Custom thoughts

[wraith]

night vision is a difrent ball game bud and the kite is a peace of crap compared to other units out there you missed my point a barrel screwed in two a perticular acton is still screwed to the acton as is a barrel a steel rod with a hole down the middle example c/z cheep as chips **** wood crap mettal mikey mouse parts but do they shoot yes they do and and a very good job they do of it dead is dead we are not all looking for 1hole groups at 1000yards we are putting deer and vermin down so why do i have to spend 3000 for a gun that a 1000pound gun will do the same job as for master craftsmen huu most and i mean most so called gun smiths are onley joe blogs who happens to be good on a laith next time you get a gun bilt for you ask for his paper work bet you get a shock bud i worked for a night vision companey i also did gun work for a gun shop and im a shooting instrutor with the paper work to prove it so by working for the night vision companey i looked throe hundreds of night vision so must have some idea what im talking about working for the gun shop dose not maike me a gun smith no matter what i know about guns being a shooting instructor means i went one more step than you did do snipers use custom guns mabey a few but most will use heavey barrel remingtons etc what feals right to them shoots better than eney custom gun that can be manufactured and thats my point throe out this thread why pay lots of money for a custom gun if your own abilites dont exead that of most shooters why pay more for somthing that you cant shoot eney better than a standard gun

 

[Sariel]

MarkH,
Agreed, but thats mainly to do with technique and physiology, (Ive got a great MTB that i got cheap but i feel a fraud riding it as its way beyond what i will ever be capable off.)

Its different with firearms. If you were to fully bench vise the rifles so no human intervention the better components / assembly would produce better results. Toterances, finish, design, gereral engineering these all factor.

Few things are equal and all things end in judgment.

 

[wraith]

We will see wraith when you come down to Norfolk with your .243 tikka how good the off the shelf rifle is compared to a .243 Remmington custom job

but i have a remington 223 which you yourself are hoping to purchase of me now mines a remingtonvssf yours is a state of the art crafsman asembled gun why would you purchase mine over the custom job did mine kill the foxes did mine kill all the muntjack yep and they tasted very nice ye we will have some fun when i get back down your way bud looking forward to it

 

[Sariel]

Wraith,

I agree that if you cant shoot great then dont spend the money, also accuracy is a matter of degree... anyway....

On the night vision subject i sold my kite last year, i understand things move fast so what good now?

 

[finnbear270]

I'll venture back in here, 8) , I am an NRA range officer, also a club coach, shooting from 25yds pistol on out to the staring bit, I witness shooters who do it for a living, keeping their hand in while"back home", using Accuracy int'l stuff, & when they use their own stalking stuff there is a really marked difference in their cards. I rest my case. 8)

 

[wraith]

Wraith,

I agree that if you cant shoot great then dont spend the money, also accuracy is a matter of degree... anyway....

On the night vision subject i sold my kite last year, i understand things move fast so what good now?

d760 d480 with ittmx10160tube or pinical gen3 or gen4 filmless if you can get one

 

[wraith]

I'll venture back in here, 8) , I am an NRA range officer, also a club coach, shooting from 25yds pistol on out to the staring bit, I witness shooters who do it for a living, keeping their hand in while"back home", using Accuracy int'l stuff, & when they use their own stalking stuff there is a really marked difference in their cards. I rest my case. 8)

sorrey finnbear are you saying they are better at the club or better with there own gear i have found that the one man gun generaly can shoot most things. but shoots the one gun exeptonaly well literaly becomes the extenson of the arm and shoots more consitantley is this what your finding thanks rob

 

[Nicholas Fahey]

Anybody who thinks a factory rifle (with exception) can shoot as well as a good custom absolutely hasnt had or used one.

My RPA shoots pretty well for an out of the box gat

 

[MarkH]

Hi Sariel

Just to clear this up I presume we are discussing custom rifles as a purely function point of view.

The three areas to look at a
Accuracy
Precision
Handling or shootability

Perhaps the analogy of the bike needs a little clarification but there is no difference between the two as it is an interaction between man and machine.
With the bike one only gains a benefit from the increased areodynamicity when travelling above say 20mph consistently. Below that speed it does not matter if its a £8000 or a £1600. In fact keeping areodynamic can educe power output making you slower.
Its the same with the rifles, the marksman needs to have mastered breath control etc to produce consistent results. So the benchrest AI shooter wont use the deer rifle in competition against other target rifles. To shoot tiny groups competetivly he/she needs that type of kit. For deer hunting the tolerances are wider so a lot of the technical advantage ie bangs for you buck will be lost. That does however not mean its nice to own a custom rifle - I have two.
My third rifle is a Sauer 202 which I am having the barrel shortened so the mod sleeves right down to the fore-end. This will not improve precision per say but it will improve the balance and handling, this in turn makes the rifle more accurate as I can acquire the target more easily. 1cm groups are no good if you cant get your rifle on the target fast enough or a scared of getting it dirty because it cost a fortune.

Mark

 

[flytie]

As the owner of an ugly (but accurate) plastic stocked bog standard Sako 75 finnlight, I have just asked myself would i want a custom rifle and I have to say I really don't know? It depends on your definition of custom

I think I would prefer a rifle from, Boss, H&H, Westley Richards etc. etc. with lovely walnut, in an eye pleasing shape and that had been accurised without it ending up looking like a reject from star wars

ft

 

[JC275]

Just a thought, If custom/semi-custom/sniper type rifles really make that much difference (and yes, I have owned or used extensively, them all) then why do FC Rangers all use factory sporters? Money is not the issue, look at the trucks/quads/argos/larders etc. Availability is not the issue, they work for HM Queen and Sons so why not L96's? Maybe the fact is, under field conditions, the sporters do the job. Don't get me wrong, have what you fancy and can afford, but don't feel undergunned with a good quality factory rifle with good optics and mounts. JC

 

[Sariel]

Hi Nick,

RPA: thats sneaky, I bet Mike Cox wouldnt agree to them being factory....I'm not sure how you would define them.

Mark,

I agree about rifle useage but the bike analogy / example is not great, way too many variables and factors, but would a lighter bike with more efficient geometry and lower friction components potentially be faster?

Accuracy and metrology are absolute.

I just sold my 202 with a 20in barrel to Thomas and it shot .5MOA to 150y, was very fast handling. I did this to free up a slot for another custom. The Sauer was absolutely stunning to look at (grade 8 wood) and i spent a while very nervious that i did the right thing. The first day on the range with the new rifle placated any misgivings i had. it was exceptional.

 

[GP1]

We will see wraith when you come down to Norfolk with your .243 tikka how good the off the shelf rifle is compared to a .243 Remmington custom job

but i have a remington 223 which you yourself are hoping to purchase of me now mines a remingtonvssf yours is a state of the art crafsman asembled gun why would you purchase mine over the custom job did mine kill the foxes did mine kill all the muntjack yep and they tasted very nice ye we will have some fun when i get back down your way bud looking forward to it

you should read my post before answering, i said your .243 tikka against my .243 remmington
As for you shooting all the fox and muntjac i was the driver and you where my guest so yes you did shoot all the fox and muntjac looking forward to our next shoot 8) try not to get your rear end kicked to much on here old mate

 

[Sariel]

Hi JC275,

My understanding is that FC rangers can't use homeload rounds. Maybe it all has to be standard. Interested to understand if anybody knows? And your right, certainly every ranger i know uses a factory sporter, they do get a budget for all their gear, it certainly isnt money no object and the sporter does the job as already said.

The debate isnt about factory sporters not being enough gun. Unless money was no object I wouldnt choose a custom for FC ranger work, the cost and lifespan would be horrific certainly when a good factory is more than capable delivering the performance required to get the job done. As for a L96A1, why would anybody want to carry that weight (14.3Lb +)when you could have a lighter rifle that holds the same MOA to hunting ditances?

 

[Sariel]

Hi MarkH
This may seem picky but:

"This will not improve precision per say but it will improve the balance and handling, this in turn makes the rifle more accurate as I can acquire the target more easily. "
Apart from the expected increase in accuracy due to the barrel being stiffer as its shorter, the handling and balance allows you to be more accurate, not the rifle.

1cm groups are no good if you cant get your rifle on the target fast enough or a scared of getting it dirty because it cost a fortune."

LOL, i had a Sauer 202 (grade eight wood) that statement is bang on.....i was a serial offender on that score. I have a R93 cut down to 19inches, super handling....

 

[75]

Blimey - can of worms, eh??

As I said earlier, to me a custom is not simply about accuracy. On most days of the week under most field conditions, my factory rifle is more accurate than a) I am and b) I need to be.

But I take a lot of pleasure in using something that has been carefully put together by a craftsman, where tolerances are smaller and it generally has a "quality" feel.

 

[Claret_Dabbler]

75, to get back to the conversation as started as opposed to the ****ing match that has evolved, I think one significant benefit of a semi-custom over a standard factory synthetic rifle is the quality of the stock and the bedding.

A decent starting point might be to take the barreled action you have in mind, and have it properly fitted and bedded into a McMillan or other quality stock and live with it for a while. You can always get it rebarreled at a later date.

If you have a Sako75, you know they are usually pretty accurate already.