Copper kills what calibres

[ChesterP]

I have disagree with you. I started using using lead free because I was not happy with lead core bullets for a number of performance reasons. Politics had nothing to do with it.

Do you have evidence that the WHO statement that they could find no safe level of lead for our systems was politically driven? Copper on the other hand is vital to our systems...just as water and oxygen are...and in excess copper is toxic to us just as water and oxygen are...but they are are in a different league altogether with lead.


A laudable basis upon which to choose a bullet to be sure. Did you manage to find the same degree of evidence based data for the bullets you are currently using?

One of the big plusses of the lead free bullet debate on SD for me has been a greater understanding of terminal ballistics and how bullets kill which I was not aware of before.

The advice frequently given on here not long ago to anybody enquiring about choice of rifle chambering was to base it on what ammunition their local RFD had on the shelves. Little consideration was given to the criteria you have listed at all.

Alan

Talk about loaded questioning!

Yes...I most certainly did find plenty of evidential based data on ALL of the bullets that I currently use and it most certainly mattered to me Mr smartipants.
You are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. What others choose as evidential to decide on their rifles or bullets of choice is up to them so your last point is totally irrrelevant to me Alantoo.

The fact that you came late to the party on understanding terminal ballistics doesn't mean we all did. Lets leave it at that. I am content to wait and see until such time as being forced to change and as is the way with change, more will be known by that time

Agressive responses do you no favours and because I've had much more important real world issues to deal with than your rather derogatory response I don't take offence...In fact, I find such responses rather undignified and ungentlemanly.

 

[Alantoo]

Mr smartipants?...aggressive?...derogatory?...undignified?...ungentlemanly?

Okay that has dealt with your view of my character...what about the actual debate?

I am surprised at your response, I am glad you did not take offence (!) but am not sure why you should. I am sorry to hear of your real world issues, we seem to be going through the mill a bit here as well, you have my sympathies. However, I took your statements seriously and answered them equally seriously...without invective. You are not obliged to do me the same courtesy, but I would prefer it.

I disagreed with you that evidence against lead is "a pure political driven agenda and always was", and gave two reasons why I started to explore lead free bullet options which were not political.

Your last paragraph's bullet assessment criteria set the bar very high. Laudably so. My question was, were you able to apply the same stringent criteria to the selection of your lead core bullets that you are demanding before you will consider lead free? I am still a little sceptical that you were able to find that degree of peer reviewed information for any bullet.

I am impressed to read that you were up to speed on the issues you listed before you chose all your bullets, I fully admit I wasn't. When I started out with centre fire I went by the information available to me, i.e. the advice from, and what was on the shelf of, the RFD, the anecdotal evidence of other shooters, and the bullet selection information provided by the manufacturers. Much as I did as a lad for my air rifle.

The information I found on Nathan Foster's site was after I had discovered the effectiveness of lead-free mono metal bullets, and so I knew empirically that the energy transfer of frangible bullets was not the only paradigm as he argues. As a metalworker I know that the design of the bullet, whether frangible, fragmenting or expanding petals, has more to do with the model of energy transfer than the metal from which it is made. So I do not see choice of terminal effect as being a lead or lead-free issue.

I also admit that I am still learning, and just like you, would like to learn more. You have apparently found information that I have been unable to find.

If you found sources of "comprehensive peer reviewed data" of "evidence based assessment for ricochet risk, penetration, expansion, environmental toxic risk and all the other things connected with terminal ballistics which need careful consideration" for the lead core bullets you chose...please share them.

Alan