Changes to antique firearms law

Conor O'Gorman

Well-Known Member
The Antique Firearms Regulations 2021 will become law today, on Monday 22 March 2021.

This means that if a firearm does not conform to the specifications in the Regulations, it cannot be classified as an antique firearm in law and cannot be possessed under the exemption at Section 58(2) of the Firearms Act 1968.

The new Regulations contain an appendix (Appendix 3) which is a list of centre-fire cartridges. This replaces the “Obsolete Calibres list” in the “Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law” of April 2016. If a firearm is chambered for a cartridge listed in this Appendix then it is considered to be an antique; if it is not, it isn’t.

There are seven cartridges which are no longer on the list. Firearms chambered for these cartridges will no longer be regarded as antiques:

.320 revolver (.320 British)
.41 Colt (long and Short)
.44 Smith and Wesson Russian
.442 (.44 Webley)
9.4mm Dutch
10.6mm German
11mm French M1873 (Army)

For more information click link below:

 
I'm interested to know if anyone has, so far, applied to retain a 'Firearm of Historic Interest' which has been removed from the obsolete calibre list. I was under the impression that pre-1919 could be retained via an FAC variation (Section 5?)

I asked my firearms officer today about retaining a 1900 Colt revolver on FAC and was advised that this was not possible, only options being sell/deact/surrender. Is this correct?
 
Depending on calibre, specifically those listed above, I am not sure the pre 1919 bit works.

Regards

Mark
 
There are quite a number of really interesting rifle cartridges now added to the list including many old Double Rifle and Mannlicher cartridges.
 
I don't really understand. Ancient firearms of all sorts are able to be pressed into service to commit crime. However crudely, you can make ammo (or muzzle load them) so that they will work after a fashion. So following on from the reasoning of the authorities that these firearms can be stolen and used by criminals doesn't really hold water. The same can be said of any and every firearm held legally except probably those now made to be currently deactivated.

There will come a time when it's illegal to possess potato peelers.
 
I don't really understand. Ancient firearms of all sorts are able to be pressed into service to commit crime. However crudely, you can make ammo (or muzzle load them) so that they will work after a fashion. So following on from the reasoning of the authorities that these firearms can be stolen and used by criminals doesn't really hold water. The same can be said of any and every firearm held legally except probably those now made to be currently deactivated.

There will come a time when it's illegal to possess potato peelers.

These calibres were removed from the list of antiques because criminals were buying them as such and finding ways to make the ammunition. which in the case of the .44 Russian was very easy.
 
You , and people as gullible as you , do you really think if criminals hadn’t been making ammunition for this calibre they wouldn’t have been getting it in another cal or using a different type of weapon , this legislation will have zero effect on crime or the murder rate , the only people it will affect ( as usual ) are law abiding firearms owners
 
You , and people as gullible as you , do you really think if criminals hadn’t been making ammunition for this calibre they wouldn’t have been getting it in another cal or using a different type of weapon , this legislation will have zero effect on crime or the murder rate , the only people it will affect ( as usual ) are law abiding firearms owners
Why do you present yourself as such an obnoxious individual. I was merely pointing out to Pedro the reason for the change in legislation was not due to the theft of such calibres. Why don't you read the Gov't paper on it.
 
Why do you present yourself as such an obnoxious individual. I was merely pointing out to Pedro the reason for the change in legislation was not due to the theft of such calibres. Why don't you read the Gov't paper on it.
I present myself as a realist , it won’t affect crime rates or criminals getting hold of firearms and ammunition , I’ll let you into a little secret ........ criminals have very little respect for the law and rarely do as it says .... shhhhhhh 🤫🤫🤫
 
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I present myself as a realist , it won’t affect crime rates or criminals getting hold of firearms and ammunition , I’ll let you into a little secret ........ criminals have very little respect for the law and rarely do as it says .... shhhhhhh 🤫🤫🤫
Why don't you remove yourself and your contribution to off topic. Oh and you have now become an irrelevance. Bye
 
The alternative s7.1 and s7.3 are very different from what, I understand, is this new reclassification.

This new classification in effect merely reverts these calibres back to the status they held IN ANY CASE as s1 from the passing of the Firearms Act 1920 until the introduction of the "obsolete calibre list" that took them out of s1.

Both s7.1 and s7.3 require the applicant to possess a genuine interest in those weapons or that period of that weapon's debut and must (or did have to be) require supporting evidence of that interest.

To my mind this re-classification in effect a reversion to the "status quo ante" that existed up to the introduction of the "obsolete calibres list" puts them, almost, as if they were "trophies of war". So pistols, yes, but neither s7.1 nor s7.3 but s1.

Will it affect crime? Certainly it is intended to and as I wrote here or on another thread it is the response to Paul Edmunds and his activities.
 
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Existing Owners of Former Antique Firearms​

17. Section 126(4) to (7) of the 2017 Act and Regulation 3 of the Commencement Regulations make transitional provisions for existing owners of former antique firearms who want to continue to possess them.

18. Regulation 3(1) and (2) of the Commencement Regulations allow existing owners to retain on a firearm certificate (or shotgun certificate, if applicable) any firearms they possess that were previously held as antiques but which no longer fall within the definition of “antique firearm” as a result of the amendments to section 58 of the 1968 Act and the Antique Regulations. Existing owners are those people who possessed such a firearm immediately before the Commencement Regulations and Antique Regulations come into force on 22 March 2021. Under the Commencement Regulations, they will have six months (until 23:59 on 21 September 2021) – a transition period - to make an application to their local police force for a firearm or shotgun certificate or a variation to an existing certificate.

19. The vast majority of firearms affected are expected to be handguns and will therefore also become prohibited weapons under section 5(1)(aba) of the 1968 Act, from which they will no longer be exempt as a result of the changes. However, existing owners will be able to apply to possess them on a firearms certificate without needing a section 5 authority (under section 126(5) of the 2017 Act - but see below in relation to dealers). In the case of any firearms which do not become prohibited weapons - for example, rifles – owners will be able to retain them on a firearm certificate too (see above in relation to the transition period during which such application can be made).

20. In all cases, the usual requirements for being granted a firearm certificate (or a shotgun certificate, if applicable), or for such a certificate being renewed, will apply, except it will not be necessary to show good reason for possessing the firearm (section 126(6) and (7) of the 2017 Act). The police will need to be satisfied that applicants are fit to be entrusted with the firearm, are not a prohibited person, and will not represent a danger to public safety or to the peace.

21. Applicants will be required to put in place appropriate security measures to prevent unauthorised access to their firearm(s). The precise arrangements are for the police to determine based on the level of risk involved in each case, taking account of factors such as local crime rates and location of the property, as set out in the Firearms Security Handbook 2020. However, the typical level of security required for handguns will be the same as for firearms possessed under section 7(1) of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997. This would normally mean level 2 security where no more than two such firearms are held in domestic premises, and level 3 otherwise.

22. The police will also need to determine what conditions to apply to firearm certificates they grant or vary. The key consideration is that these firearms should not be fired and we suggest a condition for pistols and revolvers along the lines of:

“In accordance with section 126 of the Policing and Crime Act 2017, the [calibre PISTOL/REVOLVER] shall be possessed only. Not to possess ammunition suitable for that firearm. Not to be fired.”

23. The Commencement Regulations provide that no offence will be committed under section 1(1)(a) or 2(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 (possession of a firearm or shotgun without a certificate) where someone has applied for a firearm certificate (or a shotgun certificate, if applicable) or a variation of one, during the 6 month transition period and their application remains outstanding or is the subject of an outstanding appeal. To evidence this, it is recommended that police forces issue acknowledgements of applications, and that applicants keep a copy of their application.

24. While the Government is content for existing owners of these firearms to retain them on a firearm certificate, it is not intended that those which are prohibited weapons should subsequently be traded. These weapons have been shown to be particularly attractive to criminals and often feature in crime. Selling or transferring them in the future will therefore not normally be permitted in order to minimise the possibility of them falling into criminal hands. Any future transaction involving such prohibited weapons would need to be authorised under section 5 of the 1968 Act in respect of both parties. While each case would be considered on its merits, a section 5 authority would not normally be granted for the public safety reasons set out above. The situation will be different where a firearm meets the criteria for a historic handgun under section 7 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and is licensed accordingly (see below) where the owner will, as now, be able to sell or transfer the firearm to other collectors with the relevant section 7 firearm certificate. See also the section below in relation to sale or transfer during the transition period.

Historic handguns​

25. Should a firearm meet the criteria for a historic handgun under sections 7(1) or 7(3) of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997, the owner can apply for a firearm certificate relying on one of those sections (see chapter 9 of the Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law). In accordance with section 7, a section 5 authority is not required where such a certificate is held.

26. The onus will be on applicants to demonstrate that their firearm meets the relevant criteria under section 7 of the 1997 Act, but the Home Office will also reinstate the Historic Firearms Reference Panel to assist police forces, where necessary, with additional technical and historical advice in relation to such applications. Police forces should refer any applications where they require the Panel’s advice to Andy Arnell at HistoricFirearmsReferencePanel@homeoffice.gov.uk, attaching relevant supporting documents and clearly highlighting the specific advice they need.
 
For the seven revolver models involved they can easily be placed on FAC (section 7.1) and you do not have to prove good reason to put them on FAC as per paragraph 20 above – they will also be a collection.
 
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