Coon hound/ Bloodhound

[Bowland blades]

Does anyone on here have any experience with Coon hounds?
Was looking at getting one of them or a bloodhound for stalking.
It would be my first working dog so I have no experience so an agreeable breed would be preferred.
Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks

Ok for a first never get something different like a coon hound , I cant recall any i know use one ! GWPs , Tackels and of course Labs are the most popular . I have had a GWP and i would never get another and frequently come across bad examples , not to say there are not a good amount of great ones but there are plenty that are anything but and i dont mean training issues but Neurological ones!
I have been on Labradors for the last two and frankly the UK has a good stock along with Austrian ones pretty much the best on the planet ! Dont think they lack the courage or aggression when called upon either ( the reason labs are not used for " multi purpose " tasks in most military and police man work is they bite very -very hard (bone breaking hard) and dont "out " well when roused. Australians' used them in Vietnam as patrol dogs and none I have read where safe to bring home after their experiences
Dont forget first and foremost the Lab is the most popular shooting dog , guide dog, assistance dog ,sniffer dog ( maybe the spaniel takes that now ?) and perhaps deer dog ?! especially as someone who is not a specialist tracker first and foremost will want a dog that is a good stable pet and general shooting dog. and ranks highly in almost every other field you can think of .
Dont for one minute think as a competent, ethical deerstalker that your dog will be called on a lot for your own use to find deer that you have failed to kill or find within a few yards ( unless your a bad or reckless and take poor opportunities).

 

[Bowland blades]

Think for first dog to train and good biddable all rounder a nice steady lab would be easier on you with every chance of turning out a useful well mannered and rewarding dog.
If not needing a dog to retrieve a good farm bred collie will find you your deer, stick to you like glue and nearly train itself, best dawg I have seen in a wood with many many pheasants at end of drive when stand and tap.
Only advice I would give would be buy a good book on training a working lab or whatever and read and more read it’s not that difficult, to turn out a respectable worker and friend, enjoy

Collies are good search dogs ( its a fair bit of the working dogs life up in the hills in winter ) Notoriously gun shy though and i mean NOTORIOUSLY! As in expect failure in this area.

 

[Bowland blades]

Plenty of decent Lab litters advertised on here.

I picked up my lad nearly 2 years ago. Just take into consideration that they are still young up until 2. I would also keep grounded when watching all the YouTube and instagram videos of these robot dogs. Labs still take a lot of work. IMHO the best workers are always kennelled. I would also consider a bitch over a dog. I’m sure there are many different opinions but from my limited experience a bitch is less headstrong and will do as they are told quicker.

I had bitches only for years , now i only keep dogs in my experience the dogs Sex does not effect the dogs work beyond size and strength . The Female in season is a PITA in 99% of cases if you are dumb enough to take it out working in season. I think there is a different relationship between male and female handlers with same and opposing sex dogs . Not negative in any way just " different "

 

[Bowland blades]

Plotthunds are good for bears. I've hunted with them in Sweden.

Never a good idea to import a different breed especially if you have no handy help with the breed nearby ! Dont the Scandinavian nations have a great collaboration within their hunting system though !?

 

[Bowland blades]

If anyone with good experience in tracking or higher volume personal deer work BTW i have friends in the North of Scotland that do Catahola leopard dogs . and lab x Catahola .

 

[Bowland blades]

As others have said, get a lab. Hounds are designed and bred to follow sent trails and bring animals to bay. They are independently minded as they often work outwith the immediate command of their handlers. Coon hounds, Elk Hounds, Drahteers etc are often just let go on a scent and the hunters eventually catch up once they corner or tree an animal.

For most UK stalking you want a dog that is with you, that will scent deer fir you and indicate that they are close, but lazy / biddable enough that they don’t want to immediately go and catch it. And if you are sitting up, or in a highseat they are quite happy just sitting up or curled up.

Yet when the time comes to find something they can very easily follow a sent trail, find something and either bring it back or show you where it is.

Most labs can do this all day long.

I have a lab cross bmh. Love her to bits and she is a good working dog, but the hound in her does give her a stubbon and over keen streak. And the look when you don’t shoot something has to be seen to be believed.

ah that look ! I can tell the two 1. How the **** did you miss that and 2. What your not serious a triple, i dont believe you . I did fancy a Bavarian x lab myself but the time was too soon after loosing my top dog . Its a conforming cross rather than a contradicting one

 

[User00053]

Collies are good search dogs ( its a fair bit of the working dogs life up in the hills in winter ) Notoriously gun shy though and i mean NOTORIOUSLY! As in expect failure in this area.

Known one or two very useful ones used by full time stalkers in Scotland who I personally knew and have been myself associated with working collies for over fifty years and also experienced in training dogs of various breeds and would say most dogs if conditioned properly from a pup including collies will accept gun and rifle reports. I would again personally have no hesitation in in training a working collie to accept this based on my personal experience having trained dogs of various breeds to the gun and to hunt
In summery I would not expect failure in this area and any dog for a variety of reasons can be made to be gun shy mainly but not always by inexperience and difficult to generalise across the board but each to their own

 

[Skinny78]

Collies are good search dogs ( its a fair bit of the working dogs life up in the hills in winter ) Notoriously gun shy though and i mean NOTORIOUSLY! As in expect failure in this area.

Known one or two very useful ones used by full time stalkers in Scotland who I personally knew and have been myself associated with working collies for over fifty years and also experienced in training dogs of various breeds and would say most dogs if conditioned properly from a pup including collies will accept gun and rifle reports. I would again personally have no hesitation in in training a working collie to accept this based on my personal experience but having trained dogs of various breeds to the gun and to hunt
In summery I would not expect failure in this area but any dog for a variety of reasons can be made to be gun shy mainly but not always by inexperience and difficult to generalise across the board but each to their own

The NZ cattle dog/eye dog which was bred from border collies long ago are awesome dogs to shoot over. Alot of pros are culling goats and deer over them. Very good indicators and silent. No more problems with gunshy than other breeds.

 

[User00053]

The NZ cattle dog/eye dog which was bred from border collies long ago are awesome dogs to shoot over. Alot of pros are culling goats and deer over them. Very good indicators and silent. No more problems with gunshy than other breeds.

Have to say got a shock myself when meeting a stalker for a large Forestry company with a farm bred collie and a strange set of shooting sticks nearly thirty years ago and was educated by him on their qualities for forestry work.
Turned out he was not alone in this and found it all very interesting, around same period encountered a keeper/ stalker/ shepherd and one man band who used a collie on his pheasant drives when stand and tap time with a lot of birds in front and it behaved just like working sheep with no large flushes, dog bred to the job.
Those nz cattle dogs sound a interesting type

 

[Bowland blades]

Really interesting thread. Any recommendations on books for training dogs for deer?

The NZ cattle dog/eye dog which was bred from border collies long ago are awesome dogs to shoot over. Alot of pros are culling goats and deer over them. Very good indicators and silent. No more problems with gunshy than other breeds.

Might be in yours but the general rule here is noise shy as #### ! Here they really need to be sensitive to noise to react to what is a fairly quiet whistle often a long way off . There is a big difference in farm bred working Border Collies and trial Collies here in the uk so i have no doubt that a dog in the other half of the world might well be very different .
To describe the difference in Farm Collies and trial comments as given to me for illustration of the differences in the two
" You will be there all day when an old ewe decides its not getting in the trailer etc" , " while the farm version will sort the situation with a bite if required " . Trial dogs would be put out for that ! Oh and i dont note much whistling going or handler instruction / direction on the farm here !
Years ago we had collie cross lurchers for rabbit / fox most of them where even shy of an airgun no matter what . If you get a collie that works under gunfire just fine here in the UK it is not the normal

 

[mchughcb]

Never a good idea to import a different breed especially if you have no handy help with the breed nearby ! Dont the Scandinavian nations have a great collaboration within their hunting system though !?

They have a following in northern Sweden and have done so for many years. They are different to the Elkhounds.

 

[Skinny78]

Might be in yours but the general rule here is noise shy as #### ! Here they really need to be sensitive to noise to react to what is a fairly quiet whistle often a long way off . There is a big difference in farm bred working Border Collies and trial Collies here in the uk so i have no doubt that a dog in the other half of the world might well be very different .
To describe the difference in Farm Collies and trial comments as given to me for illustration of the differences in the two
" You will be there all day when an old ewe decides its not getting in the trailer etc" , " while the farm version will sort the situation with a bite if required " . Trial dogs would be put out for that ! Oh and i dont note much whistling going or handler instruction / direction on the farm here !
Years ago we had collie cross lurchers for rabbit / fox most of them where even shy of an airgun no matter what . If you get a collie that works under gunfire just fine here in the UK it is not the normal

These dogs are all stock based shepherding dogs that are extensively used for trialing also but long ago realised to be quite good for hunting purpose indicating. For a long time (if a farmer is this way inclined) they have been working sheep/cattle then a good multitask dog used for a hunt. My brother in law has been culling with them for 20 plus years aswell as other guys. His don't do any stock work as they are trained to ignore anything domestic they come across. The odd pup will go off to be a hunting dog whilst brothers or sisters go off to be heading dogs.

 

[Skinny78]

Have to say got a shock myself when meeting a stalker for a large Forestry company with a farm bred collie and a strange set of shooting sticks nearly thirty years ago and was educated by him on their qualities for forestry work.
Turned out he was not alone in this and found it all very interesting, around same period encountered a keeper/ stalker/ shepherd and one man band who used a collie on his pheasant drives when stand and tap time with a lot of birds in front and it behaved just like working sheep with no large flushes, dog bred to the job.
Those nz cattle dogs sound a interesting type

They are a versatile dog, hunting certainly wasn't the original plan for them and it still isn't but it got forrest gumped upon a long time ago. They're generally very attentive and quiet but can be trained to bark and hook in, if they are used solely for hunting purpose then they are trained to ignore domestic stock. Some will even bail a pig but generally for pig hunting they will be mixed with something else.

 

[User00053]

They are a versatile dog, hunting certainly wasn't the original plan for them and it still isn't but it got forrest gumped upon a long time ago. They're generally very attentive and quiet but can be trained to bark and hook in, if they are used solely for hunting purpose then they are trained to ignore domestic stock. Some will even bail a pig but generally for pig hunting they will be mixed with something else.

Think we definitely play at things over in uk compared to other places and hunting cultures but made the most of our resources to suit the mindset of the times and about to play itself out in near future.
The old horse for the course with hunting dogs and hounds and their users about to be made extinct, great to learn of evolving breeds and uses.

 

[TringSaint]

Thanks Jon

I hadn’t considered a GWP, I’ll take a look for sure
Cheers

GWP or a Korthals Griffon

 

[Rusty Gate]

Does anyone on here have any experience with Coon hounds?
Was looking at getting one of them or a bloodhound for stalking.
It would be my first working dog so I have no experience so an agreeable breed would be preferred.
Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks

This is Pondholler Cooper Of Pembrokeshire.
Male, not neutered & a quiet boy day or night, No deer down this end. I take him tracking regular, loves it. Nose down & well happy all day long on a scent. Barks to other fogs every time, just saying hello.
They’re bred to set free to track & bay when located, I keep Cooper on a tracking lead & he’s fine.
I’ll pm you my number.

He just won best in show

 

[Bowland blades]

These dogs are all stock based shepherding dogs that are extensively used for trialing also but long ago realised to be quite good for hunting purpose indicating. For a long time (if a farmer is this way inclined) they have been working sheep/cattle then a good multitask dog used for a hunt. My brother in law has been culling with them for 20 plus years aswell as other guys. His don't do any stock work as they are trained to ignore anything domestic they come across. The odd pup will go off to be a hunting dog whilst brothers or sisters go off to be heading dogs.

I have known a guy use his wife's miniature Yorkie. One of the best gundogs i owned was a terrier cross lurcher bitch .
Of course there will be great collies out there that are not gun-shy , yes they can track ( finding sheep burried in snow is a common task here in winter for the sheep dogs ) , mountain rescue seem to prefer the border collie etc etc . However most Border Collies do not take to loud gunshot and enough of them will will duck their head from a hand clap. Its a percentage thing that's all , you might come across a Lab that wont retrieve naturally - i hear that often enough happens in the USA

 

[Skinny78]

I have known a guy use his wife's miniature Yorkie. One of the best gundogs i owned was a terrier cross lurcher bitch .
Of course there will be great collies out there that are not gun-shy , yes they can track ( finding sheep burried in snow is a common task here in winter for the sheep dogs ) , mountain rescue seem to prefer the border collie etc etc . However most Border Collies do not take to loud gunshot and enough of them will will duck their head from a hand clap. Its a percentage thing that's all , you might come across a Lab that wont retrieve naturally - i hear that often enough happens in the USA

The NZ Eye/Cattledogs that are used for hunting definently aren't one iff luck stories thats for sure, you have as good a chance of them not being gun-shy as anything else if they have the time put into them. These dogs aren't pure Border Collies but they were directly bred from them, the long hair of a border was to much for a hot working day. They certainly have the behavioural traits of a Collie regarding that timid alertness, concentration, intelligence and willing to please but as for gun shy they are in general no worse than others. Speaking to your out of the blue stories with labs and the like, I've never seen a Vizsla gun shy until my mates dog, got it at 8weeks as a pup spent the usual time and training with it things were looking ok, it had started doing water retrieves and was working beside her 10yr old lab partner in his last year, all of a sudden this dog starts cowering at the sight of a gun to a point where it tears inside his house and starts biting the couch pillows! I gotta laugh at my mates pain on the issue, I mean what else can I do, I'm a terrible ba$tard I know. I've seen the odd brain explosion capable Vizsla before but it is usually a temporary thing but not like this one lol

 

[Bowland blades]

The NZ Eye/Cattledogs that are used for hunting definently aren't one iff luck stories thats for sure, you have as good a chance of them not being gun-shy as anything else if they have the time put into them. These dogs aren't pure Border Collies but they were directly bred from them, the long hair of a border was to much for a hot working day. They certainly have the behavioural traits of a Collie regarding that timid alertness, concentration, intelligence and willing to please but as for gun shy they are in general no worse than others. Speaking to your out of the blue stories with labs and the like, I've never seen a Vizsla gun shy until my mates dog, got it at 8weeks as a pup spent the usual time and training with it things were looking ok, it had started doing water retrieves and was working beside her 10yr old lab partner in his last year, all of a sudden this dog starts cowering at the sight of a gun to a point where it tears inside his house and starts biting the couch pillows! I gotta laugh at my mates pain on the issue, I mean what else can I do, I'm a terrible ba$tard I know. I've seen the odd brain explosion capable Vizsla before but it is usually a temporary thing but not like this one lol

Gun shy proper finishes a dogs career , gun nerves can be be sorted with enough care the latter can transform to the other if the trainer pushes ahead to quick
IMO a dog only needs to be OK with the true sound of shots as its about to enter work ( which would be a year to 18 months for most ) but could be more or something slightly less
It can be physical rather than mental as there is a part of the ear that takes a while to form and harden.
Gets tricky with a pup intended for walk / stalk dog though because many want to mold a puppy , personally i hold back one gun-shy dog in my past was one too many for me

 

[Skinny78]

Gun shy proper finishes a dogs career , gun nerves can be be sorted with enough care the latter can transform to the other if the trainer pushes ahead to quick
IMO a dog only needs to be OK with the true sound of shots as its about to enter work ( which would be a year to 18 months for most ) but could be more or something slightly less
It can be physical rather than mental as there is a part of the ear that takes a while to form and harden.
Gets tricky with a pup intended for walk / stalk dog though because many want to mold a puppy , personally i hold back one gun-shy dog in my past was one too many for me

And sometimes as with humans you just get one that's not quite right. No matter how much therapy.