Thoughts on my dual purpose stalking / target spec

TRNCNDNT

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

Just a heads up from the off - this will be fairly lengthy because I’ll be commenting on my logic / justification for the choices of each of the component parts of the spec, so people know my reasoning for their response so any recommendations are based on (or rationally countering) what my choices are. Anyway…

So after years of telling myself I wanted a dedicated stalking rifle that was lightweight and compact along with a heftier and longer target rifle I’ve capitulated after coming to the realisation that I simply don’t - and won’t - shoot as much as I want to.

Quite frankly, I can’t afford to shoot as much as I’d want due to ammunition costs, outing / trophy fees and the price of fuel to travel to where I’d stalk or target shoot. I work an amazing shift pattern (incredibly lucky) - 4 on 6 off 12 hour shifts, however, shooting always involves long travel (and therefore fuel) from my home. I have loads of time to shoot just not the money! To that end I’ve decided I just want a canny nice rifle that does both well but neither close to perfect. I could get 2 factory rifles with 2 different low to mid-range scopes (good ‘ol 4A for stalking and ‘Christmas tree’ for targets) that would both be used infrequently or I could get one nice custom that I would grow fully accustomed to the fit and feel of whilst also loving the aesthetics - I’ve chosen the latter…

Here’s what I was thinking:
Action - Tikka T3X Donor Action / Trigger - I like Tikka actions and if there’s anywhere I can save money on the build without me caring it’s this.

Calibre - 6.5 Creedmoor - I’m not a reloader and this calibre represents the best variety and availability of target and hunting ammo. Good trajectory for targets (applies to hunting too really), big enough for all U.K. deer (would probably restrain from big lowland reds though) and very manageable recoil.

Barrel - I’ll go with whichever quality barrel maker the smith I choose recommends whether it be Phoenix, IBI, Bartlein, Proof etc. Profile will be up for discussion too based on overall weight to compromise for both stalking (manoeuvrability) and target shooting (heavier for recoil reduction and heat dissipation). My main concern here is barrel length, and it’s also the factor I’d like opinions on more than anything else. I was thinking 22” because - whilst obviously still inefficient for a 6.5 Creedmoor which would usually have 24-26” barrels for the maximum velocity and burn - I feel it’s the right compromise level between compactness / weight and the muzzle velocity sacrifice. It should be noted I intend to use a compact forward-mounted mod so this will add length. My main question here is what would your opinion be on dropping to 20” from 22”? Would that extra compactness outweigh the extra muzzle velocity loss for the dual purpose I describe? Looking forward to the debate here.

Stock - McMillan A10 Adjustable - Now this here is a biggie for me. I’m relatively short (5’8”) with small-ish hands and have always found traditional stocks (both ‘Hunter’ and ‘Tactical’) to have a long grip to trigger reach, resulting in a skewed and less-than-ideal trigger finger pull and angle. Honestly I didn’t even know this until a year ago (after shooting for 17 years!) when I shot a chassis rifle and realised how much more comfortable the grip and trigger pull was. This stock is one of the very few traditional tactical (I.e. non-chassis, which I wouldn’t want to stalk with) that has a shorter grip to trigger reach. I’d be opting for the carbon woodland ambush camo which looks particularly tasty also.

Scope - the quite literally brand new Delta Stryker 3.5-21 x 44 FFP DLR-1 reticle. I’ve owned and looked through many Delta’s and I’ve always liked the glass quality for price. The magnification range fits my purpose (along with 9 yard parallax if required) and it also has plenty of elevation for target shooting. The 34mm tube will give good FOV. I acknowledge the light gathering of the 44mm objective isn’t ideal for low light stalking, however, the weight (around 800g) and length (13”-ish) is appealing on that front and the nearest competitors on the lightweight but high quality scope front for stalking would be the Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 MIL which is same objective lens and the Kahles K318i, both of which have less maximum mag and are about a full grand more. I feel the reticle on my choice is good for stalking with the illuminated cross but still allows for quick drop calculations without the cluttering of a ‘Christmas Tree’.
(And I can get the thing on 0% klarna over a year at optics warehouse to ease the burden of the rifle build haha).

Very much welcome all thoughts, opinions and criticisms of my rationale. I’ve thought this through long and hard so don’t tear me apart too hard if I’m talking crap 😂
 
Why not get something like a T3x CTR and drop it into a PSE stock

It has a 24" semi weight barrel, 10 shot box mag and does well at both stalking duties and a day at the range.

So long as your not putting long shot strings in it will hold it's own.

Bit like this. My 6.5CM

IMG_20220905_191952.webp
 
I happily shoot all of my ‘stalking’ rifles out to 600yds at Bisley, and they shoot well.
Maybe not as well as a with a pure target rifle, but if you want to be hitting 4’s and above then you will be absolutely fine with pretty much any hunting rifle and a reasonable scope.
 
Totally applaud your thinking on this one, makes a lot of sense. However, a couple areas for your consideration - you're wanting to do this right first time & right to ask for input from the forum so hope this helps.

Barrel length - What distances will you be shooting targets at/to? if more than 600 yards don't drop the barrel length, if anything you might want to consider increasing it & reviewing your choice of moderator, perhaps going for a reflex type instead.

Scope - you've already mentioned the potential issue with low light & a 44mm objective which will be a real issue if you are woodland stalking or out at first & last light. This will be even more of an issue with the 'Christmas tree' reticle in the scope you mention. Another thing to check, if you're going to be shooting to 1000-1200 yards, is does the scope have sufficient elevation adjustment in it for this?

Scope - the scope you mention is a 'CQB' tactical scope & is not designed to fit on a sporting rifle, you may find issues with eye relief & interference with bolt knob/hand when loading etc. or, that he scope needs to sit high to allow the bolt to clear which then gives you an unnatural cheek position,etc. You may be better off looking at something more traditional that also gives you easy elevation correction for target shooting like a s/h Schmidt & Bender 4-16x long range or PM2, or similar, perhaps with a mil dot reticle to help with holding off for wind on targets.

All above for consideration 👍
 
22" on a 6.5CM is a good compromise. Mine only has 20" and has no problems shooting out to 1200m., even with a bare rifle weight of only 2.8kg.
edi
 
Personally and just personally now, if I was to have one calibre it would certainly not be 6.5 creed, I do have one I have to say but it certainly wouldn’t be my go to calibre if I had just one rifle. 👍
 
Personally and just personally now, if I was to have one calibre it would certainly not be 6.5 creed, I do have one I have to say but it certainly wouldn’t be my go to calibre if I had just one rifle. 👍
just curious ( noob so take at that value ) if not the 6.5 then what would you go for ? my son and his
shoot partner both have 6.5c and think Im mad for leaning towards 308 - I'm not planning on having a gun room any time soon so it'll be jus tthe one 'heavy' for me :-)
 
This is why I'm going down the Savage route. They're basically a switch barrel kit gun that's cheap as chips with a good selection of stuff available for them. You could have a lightweight short barrel for stalking and a longer heavy profile barrel for targets
 
just curious ( noob so take at that value ) if not the 6.5 then what would you go for ? my son and his
shoot partner both have 6.5c and think Im mad for leaning towards 308 - I'm not planning on having a gun room any time soon so it'll be jus tthe one 'heavy' for me :)
I would have a creed over a .308 mind!! The issue with small cases is speed and when copper becomes mandatory then them boys will have so sacrifice bullet weight to get the speed do the bullet will expand correctly. I was never a .270 fan but this whole non toxic issue that’s coming it is certainly the calibre to beat where you can go into any shop and buy some, you get plenty speed with a decent bullet weight. It will deal with anything in most parts of the world without too much trouble. As I say its Just my thoughts though
 
Hi all, thanks for all the replies and thoughts already!

Is your target shooting going to be for fun, or competing.
Definitely just fun and leisure, at least for several years into the foreseeable future.

Why not get something like a T3x CTR and drop it into a PSE stock

It has a 24" semi weight barrel, 10 shot box mag and does well at both stalking duties and a day at the range.

So long as your not putting long shot strings in it will hold it's own.

Bit like this. My 6.5CM

View attachment 335905

Definitely considered this mate, if I was going to buy a factory rifle for the job it was going to be the CTR, however I figured if I was going to be getting a smith to put it in a pricey stock then I may as well pay a bit more and get my preferred compromise barrel length (22") in a bit of a heavier profile.

Regarding the PSE stock, in all honesty they'd be my first choice as they're made more local, have excellent reviews and I love the look of them. My only concern is grip to trigger finger reach as stated in my OP, I know the A10 is one of the few 'tactical' stocks designed to have a closer reach so willing to go in 'blind' with that so to speak. I'd want to handle a PSE first I think. I feel like this is an oft overlooked consideration when setting up a rifle and if I'm going (almost) full custom and pay the price I want to make sure it's right for me. Yours looks lovely by the way!

Just curious as to why you would restrain from shooting big lowland reds with a 6.5? What would you be happy shooting them with? Genuinely curious and not trying to be some sort of smart arse.

Honestly, I'd probably take the shot. I just know there's a minority in the community who'd like a minimum of a .270 or .308 for them. I won't get into any debate about it though, no point here.

Totally applaud your thinking on this one, makes a lot of sense. However, a couple areas for your consideration - you're wanting to do this right first time & right to ask for input from the forum so hope this helps.

Barrel length - What distances will you be shooting targets at/to? if more than 600 yards don't drop the barrel length, if anything you might want to consider increasing it & reviewing your choice of moderator, perhaps going for a reflex type instead.

Scope - you've already mentioned the potential issue with low light & a 44mm objective which will be a real issue if you are woodland stalking or out at first & last light. This will be even more of an issue with the 'Christmas tree' reticle in the scope you mention. Another thing to check, if you're going to be shooting to 1000-1200 yards, is does the scope have sufficient elevation adjustment in it for this?

Scope - the scope you mention is a 'CQB' tactical scope & is not designed to fit on a sporting rifle, you may find issues with eye relief & interference with bolt knob/hand when loading etc. or, that he scope needs to sit high to allow the bolt to clear which then gives you an unnatural cheek position,etc. You may be better off looking at something more traditional that also gives you easy elevation correction for target shooting like a s/h Schmidt & Bender 4-16x long range or PM2, or similar, perhaps with a mil dot reticle to help with holding off for wind on targets.

All above for consideration 👍

Thanks for the feedback here, in terms of target distance, probably up to 1000 which I'd be content with 22", if I was going beyond that I'd definitely increase. But I agree with you and all others who've replied saying don't shorten to 20 so that's a done deal now 👍regarding scope, there's 2 reticles for the scope and I'd get the 'non-christmas tree' one. It definitely has sufficient elevation (very good in fact compared to some others). We certainly agree on the objective, do you have any recommendations in the price range that might fit the bill? As I said the weight and length were very appealing, the only downside I really see with it is the objective, really wish they'd made it 50. I'll have a look at some S&B scopes. Just an aside, I'm one of 'those' guys who likes my stuff new, especially when the rifle build would feel like a special one off for me. You've definitely given me food for thought regarding the scope though so thank you.
 
I would have a creed over a .308 mind!! The issue with small cases is speed and when copper becomes mandatory then them boys will have so sacrifice bullet weight to get the speed do the bullet will expand correctly. I was never a .270 fan but this whole non toxic issue that’s coming it is certainly the calibre to beat where you can go into any shop and buy some, you get plenty speed with a decent bullet weight. It will deal with anything in most parts of the world without too much trouble. As I say its Just my thoughts though

Which calibre would you go for then for my purpose? By the sounds of it you were leaning towards .270 but only based on the use of non-lead bullets potentially in the future? Also just curious like @DaveNeal haha. Cheers.
 
Which calibre would you go for then for my purpose? By the sounds of it you were leaning towards .270 but only based on the use of non-lead bullets potentially in the future? Also just curious like @DaveNeal haha. Cheer
.270 would be my hunting calibre for sure but if your reaching out to 1000yard then that changes things?it would do it but not known for being used?! Hmm it’s a hard one to be sure? Hey if your sticking under 250 yards with copper the creed would see you through to be fair if your hunting under 250 yards and you would get your 1000 yard with it too, but it will lack that punch compared to the .270 ect, the 6.5 prc or 7prc woujd be worth a look at?
 
Only reason the PRCs are out of the picture are because I’m not a home loader so need readily available factory ammo for both target and hunting use. I rarely see 6.5 PRC and think 7 PRC would be many years away on the consistent ammo supply front. 7 PRC might be ideal for the job though, if only I home loaded!
 
Only reason the PRCs are out of the picture are because I’m not a home loader so need readily available factory ammo for both target and hunting use. I rarely see 6.5 PRC and think 7 PRC would be many years away on the consistent ammo supply front. 7 PRC might be ideal for the job though, if only I home loaded!
They do 6.5 prc factory do they not?if like me you have 500 on your firearms just buy a batch (I used to buy 500’s before I started loading)
 
I had this thought
I went PSE etac Mil spec
Match grade brux barrel (big mistake)24inch
6.5cm
1-8 twist

The gun was an absolute hammer but far too heavy for running about the hill with after deer.

It was meant to a prs /stalker ,but it was too light for the range and too heavy for the stalking side of it.

So i got the barrel turned down and its not a pure stalker .

Just some food for thought
 
It's now*


I'd advise getting a task specific rifle especially for deer and prs,separately.

You could maybe make a case for a vermin rifle ,ie window shooting or haybale.
 
Oh and it's now a 6.5 284 instead of creedmoor.
There's nothing wrong with CM, my friend took some very rutty sika in Ireland with the 127gr lrx and longer than average distance.
 
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