Cocker for tracking

[User00025]

Almost any dog will track. I used Border terriers for years they being the steadiest of terriers in my view. I had two cockers and several other gundogs and both cockers were steady and would track deer as well as all other gundog functions.

 

[Antlerman]

Hi I had a Nuttal line Patterdale terrier I used for deer, it took some training for him to be patient but he was an awesome dog. He tracked shot deer, told you when they were around and even pointed, sadly I lost him 2 months ago at the age of 15 and he worked right up until he was 14 years. He even found a badly wounded doe someone had taken a pot shot at that he dragged down and dispatched with a choke hold before I could get to him.

Sorry to hear that mate. He had a good innings though. Sounded a great dog.

 

[Antlerman]

My cocker will track deer in a fashion but it’s rare I take him shooting unless in a deer box prefer to leave him in the car until needed which isn’t that often now I don’t have my own ground. Training for a warm blood trail I think any dog will do. I have now bought a border for this as my cocker just won’t sit still if it’s cold.

Not lost one yet even in thick stuff with the cocker and all I did to get him on the scent was every time I shot a deer marked the spot circled away from the dead deer bled it then went back out again. He soon picked up on the scent and would go into the throat/chest area where it’s bled the hardest part was getting him to sit still when gralloching. Have given him liver and deer hooves since he was a pup as well.

My only concern with him is going to a not quite dead deer so I always make sure he’s on and extending lead but tbh when he’s on the trail he just follows it.

When I was first starting I stalked with a guy who took me out had two cockers and they were rock steady and mustard so it can be done but I don’t think they naturally lend themselves to the siting part haha.

I’ve just getting a new bit of ground for stalking so not sure weather to just take her with me and train her on the job or just train once I’m home if I shoot one.

 

[mereside]

I’ve just getting a new bit of ground for stalking so not sure weather to just take her with me and train her on the job or just train once I’m home if I shoot one.

The problem everyone has with trying to train on the job is you cannot pay attention to the dog whilst stalking then frustration from the stalker when a dog whines runs or ruins a stalk, if you get the chance to shoot and the dog runs in you can never turn back time, in my opinion you want to do work for a steady dog and have that nailed as it’s been said any dog will follow a dead deer trail, with the correct shot placement and blood the dog will find it easy.
Train the dog for steadiness, take the dog stalking but without a rifle stalk in get close and give your attention to the dog and what you want with loads of praise sit watch and back out end on a positive.
This is with me assuming you have a pup to train, if your dog is already used to the gun and is already solid, there is no harm in shooting a deer and having your dog follow up on a dead deer, but here’s the thing, you need to know that it is a good shot and that deer is in fact dead. Have the dog on a long line to find the shot site, to check and give praise in finding that first, once you have a positive I’d that the deer is lung/ heart shot let the dog work the track under full control, where it always goes wrong is people don’t use a leash, no control and when a deer gets up and runs you have lost all control, no fault of the dog but at that point the dog will chase and cannot or hasn’t the ability to stop the deer then you have a dog that will run in at every opportunity, for the chase, very few dogs are hard wired to kill without training especially a cocker. Take things slowly as you have your dog for a long time and get the best from him/her.
The more you put in the more you get back, never put a dog into a situation it cannot succeed in, this is the hardest thing everyone in there own eyes has the best, but the thing is sometimes it’s better to use a more experienced dog for the best outcome, so start with skin drags dead deer even real trails go watch deer, walk a trail then after a few hours get your dog and have it follow that trail, give praise and come away, lots of things you can do to help, good luck, Wayne

 

[Antlerman]

The problem everyone has with trying to train on the job is you cannot pay attention to the dog whilst stalking then frustration from the stalker when a dog whines runs or ruins a stalk, if you get the chance to shoot and the dog runs in you can never turn back time, in my opinion you want to do work for a steady dog and have that nailed as it’s been said any dog will follow a dead deer trail, with the correct shot placement and blood the dog will find it easy.
Train the dog for steadiness, take the dog stalking but without a rifle stalk in get close and give your attention to the dog and what you want with loads of praise sit watch and back out end on a positive.
This is with me assuming you have a pup to train, if your dog is already used to the gun and is already solid, there is no harm in shooting a deer and having your dog follow up on a dead deer, but here’s the thing, you need to know that it is a good shot and that deer is in fact dead. Have the dog on a long line to find the shot site, to check and give praise in finding that first, once you have a positive I’d that the deer is lung/ heart shot let the dog work the track under full control, where it always goes wrong is people don’t use a leash, no control and when a deer gets up and runs you have lost all control, no fault of the dog but at that point the dog will chase and cannot or hasn’t the ability to stop the deer then you have a dog that will run in at every opportunity, for the chase, very few dogs are hard wired to kill without training especially a cocker. Take things slowly as you have your dog for a long time and get the best from him/her.
The more you put in the more you get back, never put a dog into a situation it cannot succeed in, this is the hardest thing everyone in there own eyes has the best, but the thing is sometimes it’s better to use a more experienced dog for the best outcome, so start with skin drags dead deer even real trails go watch deer, walk a trail then after a few hours get your dog and have it follow that trail, give praise and come away, lots of things you can do to help, good luck, Wayne

Thanks mate. All makes sense. She 2 now and steady. I’ll try with a skin drag and reward on a local farm back home the next time I shout one. Then go from there. See how she responds. Then progress to maybe taking her and leaving in the van. Then let her find any **** deer once I know they are dead. Let her think she’s found it. I’m in no rush. Cheers.

 

[mereside]

Thanks mate. All makes sense. She 2 now and steady. I’ll try with a skin drag and reward on a local farm back home the next time I shout one. Then go from there. See how she responds. Then progress to maybe taking her and leaving in the van. Then let her find any **** deer once I know they are dead. Let her think she’s found it. I’m in no rush. Cheers.

If shes 2 and steady then I would start like you say take her leave her in the vehicle go shoot a deer check its dead keep off the blood trail then get her and start her at the shot site, under control if it's dead you will be fine give loads of praise but only when she is on track, keep quite when she goes wrong and give her time to work it out on her own and let her suss it out then give praise, if she doesn't come back to track then get down low to the track call her and show her te track and make a real fuss of the actual track to show this is what your after, but if it's fresh with blood you won't have an issue, she will never tire of dead deer and real tracks so put her on as many as you can, I don't know how she is but if she will sit and be ok then get her out a few times stalking and sitting up in wait but don't let her get bored,regards wayne

 

[Antlerman]

If shes 2 and steady then I would start like you say take her leave her in the vehicle go shoot a deer check its dead keep off the blood trail then get her and start her at the shot site, under control if it's dead you will be fine give loads of praise and let her suss it out she will never tire of dead deer and real tracks so put her on as many as you can, I don't know how she is but if she will sit and be ok then get her out a few times stalking and sitting up in wait but don't let her get bored,regards wayne

I’ll take her next time and leave in the van. hopefully shoot one then let her find it. Just hope it’s not miles away. Ha. All the way back to the motor then back to deer.

 

[mereside]

I’ll take her next time and leave in the van. hopefully shoot one then let her find it. Just hope it’s not miles away. Ha. All the way back to the motor then back to deer.

if it is gralloch the deer before going back, time actually will help you as sometimes if your in crop or a low area too much scent is a bad thing as it can overwhelm them and they get exited and hunt fast but all over and this is a bad habit to have, this is why with a new dog a little age helps with a false track, air scent stays at least 4 hours but in damp low areas it can last a lot longer, dry baron ground it dissipates quicker, regards wayne

 

[Dan Newcombe]

There is also ‘finding deer’ as different to ‘tracking deer’.

My lab is generally used at night for finding rather than tracking. He will follow a line pretty well but I generally use him to just find stuff in trees in the dark - most dogs will do that pretty easily but proper tracking probably requires a slightly more structured approach I would imagine.

 

[clarkey188]

Sorry to hear that mate. He had a good innings though. Sounded a great dog.

He was he loved working and was fearless, I initially trained him on basic obedience and used hand signals as I didn’t want to be speaking to him during a stalk and give the game away. Every time I fed him I put my finger out and told him to sit then fed him, I then after time removed the verbal command using only the finger so removing the need to tell him to sit. I then used deer legs and dragged them around the garden making it a big game and hiding them for him to find, the problem I had with a terrier was as soon as I pulled the trigger he knew there was something to have a chomp on as I used to take him lamping. it took several trips with him on a lead at all times before I initially let him find a shot deer so he got used to not always being able to find something, getting him to leave the carcass was another thing but during the grollach he was partial to having a chew on something so I used to cut him something off to keep him happy as a reward

 

[henryjackson]

I have also been thinking of getting a spaniel (springer / cocker I'm undecided as of yet), but was unsure about if I could have a dog that would behave well on the beating line as well as stalking. Is it possible? I have a black lab which has been slightly ruined by being a family pet so when out beating I have had the very occasional FENTON!!! moment after he spotted either a deer or a rabbit (after which he wasn't really allowed off the lead...). I therefore have a fear of having a repeat performance, and wasn't sure if it was used to tracking it would track even on a beating line

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I have also been thinking of getting a spaniel (springer / cocker I'm undecided as of yet), but was unsure about if I could have a dog that would behave well on the beating line as well as stalking. Is it possible? I have a black lab which has been slightly ruined by being a family pet so when out beating I have had the very occasional FENTON!!! moment after he spotted either a deer or a rabbit (after which he wasn't really allowed off the lead...). I therefore have a fear of having a repeat performance, and wasn't sure if it was used to tracking it would track even on a beating line

What you can do is teach the dog the difference between the jobs you expect it to do.
When beating or shooting take the collar off. This will become the signal for beating.
Get a harness and when training and later stalking you use it. They are not daft and with training learn what is expected when.
One of my friends (and former boss’s) dogs used to catch day old upward hens in the brooder house. Go ratting with the terrier and picking up/peg dog on moor and pheasant shoot. He also went stalking and would point deer as well as track. He was an exceptional dog, but it goes to show what you can get from a dog.