearms licensing is a job that the police top management don't want to do, but they're lumbered with it. Due to insufficient staff and poor funding the licensing regime has become hostile to shooters who are just trying to carry on with their hobby. It's no-one's fault, but the politicians [the Tories!] are to blame.
It really needs to be standardised, and centralised under a government agency like DVLA because every force is different.

Applicants are being given 20 week notice reminders due to long delays by BCH, which is fair. It used to be 12 weeks notice, so perhaps the S28 8-week extension has been integrated. That's all good, no problem with it. However, other shooters have told me about all sorts of problems they've experienced with minor mistakes, which aren't being picked up. It's obviously their own fault for not spotting them first, but they say the FLD are sitting on applications until it's very late in the day to put things right. The trouble is the nature of what's very much a legal process. In particular they've warned me to check & double-check that the 201 medical questionnaire is filled in exactly as instructed in page 2 of the letter. Errors on these made by the surgery aren't being picked up & advised to the applicant by the FLD until months after receipt, so the renewal application then isn't valid and can be voided at will by Licensing.
I've had to return mine twice so far to stop this happening. Only the GP can amend it, as it's a criminal offence for anyone else to change the form later. Reception won't post it for confidentiality reasons, it has to be collected in person. My patient record is covered in FAC/SGC warning marker codes below which appear on every screen, even for routine jabs. The staff have been told to scan in all completed medical forms to stop fraud (alterations are being made afterwards by patients apparently . . who would have believed it?). The police idea of secure electronic transfer from practices is really a non-starter, which will prejudice the applicant if the FLD isn't doing any screening checks.

Clinical Codes on NHS (TPP) PATIENT RECORD SYSTEM
Coded Entry Has firearm certificate (XaYbl)
Coded Entry Shotgun Application Cert. (9D8..)
Coded Entry Has applied for firearm certificate (Y324f)
Coded Entry Firearm certificate suitability reviewed by GP (Y36df)


I'll be doing my renewal on the new computer system, which sounds like it has been changed since using it last time, which was over a couple of days. There wasn't a problem then in saving the record in stages, or the final version which people are reporting. If there's any technical way of doing this there'll be more from me on this front.;)
@Conor O'Gorman another FLD that seemingly won’t paper.
 
It's quite simple, they can't, the law prevents it.

Your GP has a duty of confidentiality with you.
You request the medical form and pay for it, that's with the form is returned to you.
If you then choose to apply for a certificate and enclose the medical form, which gives your permission for the GP and police to discuss your medical conditions, they can then talk directly.

In addition, it's important that you see and read the completed form before you sign off your application.

M.
Surely the requirements of the firearms act overides patient confidentiality, i.e no GP involvement equates to no FAC or SGC?
 
Surely the requirements of the firearms act overides patient confidentiality, i.e no GP involvement equates to no FAC or SGC?
No, it does override it.
But your right, "no GP form means no certificate"
The individual still has a choice, to apply for a certificate or not.

Ok, it may feel a very subtle difference.
But the individual gives permission.

M
 
No, it does override it.
But your right, "no GP form means no certificate"
The individual still has a choice, to apply for a certificate or not.

Ok, it may feel a very subtle difference.
But the individual gives permission.

M
I'm not disagreeing with you but to my mind it would be far more efficient if the GP and FLD communicated directly, although the whole matter is a fool's errand as what the FLD really would like to know is whether you are likely to become unstable during the lifetime of the new certificate, guesswork based on distant history seems to be a poor second best
 
It's quite simple, they can't, the law prevents it.

Your GP has a duty of confidentiality with you.
You request the medical form and pay for it, that's with the form is returned to you.
If you then choose to apply for a certificate and enclose the medical form, which gives your permission for the GP and police to discuss your medical conditions, they can then talk directly.

In addition, it's important that you see and read the completed form before you sign off your application.

I would've thought anything that could affect my safe ownership/use of firearm is automatically reported to the police ,hence the marker.The firearms marker so I'm led to believe isn't compulsory,but if you have one applied to your medical records,l see no point upon renewal of any further medical forms having to be filled in.
 
whether you are likely to become unstable during the lifetime of the new certificat
As I see it, there are several 'controls' built into the Licencing process.
1. Review of medical history: Your right, this does not guarantee the future. But it will highlight some people who's history means they are not suitable, or further information is required to help the FLO decide.
2. Flag on medical records: This is intended to help identify problems that may arise during the life of the certicate. Not perfect, because some people rarely see their GP.
3. References: This can be a very effective control if applied properly.
My referees are close acquaintances, is see them most days.
I have given my referees, and indeed other close family, my blessing to contact the police if they saw a change in behaviour that made them feel concerned. I put it to them, that if it was a real melt down (tiggered by some future unforeseeable event) then they'd actually be doing me a great favour.

M
 
.l would've thought anything that could affect my safe ownership/use of firearm is automatically reported to the police ,hence the marker.T
Yes your right about the marker.
But that is because, when you filled in and signed the form, you have given your GP permission to do that.
Your right to confidentiality has not been overridden, you've given it up in this situation.

M.
 
2. Flag on medical records: This is intended to help identify problems that may arise during the life of the certicate. Not perfect, because some people rarely see their GP.
A worrying aspect of the whole system (for me) is the widely held belief that GPs are made to flag up relevant health issues to the FLD.

I have direct knowledge of one elderly FAC and SGC holder who was diagnosed with dementia. Despite him being a danger on the road and not fit to be entrusted with firearms the GP did not contact the FLD or DVLA.

As such he had been allowed to carry on driving. Following concerns being raised over a period of months to the FLD by numerous concerned individuals, thankfully he is no longer in possession of firearms
 
It's quite simple, they can't, the law prevents it.

Your GP has a duty of confidentiality with you.
You request the medical form and pay for it, that's with the form is returned to you.
If you then choose to apply for a certificate and enclose the medical form, which gives your permission for the GP and police to discuss your medical conditions, they can then talk directly.

In addition, it's important that you see and read the completed form before you sign off your application.

M.
That is not the case in Scotland, or at least in Ayrshire.

My GP provided the medical report directly to Police Scotland and I did not receive a copy.

There is no opportunity in the process for me to validate the contents of the report.
 
That is not the case in Scotland, or at least in Ayrshire.

My GP provided the medical report directly to Police Scotland and I did not receive a copy.

There is no opportunity in the process for me to validate the contents of the report.
Mine went straight to the fld.I only knew it had been completed when l checked on ask-mid.I would think in signing the medical document you are giving your permission.
 
Mine went straight to the fld.I only knew it had been completed when l checked on ask-mid.I would think in signing the medical document you are giving your permission.
Yes absolutely, and I have no issue with the process.

Just pointing out is seems very different to what the MAH is saying is the process in his area
 
There is no opportunity in the process for me to validate the contents of the report
Wow..
Blimey..
In Cheshire I recall I had to sign a declaration words to the effect " ive not suffered from the above medical conditions and they're are not listed on my records ".

TBH I've never seen my actual medical records.
So it was important to me to see the doctor's medical form before is signed the application.
 
That is not the case in Scotland, or at least in Ayrshire.

My GP provided the medical report directly to Police Scotland and I did not receive a copy.

There is no opportunity in the process for me to validate the contents of the report.
Did you sign a consent form to allow your GP to do that? ,eg the blank medical form
 
Wow..
Blimey..
In Cheshire I recall I had to sign a declaration words to the effect " ive not suffered from the above medical conditions and they're are not listed on my records ".
Yes, we have that requirement on the application form and is part of the sign-off (apart from the “not listed” bit)
 
A worrying aspect of the whole system (for me) is the widely held belief that GPs are made to flag up relevant health issues to the FLD.

I have direct knowledge of one elderly FAC and SGC holder who was diagnosed with dementia. Despite him being a danger on the road and not fit to be entrusted with firearms the GP did not contact the FLD or DVLA.

As such he had been allowed to carry on driving. Following concerns being raised over a period of months to the FLD by numerous concerned individuals, thankfully he is no longer in possession of firearms
I have known several GPs who are OH specialists absolutely and knowingly fail to report drivers to DVLA for prescribed conditions
 
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