Classic/traditional sporting rifle recommendations

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

Not alot of money but I really rate the old CZ 600 rifles.

Solid, reliable and pretty accurate. The ones with the set triggers are nice aswell.

 

[RescueMe0007]

Calibres aside for a moment - I'm on the search for a second-hand classic/traditional looking wooden-stocked sporting rifle. I'm currently looking at the following two options:

• Steyr Mannlicher Classic or Luxus
• Heym SR 21

Does anyone have any first-hand experience with either? Or any others I should add to the shortlist?

Also looking at the Mauser M12 Expert in wood but struggling to find anything S/H in the calibres I'm looking at and a bit pricey new...

*For background, I already have a Sauer 100 in 6.5CM and a Remington 700 in .223 (both plastic stocks) so looking for something a little prettier in .308 or 30-06 for big Scottish Reds and African plains game...

I've had a Heym SR21 in 6.5 Swede since 2007. An absolute dinger, will out shoot me any time and a pleasure to use. More than adequate for any deer in Ireland or the UK and suitable for non-lead projectiles if that ever becomes compulsory.

 

[Nkawu]

Not sure if they have been mentioned already but the old Brno ZKK 600 (short action) and 601 (long action) are incredibly well put together rifles. If I wasn’t left handed I would get a 308 or 3006 with the pop up peep sight in a flash.

 

[norcan]

Not sure if they have been mentioned already but the old Brno ZKK 600 (short action) and 601 (long action) are incredibly well put together rifles. If I wasn’t left handed I would get a 308 or 3006 with the pop up peep sight in a flash.

One showed up used over here in Norway yesterday. 600 in 6,5x55. Unused since new in 93. £350

I am at Max hunting rifles now.. so not destined for me.

 

[CBH Australia]

Looking at my shooting environment here in Oz and if being forced to reduce the number of firearms I'd go for a .222 and a .308. Both of which I already have

Cheers

G'day from Australia.

I've had the .222, still have the .223 & .308

These seem to cover much of our needs and there are some others that I like.

Classic/Traditional makes me think Blued and Walnut. I don't own high end rifles but I like the idea of nice "Classic" rifles and fine English models.

 

[Nkawu]

One showed up used over here in Norway yesterday. 600 in 6,5x55. Unused since new in 93. £350

I am at Max hunting rifles now.. so not destined for me.

What a deal!

 

[Nrl72]

I've had a Heym SR21 in 6.5 Swede since 2007. An absolute dinger, will out shoot me any time and a pleasure to use. More than adequate for any deer in Ireland or the UK and suitable for non-lead projectiles if that ever becomes compulsory.

I've had a Heym SR21 in 6.5 Swede since 2007. An absolute dinger, will out shoot me any time and a pleasure to use. More than adequate for any deer in Ireland or the UK and suitable for non-lead projectiles if that ever becomes compulsory.

Heym are a lovely rifle .... I wanted a 6.5 Swede but am new to stalking and was warned off by all and sundry for lack of ammo choice in RoI so went .308 instead ...... mind me asking how you find getting 6.5 Sw. ammo ? Have you any problem picking up good rounds?

 

[RescueMe0007]

Heym are a lovely rifle .... I wanted a 6.5 Swede but am new to stalking and was warned off by all and sundry for lack of ammo choice in RoI so went .308 instead ...... mind me asking how you find getting 6.5 Sw. ammo ? Have you any problem picking up good rounds?

It can be a little hit and miss. Lots of RFD carry the chambering but the range of options is limited. I would think that 6.5 Creedmoor has had an impact because it has been heavily marketed and lots of newcomers have been steered in that direction. Its performance is almost identical, so very suitable for deer sized quarry (and lighter) in this jurisdiction. I generally find that RFD's stock 140 and/or 156gr rounds. As others have commented the American loadings can be a little anaemic because the factory loadings allow for older military surplus weapons (apparently very popular in the states), which are unable to safely deal with increased chamber pressures when trying to get the best performance from the Swede. Handloading is not specifically forbidden in this jurisdiction but attracts so many extra conditions that people are put off from trying it. If it were less onerous I would like to handload and get the best performance from my rifle and round. Hornady superformance in 140gr, SST seem relatively common and claim to have superior velocity (100-200fps faster than normal loadings) and thus energy at normal stalking ranges. I recently bought five boxes, they're expensive so I hope they live up to their assertions on live game. Have not had an opportunity to test them in the field yet. Hopefully soon. The other rounds I've used have been Nosler in 120gr and Sako in 130gr, both with polymer tips. They have performed very well, I've never recovered a round from an animal. All shots have passed through and through, with catastrophic damage to the internal organs and a substantial exit wound. The animals commonly drop on the spot or run less than 50 metres (more commonly 10 to 20 metres). I'm very content with the rifle and the chambering, it'll see me out!

 

[Nrl72]

Thanks very much for the reply .....the classic chambering appeals and I'd like one some day all the same ... hope the SSTs work out well for you ..... I hear great things obviously, but i haven't tried Hornady yet ..... my yoke just loves the Sako 150 grain and when it is throwing tight groups and is accurate / working (and available!), I've stayed put ..... the 6.5 Swede itch will have to be scratched some day mind!

 

[Scipio]

I have a mannlicher luxus with a 6x42 S&B and it certainly is a traditional style. It all works very well and I have no complaints. I have the single set trigger which I prefer to the double trigger ones.

Nice set up they call those "french (set) triggers" up in the italian part of tyrol, and yes, those are also my favourite, if the option is there.
I shot a sauer 100 or 101 that had them once as a part of a stalker training course in the dolomites, and i think a big reason as to why so many of the group shot it well was because of how a good set trigger can help elimate some of the common mistakes many shooters perhaps makes on the trigger pull.

As for the TS my biggest advice would be to of course do your research, as you are now, but then also try and find a well stocked gun dealer and handle the rifles you have in mind. Seeing, touching and throwing about something in person tends to settle quite a lot of the questions, very quickly.

As for choice of caliber, well that can depend on so many things, - how one handles recoil, will you be using a supressor, what one primarily wants to hunt, does one reload, do you intend to travel with it, and hunt boar, or maybe mountain hunt, where the distances these days can be quite long indeed etc.
Someone mentioned a 7x64 earlier, and if you want a caliber that can do most things in europe, and well, probably do most things barr dangerous/big african game hunting really, and which is easily obtainable in factory ammo, that might be a good bet.
I do hear 7x64 unsurpressed can kick a bit, so again, if you dont need that extra umf, a 7x57 could be a classic option for a classic unsurpressed rifle that might be nice to shoot, and will do what you need it to, inside regular hunting distances. But that might be better option for a reloader.

Just my 2 p

 

[Scipio]

Watch Holts for a Ron Wharton Mauser obendorf with HandH mounts in 275


View attachment 342990

wow, absolutely beautiful rifle, such simple and clean lines! It wouldnt look out of place on a safari in the 30ies or 40ies. Nice buck too

 

[Scipio]

I would have a good look at the Heym SR20 - its a beautiful rifle with none of the issues of the SR21.

Otherwise

Mauser Actioned rifles built by the likes of Rigby, TT Proctor, Ronald Wharton or Mauser are all well made and lovely rifles.

I also have a soft spot for old Mannlicher Schoeneurs - especially ones that have shot and regulated by British Gunmakers. I am talking the older pre 1970’s with machined metal fixed rotary magazines and butter knife bolt handles half way along the action.

The later Model M is also a nice rifle but they have a plastic rotary magazine and the plastics are going brittle.

If you want something a bit different go for a Ferlach or Suhl built single shot or combination gun.

Yep, those are pre 1972 models i believe, after which they went for mechanized production and changed several things about the design
I have a MS GK Stutzen, and i love it, but due to the bolt travelling as it does, the action is split, meaning that it needs quite special scope mounts to function, mounts and rings which might not fit all modern scopes in terms of length and tube diameter.

So unless one intends to shoot it with irons, or finds a MS with a scope one finds acceptable or, of course already have a scope to use on the MS which will fit the mount, it might be something to consider carefully, before purchasing. Some of these older german scopes on the MSes are pretty amazing though, so it's worth having a look through them first. There might not be a need to change anything, if you are lucky.
In terms of craftsmanship and beauty they really are something, and because they are not as popular and well reknowned these days, as they used to be 60 + years ago, they can be gotten fairly cheaply vs their quality and beauty.

 

[tusker]

I would have a look for a CZ550 in 30-06

My only other thought is that I have used both a 30-06 and more recently on the advice of a stalking directory member a 375 H and H with a moderator for plains game. I was really impressed with the 375 and would be reluctant to swap back to a 30-06

I keep thinking about swapping the 30-06 for something a bit smaller but I am not sure there is a lot of point really

My CZ 550in 30-06 has been my go to rifle for the last 20 years. I just love it.
Tusker

 

[Dhindes]

Steyr Luxus is a lovely rifle. All metal ( no issues with the mag unlike the M series) single trigger which you can push forward to set. Very accurate and lovely to handle. Check stock neck for any cracks. I picked up a nice 7x64 for less than 400. try to get one with scope mounts as these can be pricey.
Alternatives are clearly Mauser 98‘s - often cheap as chips. I really like Krico rifles - own a few - well rated in Germany but not so well known in UK.
Never fired a Tikka 55,695 etc I did not like.

 

[Dhindes]

Thinking about my earlier reply, I spoke to a professional hunter recently and he said that he didn’t understand why most people didn’t just have a .222 and a 9.3x62 with a ballistic scope. He used his out to very long (by UK standards) ranges on a huge variety of plains game.

I am sure he is absolutely correct, although I would be amazed if the police ever allowed me one for UK use.

I have both of these and would question the 9.3x62 for distance shots ( over 200m). Lots of drop and wind shift. Fantastic for under 200 m though. No issues with 222 - one of the best for smaller creatures

 

[Pine Marten]

I have used a Steyr-Mannlicher Classic in 7mm-08 for the last 12 years and I can't fault it. Apart from the aesthetics which are a matter of personal taste (mine!), the stock design makes it brilliant to handle, it's light enough to carry around all day, it shoots tiny groups with my Fox copper reloads, but it also did before with my lead ones, and Federal Premium ammunition (it hated the Remington stuff though), it's robust, easy to maintain, I mean there's nothing to complain about and it actually makes stalking a whole lot more enjoyable for me. It is not a target rifle though. After three shots the groups start to open out. But then I've never needed more than three shots when stalking. In fact I've only needed a second shot once so it's just not an issue.

 

[Scipio]

Beautiful rifle! How long is the barrel?

 

[Pine Marten]

Beautiful rifle! How long is the barrel?

Thanks! 50cm/20", overall length is just under 1.10m so a lovely compact thing too.

 

[Scipio]

Thanks! 50cm/20", overall length is just under 1.10m so a lovely compact thing too.

Yes my friend, i am on your wagon here. I have Mannlicher Schoenauer Stutzen in 7x57, so basically the grandfather, or father, to your steyr 7mm08 stutzen. Mine has a 20.5" barrel, so almost the same as yours

If you reload, may i ask what sort of powder you use to ensure sufficient powder burn in the short barrel? Because mine often, when shooting commerical ammo kind of sounds like an artilery cannon, and looks like it too, witch a big massive muzzle blast coming out of it. I even set a shooting mat on fire this way, once

 

[CBH Australia]

Yes my friend, i am on your wagon here. I have Mannlicher Schoenauer Stutzen in 7x57, so basically the grandfather, or father, to your steyr 7mm08 stutzen. Mine has a 20.5" barrel, so almost the same as yours

If you reload, may i ask what sort of powder you use to ensure sufficient powder burn in the short barrel? Because mine often, when shooting commerical ammo kind of sounds like an artilery cannon, and looks like it too, witch a big massive muzzle blast coming out of it. I even set a shooting mat on fire this way, once

Just chiming in on your post/question.

ADI Australia make various powders. The one I use in in a 20” 7mm-08 is named AR2208. The same powder is sold to Hodgdon powders in the US and labelled as Varget under the Hodgdon brand