Consumer rights help…

[gixer1]

I am currently waiting on consumer rights getting back to me but figured it was worth an ask on here to see if I could get an answer earlier.

I recently bought a piece of plant machinery from a dealer in England, I am in Scotland, I paid the cost of the machine and also paid a sum for delivery from England to Scotland. The machines was viewed via limited photographs on e-mail and was described a “very tidy machine”.

The evening the machine was delivered it would not start to drive it off the trailer, I was told it was due to a flat battery, which I gave them the benefit of the doubt. It was also heavy rain that evening and 10pm at night.

The next day it again wouldn’t start every time, even after charging the battery, I also noticed it had been badly repainted (over the top of rough corrosion) and also that it had two significant oil leaks.

I contacted the seller by phone and by e-mail to explain I would like to return the machine and a refund.

The seller tried to say it had never been an issue when it was at their yard and that machinery is expected to have leaks at this age (it has 300 hours on it so this is complete nonsense)

I explained I still wanted a refund and use my right to a return within 28 days (it had only been 4 days)

The seller agreed on an e-mail I could return but were vague on the details, no mention of a refund or when this would be. I waited a few days and asked when it would be collected - as I am away from home at the end of this month.

He stated that he could not say and that if I wanted I could arrange transport. I responded saying I was not comfortable moving the machine or transporting it.

My questions are -

1) The cost of the machine was separated out from the delivery cost - I want a refund for both, I see no reason I should be out of pocket when they have wrongly described the machine in my opinion, but where do I stand legally?

2) Is it their responsibility to collect the machine?

3) Is there any limit on time for them to collect the machine - it’s currently in my workshop and taking up space and blocking in other vehicles however I do not want to move it outside or touch it to give them a reason to say I did something.

4) When am I legally entitled to be refunded as it seems they are stringing this out, should it be before the collect the goods as they cannot give me a date for collecting it?

5) As I (the buyer) is in Scotland and they are in England - which consumer rights laws cover the transaction?

Regards,
Gixer

 

[User00056]

I think your first move should be to raise a case via whichever platform you used to purchase it? It sounds pretty obviously not as described, so to my mind you should be entitled to a full refund and for the seller to bear the cost of return. I'm no expert though, but that's how I'd see it

 

[timbrayford]

Good luck!

 

[gixer1]

I think your first move should be to raise a case via whichever platform you used to purchase it? It sounds pretty obviously not as described, so to my mind you should be entitled to a full refund and for the seller to bear the cost of return. I'm no expert though, but that's how I'd see it

The case has been raised with them - as it was purchased through them, no other platforms involved.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[gixer1]

Good luck!

Not sure if this is genuine or sarcasm?

 

[lochty]

How did you pay for it? If it was by credit card, notify the issuer and they should fight it on your behalf. If not, good luck.

 

[gixer1]

How did you pay for it? If it was by credit card, notify the issuer and they should fight it on your behalf. If not, good luck.

Bank transfer was the payment method.

 

[gixer1]

I will say they appear to be a well known dealer…

 

[User00056]

Bank transfer was the payment method.

In that case I'd say you're pretty much at the mercy of the sellers goodwill? I hope I'm wrong. The consumer rights guys will have a far better knowledge of your options though. Finger's crossed!

 

[lochty]

Bank transfer was the payment method.

In that case you may have to raise an action against them. I'd take legal advice ASAP.

 

[Tarquin]

Was this a business to business transaction?

 

[gixer1]

Was this a business to business transaction?

No, consumer buying from business.

 

[User00056]

No, consumer buying from business.

Hopefully they'll be in touch shortly. In my dealings with machinery dealers they can be really lax with communication, especially when it comes to giving money back

I recently bought a rotary topper to toy behind my quad, and once payment had been made radio silence commenced for a good week. I was beginning to think I'd been had, when it turned up on a pallet.

 

[Fadcode]

if you paid for the item to be delivered to you as an option, rather than picking it up yourself, then I doubt you would have a legitimate claim for the cost of delivery to be refunded. (and if so, you would have to pay for its return ), Depending how much this was, and bearing in mind the cost of litigation, I would advise to get a quote to get the item fixed, and see if the seller would settle for that. The fact you bought it by looking at photographs, and no doubt could have asked for specific pictures to satisfy you, this would weaken your case, and the fact it was described as a "very tidy machine", would have to be proved was wrong, and would not indicate its condition for use. You would also have to look at the firms T&C's, for help.
As the transaction was made in England, you would come under the English Consumer rights, perhaps contacting the local Council from where you bought the item may be helpful, as there may be other cases against the firm who sold it to you.

 

[gixer1]

Just spoke to Consumer rights who were super helpful and confirmed I am entitled to a full refund and they are responsible to pick up the machine or cover the transport back.

They also drafted a letter during the call and sent it to me to send on to the seller although it’s a bit strongly worded and I will not send it yet, if I haven’t heard back in a few days I will then send it.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[gixer1]

if you paid for the item to be delivered to you as an option, rather than picking it up yourself, then I doubt you would have a legitimate claim for the cost of delivery to be refunded. (and if so, you would have to pay for its return ), Depending how much this was, and bearing in mind the cost of litigation, I would advise to get a quote to get the item fixed, and see if the seller would settle for that. The fact you bought it by looking at photographs, and no doubt could have asked for specific pictures to satisfy you, this would weaken your case, and the fact it was described as a "very tidy machine", would have to be proved was wrong, and would not indicate its condition for use. You would also have to look at the firms T&C's, for help.
As the transaction was made in England, you would come under the English Consumer rights, perhaps contacting the local Council from where you bought the item may be helpful, as there may be other cases against the firm who sold it to you.

I appreciate the input and opinion but I will say - after speaking to the consumer rights people you are pretty much wrong on all counts…

They are responsible to refund all funds and also for the transport back as the machine has obvious faults (oil leaks and intermittent starting) which render it unfit for service.

Also the consumer rights part of the law covering this for England and wales and Scotland are the same apprently.

 

[chriswjx]

I appreciate the input and opinion but I will say - after speaking to the consumer rights people you are pretty much wrong on all counts…

They are responsible to refund all funds and also for the transport back as the machine has obvious faults (oil leaks and intermittent starting) which render it unfit for service.

Also the consumer rights part of the law covering this for England and wales and Scotland are the same apprently.

I was away to say, if it's returned due to fault then in my experience, the sellers have been liable for both return costs and to refund delivery fee (as it's been missold).

You only get stung for delivery (and often return) if you are returning say like a jacket that you would think would fit and doesn't. (And even at that, the bigger retailers usually eat those costs thanks to the post-covid shopping changes)

Fingers crossed that this gets resolved for you gixer1! Out of interest, did they give you an answer for your 3rd question?

3) Is there any limit on time for them to collect the machine - it’s currently in my workshop and taking up space and blocking in other vehicles however I do not want to move it outside or touch it to give them a reason to say I did something.

 

[enfieldspares]

If you are going to act do so quickly. The saying is "the law abhors delay". Also if it applies distance selling regulations require you reject within fourteen days. The problem of course is that you have the item and the seller has your money. So what the law says is only of use if you can enforce it. As others say "Good Luck" and I hope you get sorted out. Clearly if the thing doesn't run it isn't fit for purpose and a court would hold that "tidy" meant that it does run and is sound.

 

[Smellydog]

Don't delay, sounds like it may of been clocked. Send the letter. Don't delay,
The fact they are umming and arrring is enough!
Mention that you would hate to have to suspect fraudulent activity and have an investigation. Might be best for them to refund and get it gone very quickly....!

 

[gixer1]

I was away to say, if it's returned due to fault then in my experience, the sellers have been liable for both return costs and to refund delivery fee (as it's been missold).

You only get stung for delivery (and often return) if you are returning say like a jacket that you would think would fit and doesn't. (And even at that, the bigger retailers usually eat those costs thanks to the post-covid shopping changes)

Fingers crossed that this gets resolved for you gixer1! Out of interest, did they give you an answer for your 3rd question?

They have 14 days basically, and from when they pick it up an additional 14 days to issue a refund.