Cycle Roundabouts

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caorach said:
You make good points and are probably correct that the amount of "police interest" might be low. However, police are very interested in motoring crime because the law is such that if a vehicle carrying your number plate commits a crime you are obliged to inform the police who was driving at that time or there is a penalty. This makes many motoring crimes very simple to detect and the motorist basically has to volunteer for the penalty or they will be subject to an even greater penalty, in terms of clear up rate it is a real win for the police and so they chase many motoring crimes with great enthusiasm.

Another angle on this is that I don't object to my car carrying a number plate, in fact some people are so attached to their number plates that they get personal ones that reflect their personality in some way. Why would cyclists object so strongly to number plates, licensing, and insurance when motorists generally embrace these things and appreciate their benefit? Putting a number plate on your bike is no great tragedy unless, of course, you are about to do something where the number plate could be provided to the police to identify you.

The other thing I will say is that I don't think the problem is tiny. It is many years since I saw a motorist do something that left me wishing I'd got the number so I could phone the police but when I walk around the town I frequently find myself wishing that the bike I've just observed had a number plate. One day recently I was nearly knocked down, by a cyclist, on a crossing, with the green man on display, as I crossed the road and the same day I watched a cyclist fly through a crossing (against a red light and with the green man showing for the pedestrians) passing between two elderly ladies who were chatting as they crossed and leaving them shocked but thankfully untouched. Most of us have also seen the cyclist who steams through the red light leaving motorists to take avoiding action etc. I would guestimate that, based on past experience, if bikes were to get number plates then I'd be reporting a cyclist to the police maybe 2 or 3 times per week. Unless, of course, the sudden loss of anonymity produced a dramatic change in behaviour. It would also be interesting to see if, after the introduction of number plates for bikes, there was any reduction in the number of cyclists involved in collisions. I would suggest that having their name and address on the back of their bikes in the shape of a number plate could be a big safety measure for many cyclists, indeed many of the victim cam cyclists might give up cycling altogether and move on to another hobby where they can be anonymously aggressive and get away with it.
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Nail on head
 
Dalua said:
Indeed! Perhaps we should all have an identification number on our clothing, visible prominently from all sides, whenever we're in a public place? That way no-one would ever do anything bad.

I get the feeling that the desire to register bicycles in this way is mainly expressed by motorists who are affronted that other road-users retain ancient freedoms which have since the inception of their foul, polluting and dangerous conveyances been, for very good reasons, denied them.

Tough titty!

🙃
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"Their foul..." . I take it you don't have a car then and take your rifle on your bike, or don't have a rifle either?
Oh (edit) and you get all your food (that you don't shoot or catch yourself ) delivered via carrier pigeon from a bio farm with no tractors or other foul conveyances polluting the air in order to produce your dinner. Prove me wrong or confirm your crass hypocrisy.
 
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Ade8mm said:
"Their foul..." . I take it you don't have a car then and take your rifle on your bike, or don't have a rifle either?
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You take it wrong, right and wrong.

Would it not be absurd for anyone, car-user or otherwise, to assert that cars were anything other than foul, polluting and dangerous - particularly relative to a bicycle?
 
Ade8mm said:
"Their foul..." . I take it you don't have a car then and take your rifle on your bike, or don't have a rifle either?
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Nowt wrong with taking a rifle on a bike. Or walking with a rifle. Or travelling by car with a rifle. What's rifles got to do with a discussion about roundabouts :-|?
 
Dalua said:
You take it wrong, right and wrong.

Would it not be absurd for anyone, car-user or otherwise, to assert that cars were anything other than foul, polluting and dangerous - particularly relative to a bicycle?
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No it would not be wrong (to assert) relative to a bicycle, though I think you and I went a little off-topic on that point tbh, :rolleyes:
 
last word
Dalua said:
Neither motorists nor cyclists should be riding/driving on the pavement. I've no doubt, given the behaviour of some motorists, that there are folk who would drive on the pavement if it were wide enough and it suited their own purposes at any particular moment - just as they will drive in 'bus and cycles lanes if it suits them, or use the 'phone. break the speed limit etc, etc.

Simply put, like the pavement cyclists, these people are recklessly selfish, as well as breaking the law.
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thanks dalua, im not against cyclists, go ride enjoy it, but leave the pavements for us walkers, and what really gets me is when me and my dog got run over, the police who i used to regard highly, said mmm if there is nobody hurt theres not alot we can do, moronic plods 100yds down the road 4 of them sat there at mcdonalds filling there faces . bs
 
Dalua said:
You take it wrong, right and wrong.

Would it not be absurd for anyone, car-user or otherwise, to assert that cars were anything other than foul, polluting and dangerous - particularly relative to a bicycle?
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I don't think so at all.

The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones, and the same thing happened with push bikes in the sense that they'd simply had their time and were relegated to being a sort of primitive hobby, like flint knapping. I'm all for people having their hobbies, but I am not in agreement with them pursuing these hobbies on the public highway - flint knapping on the dual carriageway would be extremely dangerous and measures should (and are) taken to ensure it doesn't happen and the same should apply to other primitive hobbies such as push biking.

The ability to quickly move people and goods about our country, and indeed the world, has changed society in a most marked way. If you take ill you can now be rushed to hospital in a matter of minutes, if you want something from Amazon it can be at your door tomorrow, if you value personal freedom you can get in your car and drive to your stalking. In turn access to cars has driven our economy, motorists pour vast amounts of cash into the economy and this funds the services that you expect and that keeps us healthy and well. In these days when we are plagued by "foul, polluting, and dangerous" cars people live twice as long as they did before the car was a common sight on our roads and the car has made its contribution to this progress while the push bike has been relegated to nothing but a way for rich people to pay twice the cost of a car for some human powered antique.

The UK needs to prioritise human welfare and the economy and until something better than the internal combustion engine powered car comes along we should be doing this by increasing the efficiency of private car transport, reducing fuel and energy prices, and building an economy around effective transport and industry friendly policies and pricing. In turn an strong economy will fund the rising health costs as people now regularly live into their 80s, it will fund the services well all expect, and it will give us a country that is robust in the face of events like this current virus. Those who don't want to live in a modern society but want to sit around eating grass in mud huts while oiling their push bike chain are welcome to do this but not on the public highway and not to the detriment of the vast majority who want the advantages the modern world brings.
 
caorach said:
I don't think so at all.

The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones, and the same thing happened with push bikes in the sense that they'd simply had their time and were relegated to being a sort of primitive hobby, like flint knapping. I'm all for people having their hobbies, but I am not in agreement with them pursuing these hobbies on the public highway - flint knapping on the dual carriageway would be extremely dangerous and measures should (and are) taken to ensure it doesn't happen and the same should apply to other primitive hobbies such as push biking.

The ability to quickly move people and goods about our country, and indeed the world, has changed society in a most marked way. If you take ill you can now be rushed to hospital in a matter of minutes, if you want something from Amazon it can be at your door tomorrow, if you value personal freedom you can get in your car and drive to your stalking. In turn access to cars has driven our economy, motorists pour vast amounts of cash into the economy and this funds the services that you expect and that keeps us healthy and well. In these days when we are plagued by "foul, polluting, and dangerous" cars people live twice as long as they did before the car was a common sight on our roads and the car has made its contribution to this progress while the push bike has been relegated to nothing but a way for rich people to pay twice the cost of a car for some human powered antique.

The UK needs to prioritise human welfare and the economy and until something better than the internal combustion engine powered car comes along we should be doing this by increasing the efficiency of private car transport, reducing fuel and energy prices, and building an economy around effective transport and industry friendly policies and pricing. In turn an strong economy will fund the rising health costs as people now regularly live into their 80s, it will fund the services well all expect, and it will give us a country that is robust in the face of events like this current virus. Those who don't want to live in a modern society but want to sit around eating grass in mud huts while oiling their push bike chain are welcome to do this but not on the public highway and not to the detriment of the vast majority who want the advantages the modern world brings.
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Mostly I agree with your posts, but.....
if I had my way, I'd ban the private motor car....
globally!
I hate them. Sadly, a necessary evil in the society in which we currently live, but which came first? The motorcar or our stupid breakneck way of life?
Time for everyone to slow down, I reckon.
 
kes said:
The disproportionate rate of cycle injuries can be explained by
1. Disproportionate vulnerability Size and hardness of car versus bike - Cars are made to exacting passenger safety standards - bikes are obviously not
2. Conspicuity
3. Rider behaviour
4. disproportionate size of bikes combined with 1,2,3.

There are new rules about passing 1.5M from cyclists and many with helmets tend to ensure motorists do exactly that. Cyclist are perhaps more 'militant' than they perhaps should be.
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and will this 1,5 m apply to pedestrians on pavement s no
 
bluesako said:
and will this 1,5 m apply to pedestrians on pavement s no
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Pedestrians have no power base - they are just 'the general public'. There are so many issues which get no attention because its just general public opinion and those in power know better or fail - I hesitate to say e.g. immigration.
 
I may give the impression that I am against cyclists but that isn't strictly true! What I am against is the lycra clad idiots that seem to think that they own the roads and can do whatever they like with little or no consideration for any other road users while they cycle along showing a complete disregard for the law/highway code - Things like riding 4 or 5 abreast and refusing to move over to allow motorists to pass them, or the cyclists who think that when traffic lights are on red those red lights only apply to motorists but don't apply to cyclists.
Only yesterday I saw a chap and his young daughter nearly get run down by a cyclist who rather than slow down when approaching a set of traffic lights that were turning to amber and would obviously be on red before he got to them (with people waiting to cross at a pedestrian crossing) rather than stop 9As the law required him to) decided to try to speed up with the obvious intention of running the red lights and nearly taking the chap and his daughter out in the process! Or the idiot that thought he could ignore double broken "Give Way" lines at a roundabout and nearly ended up with his head through my Freelander side window, and then had the cheek to shout at trying to say it was my fault for (Legally) driving round the roundabout! (It is because of incidents like those that I always have my dash cam running whenever I am driving which also records my speed all the time)
If cyclist want to loose or improve their "not so good name" or be given "special privileges" like these bike roundabouts then maybe they could learn how to ride safely with reasonable consideration for others (And the law) and then explain how they can condone that sort of downright dangerous riding while in pursuit of their "hobby" while always trying to blame the often innocent motorists.
I accept that there are good and bad cyclists just as I fully realise that there are good and bad drivers, but unfortunately it's the bad ones that seem to stay in your memories!
 
Several posters on here have referred to cycling as a hobby, but for some people it's their principal mode of transport, so hardly a hobby. Anyone who lives within a city would be mad to try to drive to work, which is why many people travel to work by bike. Not a hobby. Even out here in the sticks, where a car is perhaps a necessity rather than a luxury, I know of a deerstalker who has only a bicycle. No car.

(Incidentally, I don't cycle. Just thought I'd make that clear. I also get irritated by lycra clad cyclists riding three abreast and holding everyone up. However, if more people routinely cycled (or walked) and less people drove, then the problem would go away. And the world would be cleaner.)
 
Only bug bear with cyclists is timing. They should if at all possible avoid rush hour cycling as people trying to get to work or get home asap. Obviously if you comute to work by bike then not applicable and motorists should be thankful there's fewer cars on the road as a consequence. I'm a cyclist, I avoid my country roads at rush hour I do it for keeping fit, if more people did it'd be a good thing. Healthier lifestyle proven to reduce risk of many obesity related ailments and good for your state of mind, if you're not knocked off by an idiot boy racer ;-)
It's also illegal to ride even two abreast.
 
see there are some nice cyclists like glasshalffull out there take note all pavement riding dickh*"ds
 
glasshalffull said:
Only bug bear with cyclists is timing. They should if at all possible avoid rush hour cycling as people trying to get to work or get home asap. Obviously if you comute to work by bike then not applicable and motorists should be thankful there's fewer cars on the road as a consequence. I'm a cyclist, I avoid my country roads at rush hour I do it for keeping fit, if more people did it'd be a good thing. Healthier lifestyle proven to reduce risk of many obesity related ailments and good for your state of mind, if you're not knocked off by an idiot boy racer ;)
It's also illegal to ride even two abreast.
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It's a shame that so many of the "week-end cyclists" that we see using the roads nowadays don't know that - And if they do it's an even bigger shame that they choose to ignore it and give so many other cyclists a bad name!

VSS - I take your point about calling cycling a hobby, maybe a poor choice of words on my part. When I refer to cycling being a hobby I am referring to the clowns you see going about in groups a couple of dozen or more generally racing around and believing that they own the roads and behaving in a manner that leaves you believing that they are idiots thinking of no-body but themselves!
 
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