Crimping issue

[Edinburgh Rifles]

For all those poo pooing crimping that haven't tried it....
If you don't want to do it or feel its necessary.....don't do it.

but
A) it can dramatically reduce ES and reduce variable neck tension
B) is even more relevant on very thin necked cases (22h etc as above)

Annealling ......Likewise
a) dramatically reduces ES
b) dramatically increases brass life


To the author -
if you are seating a bullet and its loose the brass is not sizing down to the lowest size of the die (external if collet, internal if expander ball)
if you are crimping rock hard brass and its still loose then that confirms the above

You can either anneal the brass, lots of people do this service including us £20 per 100 done on an AMP induction annealer
or
Chuck it and get some new

 

[Klenchblaize]

"It can dramatically reduce ES and reduce variable neck tension."

This ^

 K

 

[maxwell]

For all those poo pooing crimping that haven't tried it....
If you don't want to do it or feel its necessary.....don't do it.

but
A) it can dramatically reduce ES and reduce variable neck tension
B) is even more relevant on very thin necked cases (22h etc as above)

Annealling ......Likewise
a) dramatically reduces ES
b) dramatically increases brass life


To the author -
if you are seating a bullet and its loose the brass is not sizing down to the lowest size of the die (external if collet, internal if expander ball)
if you are crimping rock hard brass and its still loose then that confirms the above

You can either anneal the brass, lots of people do this service including us £20 per 100 done on an AMP induction annealer
or
Chuck it and get some new

The brass is sizing down, as I have to hold the bullet in the cartridge (so to speak) and let go as it enters the die. So the brass holds the completed cartridge prior to crimping.
As has been said, I may be over thinking it, but the bullet can be moved in the cartridge at this point, but not easily granted. If I was just shooting at the range it wouldn’t bother me, but as a hunting round, they may be in and out of the rifle numerous times and the rounds in general don’t get ‘looked’ after the same as a range round.
I check every round for length and feel once crimped they are less likely to move.
I’ll try some newer once fired brass to see if it does the same.
The brass always gets cleaned and looked after, but when trimming the cartridge, it doesn’t take any trimming down, it maybe that the cartridges aren’t long enough?

 

[Bo Diddley]

That’s another job that just doesn’t need doing!

I just can’t see the benefits of it just hard work for nothing

How's the carp fishing going? Do you sharpen your hooks

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

How's the carp fishing going? Do you sharpen your hooks

Going tomorrow

 

[NP435]

The brass is sizing down, as I have to hold the bullet in the cartridge (so to speak) and let go as it enters the die. So the brass holds the completed cartridge prior to crimping.
As has been said, I may be over thinking it, but the bullet can be moved in the cartridge at this point, but not easily granted. If I was just shooting at the range it wouldn’t bother me, but as a hunting round, they may be in and out of the rifle numerous times and the rounds in general don’t get ‘looked’ after the same as a range round.
I check every round for length and feel once crimped they are less likely to move.
I’ll try some newer once fired brass to see if it does the same.
The brass always gets cleaned and looked after, but when trimming the cartridge, it doesn’t take any trimming down, it maybe that the cartridges aren’t long enough?

Ok now I get the picture. There should be no movement of the projectile after being seated crimp or not. You do need new brass and develop a system to know exactly how many times the brass has been used.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Ok now I get the picture. There should be no movement of the projectile after being seated crimp or not. You do need new brass and develop a system to know exactly how many times the brass has been used.

A crimp works differently to conventional or bushing type neck sizing, so I remain surprised the bullet can still be moved after applying a full Lee factory crimp even if the brass has been over-worked.

But what do a I know!

K

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm. I don’t really see how a bullet can move after even a moderate crimping - the very action of crimping creates a cannelure on the bullet which the crimped brass mirrors and for want of a better word “seats” round said cannelure accordingly. I really am puzzled - ‘spose nothing new there then.
This is a pulled lightly crimped .308…

 

[Smellydog]

I crimp my 3030 but not the 222. The 3030 has thin brass and gets stuffed in a tubular magazine.
I also anneal but I don't use any thing more than a blow lamp.
I also crimped my 308 loads when I had one.

 

[maxwell]

Ok now I get the picture. There should be no movement of the projectile after being seated crimp or not. You do need new brass and develop a system to know exactly how many times the brass has been used.

Just tried with once fired brass, backing the crimper off at different rates etc, exactly the same.
The 243 I load I exactly the same way, no issue at all and probably fired more.
The only difference is 243 is Lapua brass and the 270 Hornady brass.
It looks like the brass is the issue (or the crimping die, but that’s unlikely).

 

[maxwell]

Hmmm. I don’t really see how a bullet can move after even a moderate crimping - the very action of crimping creates a cannelure on the bullet which the crimped brass mirrors and for want of a better word “seats” round said cannelure accordingly. I really am puzzled - ‘spose nothing new there then.
This is a pulled lightly crimped .308…
View attachment 467125

Bullet has the same groove around it as mine, but there is movement.
The brass must be ‘bouncing’ back on me slightly.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I ordered a Lee FCD for my 35 Whelen, along with a set of conventional FL dies rather than go down the route of neck bushings to achieve the desired tension. I know its not a true Dangerous Game round but understand its given of 'positive' recoil with the heavier projectiles!

K

 

[Smellydog]

Hornady brass

The only brass I've ever had a separation from with no warning!
Check for rings inside and out. If ok put the case mouths in a flame until the brass just starts to change colour. Looks as though a silver hue is appearing and remove from heat.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I have a blatant hatred of anything that has hornady stamped on it!

PPU is bloody good brass for not a lot of gold

 

[Foxyboy43]

Bullet has the same groove around it as mine, but there is movement.
The brass must be ‘bouncing’ back on me slightly.

Sounds like tired brass - dump or (gulp) anneal….

 

[NP435]

Bullet has the same groove around it as mine, but there is movement.
The brass must be ‘bouncing’ back on me slightly.

This is interesting I have shot a few hundred .270 in Hornady brass zero issues and never crimped. I am certain you have spring back and quite possibly a die in the large size of spec. A crimp should end all movement ( however none should exist) Are you using a normal full length resize die or a bushing die? The latter might solve the problem if you use a smaller bushing. Or anneal.

 

[NP435]

A crimp works differently to conventional or bushing type neck sizing, so I remain surprised the bullet can still be moved after applying a full Lee factory crimp even if the brass has been over-worked.

But what do a I know!

K

I know but having done this from 1978 to current some of the issues posted in this forum I have never had. I had considered a taper crimp for.223 but I never bought the die.

 

[SimpleSimon]

@maxwell I have 40 once fired Federal 270 cases (not cartridges ) here. If you want them to try, and see if they solve your problem, then you can have them for nothing. PM me.

 

[Selous]

I have an issue crimping 270 loads, 243 no problem, in that when crimped the bullet moves in the cartridge and isn’t solid. It a Lee crimping die and I’ve tried re-setting numerous times but get the same effect. The bullet is crimped but isn’t solid in the cartridge.
Has anyone come across the same issue or has a fix (or is it a faulty die).
I suppose I could just neck tension but always feel the bullet could move and affect overall length/consistency!

I had a similar issue when reloading some dummy rounds for a 458 Lott. I wondered if I was trying to crimp too hard and ending up pushing the mouth of the case bask slightly which was altering neck tension. I reset the die to crimp slightly less and the issue seemed to be resolved. In your case with a light recoiling cartridge like a .270 I would usually avoid crimping. I crimp cartridges from .375 H&H upwards but nothing below.

 

[Smellydog]

I had a similar issue when reloading some dummy rounds for a 458 Lott. I wondered if I was trying to crimp too hard and ending up pushing the mouth of the case bask slightly which was altering neck tension. I reset the die to crimp slightly less and the issue seemed to be resolved. In your case with a light recoiling cartridge like a .270 I would usually avoid crimping. I crimp cartridges from .375 H&H upwards but nothing below.

Unless it goes in a tubular magazine or a revolver.