City Rich Boy Syndicates

[tika.308]

you are spot on there sikamalc.

 

[DaveG]

You couldn't give me the name of this £60 a pheasant shoot could you as I'd like to talk with the head keeper and find out how they manage to get away with charging that amount. I wish I could, it would certainly sort out the shoot budget for next year. I might even get a new truck and quad out of it

yes greed is always a serious consideration in the budget for next year

Its got naff all to do with greed stone. It has everything to do with solving the constant necessity to make do and mend, and would allow for some additional habitat conservation work to be carried out without having to try and find the cash from any revenue source no matter how small.


So its a win -win solution if only it was a reality.




Plus my 6 year old truck and 5 year old quad would get replaced


Ah, if only!!!!!!!

i am still confused here as why would you want to speak to the head keeper selling pheasant shooting for £60 so you can see how you could manage to get away with charging that amount as you hav already given me part of the answer along with the ever rising prices of poults, feed, drugs,fuel, leases, keepers wage etc etc
all you hav to do is charge more as it looks like you run it as a buisiness , from what i understand this is how buisinesses work pass the rising cost to their buyers
job done

Confused! Why?

To true I'd like to speak to the guy and find out how he's managing to charge £60 or get away with producing syndicate birds at that rate as Poodle has claimed.

If only the world were as simplistic as the one you paint. Just pass on the ever rising costs to your customers. LOL Its a very competitive world out there stone! Business is not just about selling a service or product for what you need to in order to cover your costs and to make sufficient profit to allow you to retire to your 10K acre country estate at 50. I wish it were. If it was, it would always be a case of "We'll be millionaire this time next year Rodney!"

 

[stone]

Business is not just about selling a service or product for what you need to in order to cover your costs and to make sufficient profit "

so what is business about?
may be they could give it away for free or next to nothing, not make any money and retire as contancrass old farts living in a cardboard box somewhere
this is what comercial shoots do they sell their products and make a profit , if this shoot poddle is refering to can sell his products for that money then he is doing something right , if you need his advice then you are not as clever as you thought

 

[shortshot]

The very real threat to the sport posed by shoots openly charging per bird is something that threatens everyones sport..... how can anyone justify in reasoned arguement paying £30 to kill a bird that sells for 50 pence as a food product? Who could sit on a "Question Time-TV prog." and sucessfully defend commercial game shooting ethics when the economics are laid so bare?
Add the local environmental problems, the rural resentment and the countryside will be a much better place when the city money is compelled to take up "simulated game shooting." (preferably within their native borough.)

 

[stone]

yes shortshot
this you say is quite true,but costs hav to be covered , as the shoot i am involved with uses the money from game sales to help pay the beaters along with the beaters tip we take of the guns as 20 beaters and picker ups all need to be thanked these days as aswell as a days shooting for those guns and beaters that worked hard through the year to help prepare for the coming season
as the shoot i used to run many years ago was not to rip people off ,but to cover costs ,so the shoot would carry on into another year
but , alas to the land owner passing away and the new owner's passion for making money the shoot folded over night so leaving more time for stalking of which i am afraid is going much the same way there is alot to be said for comercial shooting good and bad
sadly i do not hav the funds available to compete that is why i pass on the costs of my stalking to the people that i take out on my ground
TOTAL COST =i pay nothing ,so they pay nothing and my guests even get a cooked breakfast if they are lucky
i am not bitter and twisted about it ,but just lucky i am able to share some of my luck and good fortune in getting good shooting/stalking for cheap /next to nothing for others to have a chance to be involved with

 

[stone]

just to add on what i hav said
this is the position i hav been lucky enough to find myself in, others may not be as lucky as that and those that hav to buy leases i know of a few that invite strangers to stalk/shoot for free and while others hav to pay that is their business and not mine to comment on just gratefull that these people exsist and willing to help others

 

[DaveG]

Business is not just about selling a service or product for what you need to in order to cover your costs and to make sufficient profit "

so what is business about?
may be they could give it away for free or next to nothing, not make any money and retire as contancrass old farts living in a cardboard box somewhere
this is what comercial shoots do they sell their products and make a profit , if this shoot poddle is refering to can sell his products for that money then he is doing something right , if you need his advice then you are not as clever as you thought

Its always good to edit people posts in order to try and reinforce your view Stone. As I said your some what simplistic view on what business is blinding you to the realities of life.

Correct commercial shoot do sell a product, they also need to make a profit in order to stay in business. However they operate in a COMMERCIAL market which by its very mean means that they have competition. In order to compete you have to be offering a product that your clients feel is value for money. That does not necessarily mean being the cheapest, or the most expensive. Hence my wish to speak to the Headkeeper. What else is he doing that add value to his product in such a mananer that allows him to charge £60 per bird.

Its a foolish man who believe he knows everything and can not learn from anyone else. A doctrine that I readily embrace. Whether that makes me clever or not, I wouldn't like to say

 

[DaveG]

The very real threat to the sport posed by shoots openly charging per bird is something that threatens everyones sport..... how can anyone justify in reasoned arguement paying £30 to kill a bird that sells for 50 pence as a food product? Who could sit on a "Question Time-TV prog." and sucessfully defend commercial game shooting ethics when the economics are laid so bare?
Add the local environmental problems, the rural resentment and the countryside will be a much better place when the city money is compelled to take up "simulated game shooting." (preferably within their native borough.)

Lets take your points one at a time.

1. Prices charged have no connection to the price received for the by product. Which a dead pheasant is on a commercial shoot. Unless of course you either receive an exceptional high price for the by product or incur additional costs for its disposal.

2. As long as those that provide the product and service and those that pay for them adhere to the strictest ethical standards. There is no ethic or moral dilemma, to be addressed. Ethically there is no difference between a large commercial shoot adhering to the highest standards and a small local 10 bird a day farm shoot who chuck a few ex layers down and hope for the best. Your still pulling the trigger on a living creature. Whether you pull the trigger 3 times or 300 times in the course of the day matter nowt.

3. what local environmental problem? What rural resentment. LOL
How do you think the countryside has become what it is today and will become tomorrow if not for city money? Or do land owners, farmers, estates, just pick wads of cash up off the ground or may be they are just given the huge sums required by that kind man sitting in his office in Whitehall and Brussels.

 

[DaveG]

as the shoot i used to run many years ago was not to rip people off ,but to cover costs ,so the shoot would carry on into another year
but , alas to the land owner passing away and the new owner's passion for making money the shoot folded over night

As I suspected a hint of sour grapes perhaps
Consider this! If perhaps the shoot had been run on a more commercial basis. With out relying so heavily on the previous landowners largess. There might just have been sufficient funds available to ensure its continued survival.

Like I said you can always learn something of benefit from life, no matter who you are or what your circumstances.

 

[stone]

no sour grapes
but as i hav already said it was run on a non profit making basis for a reason ,to provide good quality/cheap shooting which seems beyond your comprehension
may be i should of charged £25+ a bird changed from 100 bird days to 200+ bird days provided lunches and alcohol built a hunting lodge for all to sit in and accomodation for guns to stay overnight as the birds i was showing were more than most guns could handle , guns going home booking up for next year so i charge a bit more per bird and more the next year and so on, how comercial should i go untill i was upto £1000+ per gun per day and the stress to go with it
where is the enjoyment in that
enough about me
tell us more about your shoot as you say" you can always learn something of benefit from life, no matter who you are or what your circumstances "

 

[DaveG]

no sour grapes
but as i hav already said it was run on a non profit making basis for a reason ,to provide good quality/cheap shooting which seems beyond your comprehension
may be i should of charged £25+ a bird changed from 100 bird days to 200+ bird days provided lunches and alcohol built a hunting lodge for all to sit in and accomodation for guns to stay overnight as the birds i was showing were more than most guns could handle , guns going home booking up for next year so i charge a bit more per bird and more the next year and so on, how comercial should i go untill i was upto £1000+ per gun per day and the stress to go with it
where is the enjoyment in that
enough about me
tell us more about your shoot as you say" you can always learn something of benefit from life, no matter who you are or what your circumstances "

Good quality and cheap and high birds as well, Paradise, and very commendable of you. Like I said all produced at the largess of your landlord and doomed to ultimately suffer the fate that you have stated. What so stressful about running a lucrative business as opposed to a non- lucrative business?

As for my little shoot. Its the usual mixture of retained shooting, syndicate and let days. Some years we have more let days than others, it really depends upon how we view the market and what the other involved parties feel they want by way of shooting days and numbers in the bag. All linked to the need to provide a certain amount of revenue etc etc. Like I said, its no different to another other business. Balancing the books and making a profit as and when you can.

 

[shortshot]

Sport and money don't mix.
Look at soccer, motor racing, boxing etc all buggered up cos money is allowed to rule.
Due solely to commercial shooting there is a glut of pheasant and redleg partridges there's way more shot than the catering/food market wants so they're dumped or processed for pet food that is an indefensible in ethical terms.
Once you go commercial shoot wise, you get greedy and the whole job gets overdone, quality declines in favour of quantity. Gamebirds become a real nuisance to other local interests through crop damage, erosion, noise pollution, vechicular damage,rats everywhere etc etc. Shooting makes a lot of enemies from folk who were erstwhile tolerant neutrals or even former friends of the sport.... Why? who benefits? A group of city yuppies and a fat new moneyed absentee sporting entrepreneurs.

 

[DaveG]

Sport and money don't mix.
Look at soccer, motor racing, boxing etc all buggered up cos money is allowed to rule.
Due solely to commercial shooting there is a glut of pheasant and redleg partridges there's way more shot than the catering/food market wants so they're dumped or processed for pet food that is an indefensible in ethical terms.
Once you go commercial shoot wise, you get greedy and the whole job gets overdone, quality declines in favour of quantity. Gamebirds become a real nuisance to other local interests through crop damage, erosion, noise pollution, vechicular damage,rats everywhere etc etc. Shooting makes a lot of enemies from folk who were erstwhile tolerant neutrals or even former friends of the sport.... Why? who benefits? A group of city yuppies and a fat new moneyed absentee sporting entrepreneurs.

Could you explain to me how you would fund any of these sports without using money? Bearing in mind that there isn't a top sportsman competing today that isn't a professional is some manner or another.

The so called glut of game has very little to do with commercial shooting, and more to do with the increase of cheap eastern european and French intensively reared game entering the European market. the same is also true of the now appalling price paid by game dealers for on the hook deer carcases. You can thank the Kiwis for that along with the eastern Europeans.

You do appaer to have a very jaundiced view of shoots run on a commercial basis. However you'll just have to get use to it as its the only future there is for traditionally run shooting estates providing driven shooting. Unless of course you are fortunate enough to happen to be Poddles estate with their TV, Film, and media rich kids footing the bill.

 

[stone]

As for my little shoot. Its the usual mixture of retained shooting, syndicate and let days. Some years we have more let days than others, it really depends upon how we view the market and what the other involved parties feel they want by way of shooting days and numbers in the bag. All linked to the need to provide a certain amount of revenue etc etc. Like I said, its no different to another other business. Balancing the books and making a profit as and when you can.

well it looks like you hav the answer
stuff the syndicate ,sell more let days as you say it is your little shoot , so no need to consult anyone else on how many days they want to shoot or how big a bag they want , so the profit is all yours to make any amount you like and then spend it the way you would like
ie new truck and quad conservation what ever
but of course ,you can't can you ,
as you don't hav enough say do you.
probaly do not even hav the shooting rights in your name
but hey ho

 

[Beowulf]

Blimey Stone! 'Calm down dear, it's only a commerical'!