I was wondering if you British use dogs when hunting deer, other than for tracking ? Here in Scandinavia we have centuries long tradition for using running dogs a lot, especially when roe deer hunting. Roe deer and moose are the species where dogs running loose are very effective. It is nothing like your fox hunting with dogs, where a pack of dogs chase the prey, but a single dog is used. And it has to be a short legged dog. Dachs are most popular, but drevers and beagles are also used. We have laws regulating how longlegged a dog can be to be allowed used for roe deer hunting, but even if any dog could be used, using a fast longlegged dog would be counterproductive as they simply would chase the deer away. We will release the dog in the woods, and it will start to scan the ground for scents and when it finds one that is fresh enough to be exciting , it will follow that until he spots the roe deer and spook it. When that happens the dog will start baying, alerting the hunters, and it will continue baying while following the scent of that running deer. But the thing is that the roe deer, while when spooked will take off, will always stop and investigate after a few hundred meters. And when he sees the dog with those ridicules short legs, the deer will know that he can run in circles around the dog. He will know that the dog doesn't present a danger for him. It's no way that dog can catch up with him. So the roe deer will not leave the area, but move around. It will "tour" as we call it. Of course that dog is annoying, and when the dog gets near enough the deer will take off and run to keep the distance. The danger for the deer is the hunters, that can hear the constant baying and knows that the deer will be a couple of hundred meters ahead of the baying. The best dogs are when they start to get a bit old, and aren't that fast anymore. A too eager and powerful male Dachs can make the roe deer decide that he is dangerous after all, and than it will be in the next county in a couple of minutes. On moose too, free running dogs are used. But they react quite different from the roe deer. They will want to kill that annoying baying rat, and do its best to achieve that goal. A short legged dog like a dachs or drever would not stand a chance, so more powerful and smarter dogs are used. Moose hounds are used. I saw a YouTube clip a while back where two German Shepards on the loose was baying against a moose cow and here calf. The moose massacred those two dogs, so it's not enough to be powerful, the dog must be smart. The red deer is another matter. They dont behave like the roe deer, a reed deer will run off and disappear by the first bark. The trick here is to anticipate where it will take off, in valleys they will always head straight up the mountains. So to wait for them up there is only way. Its hard work for those going up there, and its years since I did it, but its makes for exciting hunting. I have no dogs of my own, but luckily have friends with dogs. Using dogs gives the hunt another dimension.
Chasing dogs for deer.
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Fascinating!
Keith Edmunds
Well-Known Member
I have a lot of friends who use teckels for 'driving' and I am sure the use of a single dog driving a single deer 'could' work in the UK where the woodland is large enough for the roe NOT to leave the area. However, with small woods the deer soon leave and run over the arable fields until they reach the next block of woodland.
All things considered, I think that stalking on foot is more efficient, although the 'driving' method - one dog - is certainly exciting. Also we have a lot of general public wandering footpaths and thus try to be as discreet as possible. When any of my teckels are on deer or hare trail..yip yip yip yip - everybody knows about it.
All things considered, I think that stalking on foot is more efficient, although the 'driving' method - one dog - is certainly exciting. Also we have a lot of general public wandering footpaths and thus try to be as discreet as possible. When any of my teckels are on deer or hare trail..yip yip yip yip - everybody knows about it.
Cumbrian 1
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen a roe buck trying to hit a jack Russell with it’s antlers that was yapping and trying to bite, the buck wasn’t spooked but quite pi$$ed off.
I’ve also hunted in Sweden for moose with a single elk hound and that was fascinating.
I’ve also hunted in Sweden for moose with a single elk hound and that was fascinating.
dunwater
Well-Known Member
No, we don’t use driving dogs for several reasons.
Our hunting territories are generally much smaller than yours, and dogs leaving your area and entering the neighbours area are not welcome.
We have a lot more livestock around the place than you do.
We have a far higher population of deer per hectare than you have, release a dog and you’ll most likely lose it as it will probably move more than one animal and then skip from track to track.
Here in Ireland we have no roe, the deer species do we have gather in herds.
In the UK there are muntjac and CWD to contend with as well as roe, again populations can be very high.
So a very different hunting culture has developed.
I have hunted in Sweden many times, I love it, and hopefully I’ll be over again in September, but in comparison to home you have very few animals, the first thing that visitors from Sweden remark on, other than the cold, the rain and the mountains, is the sheer number of deer they see, to spot 100+ in a morning isn’t unusual.
Our hunting territories are generally much smaller than yours, and dogs leaving your area and entering the neighbours area are not welcome.
We have a lot more livestock around the place than you do.
We have a far higher population of deer per hectare than you have, release a dog and you’ll most likely lose it as it will probably move more than one animal and then skip from track to track.
Here in Ireland we have no roe, the deer species do we have gather in herds.
In the UK there are muntjac and CWD to contend with as well as roe, again populations can be very high.
So a very different hunting culture has developed.
I have hunted in Sweden many times, I love it, and hopefully I’ll be over again in September, but in comparison to home you have very few animals, the first thing that visitors from Sweden remark on, other than the cold, the rain and the mountains, is the sheer number of deer they see, to spot 100+ in a morning isn’t unusual.
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Jagare
Well-Known Member
Hunting a teckle on roe would work perfectly well in the UK. Up on our shoot we have plenty of deer,roe ,fallow and boar. Roe will follow regular paths out of the wood so it's about knowing your ground and where to place the guns. I've hunted on ground where there were lot of fallow and they were driven by dogs and I seem to remember 40+ were shot that day. Suprise, suprise, no unsafe shooting from the guns and very few follow ups.
Most domestic stock is inside in the winter apart from sheep. So where's the problem.
The real reason is that the UK stalker like to be secretive and heaven forbid you would enjoy a days hunting with your mate.
Most domestic stock is inside in the winter apart from sheep. So where's the problem.
The real reason is that the UK stalker like to be secretive and heaven forbid you would enjoy a days hunting with your mate.
Keith Edmunds
Well-Known Member
.......they were driven by dogs .......... We could only use two dogs max.
In my area I stand totally by what has been said above (a) Too much noise and commotion - the general public would be alerted (b) For even a 30 acre would I would imagine you need at least 6 'Guns' - probably more (c) The deer would be shot at as they left the woodland and ran across arable fields.
Good fun?...Yes.........
Efficient? hmmm, probably not as efficient as our normal stalking method.
Good PR with your local neighbours? No, it would make matters worse sadly.
Curried Venison
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing, especially the detail about how the dogs are used. As someone who is curious about all sorts of hunting, I found it a really interesting read.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
I have some fantastic books on hunting deer using lurchers.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Dogs inthat we can only hunt with one dog but it's planned so that each dog handler covers his allotted area of the hunt.
Of course you need a team of Guns. Is it so direr in the UK that all stalkers are , Billy no mates.
I stalked 35 years in the UK before moving here so I may have a little idea about the Stalking in the UK. I also know that there are plenty of place that hunting with a teckle would work well.
Not a effective way of hunting? Who said it was and how is the traditional English stalking way working keeping the fallow population of the south of England under control?
I agree on the efficiency part, when we are talking about open fields and moors where they can be spotted en and stalked. But ours terrain is woodland, and lots of it. You can sit your self down by a well used deer track and wait. Are they around today? Or do they keep them selves at another part of the woods today? You need hours to decide that. Or, release a dog and send him off scanning the woods. You will know within 20 minutes whether you will se a deer today or not. If nothing happens, call in the dog and drive to another part for a new try.
Regarding humoring the neighbors, it depends on the neighbors. Maybe we are fortunate here in Norway, where hunting has a high social acceptance. I remember many years ago, my brother in law, my self and a couple of other friends was roe deer hunting with a Dachs not far from Stavanger. The woods we hunted had couple of narrow gravel forrest roads used by the general public for leisure hikes. We had already had a successful drive, shot a roe deer and decided to call it quit. It was a beautiful day, so we made a fire and put the kettle over, while one of the guys went for a car so we could haul the deer out. While we were sitting there I heard children's noises, and yes, there came a group of kids strolling the gravel road, with a group of moms following 50 meters behind them. I regretted immediately that we had not hidden the dead and gutted deer better. It was hanging from a tree branch in plain view. I watched the kids as they passed by, chatting and acting like kids. They gave us a brief glance, but didn't spot the deer. Then came the moms. Moms see every thing. They spotted the deer immediately and shouted to the kids: "come back here, and you can se a deer!!" The kids came back, curious and inspected the dead deer thoroughly. We had a chat with both the moms and the kids. The kids wanted to see the guns and one of them asked if he could shoot at the deer too. We had to disappoint him on that one. There was no negative remarks at all. Not from the moms and not from the kids. Ok, this was country people, but hunters doesn't receive a lot of negative press here. Off course because everyone has a dad, granddad, uncle or brother that hunts.
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Sometimes i wish we could but taking in all aspects i am sure folks would use the law in the wrong way
DaveNeal
Well-Known Member
The French/Spanish use Gascon Saintongeois , scent hounds. they're more as flushers rather than dispatchers like the UK fox hounds used to be used. check them out on YouTube, it's like a comedy show of dogs running, singing, crapping, crapping while singing, singing whilst crapping and running.
This is our one, old boy Quino, rescued and retired but he still loves a sing
This is our one, old boy Quino, rescued and retired but he still loves a sing
forestgimp1
Well-Known Member
Not common practice in the uk, probably because you don’t have to work as hard to find a deer
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
In the UK we like to stick to our traditional ways. The sport of deer stalking was introduced by Prince Albert in the mid 1800’s and i rather suspect he was mimicking how the Germans hunt Gams in the Alps.
In previous generations we used to drive Roe to lines of guns, and I understand these were an effective way of managing the population.
Our lowland deer management has followed the upland deer stalking - ie spot a deer and then try and get in close.
Mention tactics and methods that work very well elsewhere to the UK - and you will get cries of derision. Could never work here etc etc.
I can certainly see how putting a few rifles around a block of woodland. Put a couple of beaters into wood with a couple of dogs and quietly walk in a big circular / figure 8 pattern. Any deer will be forced to move and give opportunities fir the rifles.
Only real downside is that most UK stalkers don’t and don’t know how to shoot at moving targets. It’s not that difficult with a bit of training and practice.
In previous generations we used to drive Roe to lines of guns, and I understand these were an effective way of managing the population.
Our lowland deer management has followed the upland deer stalking - ie spot a deer and then try and get in close.
Mention tactics and methods that work very well elsewhere to the UK - and you will get cries of derision. Could never work here etc etc.
I can certainly see how putting a few rifles around a block of woodland. Put a couple of beaters into wood with a couple of dogs and quietly walk in a big circular / figure 8 pattern. Any deer will be forced to move and give opportunities fir the rifles.
Only real downside is that most UK stalkers don’t and don’t know how to shoot at moving targets. It’s not that difficult with a bit of training and practice.
Martiniblack577
Well-Known Member
‘Pleased you grew up’….
I do wonder how many have seen one or two running dogs take a deer the size of a Roe ? its not pretty nor humane and it generally ends up in a stabbing fest by the " person who owns the dog / dogs as the dogs grab what they can (often the rear end ) . A far cry from the swift end of a pack of foxhounds did the deed, that takes less time than a rifle shot in most instances and i never witnessed a slow inhumane end .
Pretty sure its still legal in England to use a dog on Rabbits in England ? Certainly is Rats ! My own childhood was well packed with ferrets , dogs and nets .
Pretty sure its still legal in England to use a dog on Rabbits in England ? Certainly is Rats ! My own childhood was well packed with ferrets , dogs and nets .
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