Differences in T&T of Deerdogs and BMH/HS; Number 2; Verweisen

[stone]

When I was in Poland stalking Boar, the guy there had a Jagd terrier for follow up work
It yipped all the way along the trail in excitment to show it was on the right lines, then when it came upon the wounded boar the yipping turned to excited barking as it kept the boar bailing
at that point the dog handler along with his trusty shotgun and solid slugs moved in to the sound of the dog to despatch the Boar
I was told if the dog came upon the boar which was dead, it howled untill the handler got there
even thou it was thick forestry, it was still foot friendly and the dog man knew his way around the forest
not a method I would use for some of the forests I hav stalked in Scotland especially at night like it was in Poland but still worthy of most other terrains in the UK

 

[steyr243]

stone you will be aware of what "thick" plantations are like in scotland they do block out the sun to say the least!

 

[Wolverine]

stone you will be aware of what "thick" plantations are like in scotland they do block out the sun to say the least!

+1,dark even in middle of day
Jagdterrier,nice wee things with attitude

 

[steyr243]

and goggles are a must have

 

[stone]

The tread "Differences in T&T etc" developped in a different way than I thought so rather than hang this at the end I thought I would start a new thread.

Verweisen, a German tracking term, I do not know if an english translation exists (Google does not produce anything) is about the most useful bit one should teach a scent dog.

I have never seen it from any other breed of dog but I stand corrected.

What is it?

Quite simply. The dog is taught that as soon as it smells a bit of bone, blood, guts, hair or whatever bit that comes from the deer you track it should stop so that the handler can look at it.


Now who uses this aid in the UK and does anybody know of non-scenthounds who have been trained in this? The Danes perhaps?

earlier link did not work
this is another link from when my dog was 18 months old approx , I think this is the right one
( computer problems as it seems I hav a gremlin playing haoc at the mo )
you can still see the signs of her stopping at each droplet of blood to let me know
by this time in her training I had totally given up trying that method as it took way to long to find even the simplest of finds let alone a good runner
this was a real time track I tried to film for another post , we are nearing the end of the track so lots of air scent about and a carcass as you will see from her change of pace and effort
she was initially trained to walk heel along a track on or off a leash , so I could see everything she did and hav full control if a shot arose on both wounded deer and unshot deer
the moment the camera came out it all goes to pot
time from initial shot to found deer was less than an hour if memory serves correct
it was getting dark and I had a big feeling the deer would be found dead in anycase

 

[stone]

stone you will be aware of what "thick" plantations are like in scotland they do block out the sun to say the least!

yes and they also hav drainage ditches, lots of them or planted on ridges
not a nice place to try and push through at pace especialy with your hood over your head trying to save you from the branches and needles
the ground we hunted was a lot more foot friendly to say the least

 

[barongcw]

This is as a given Baron
However this I feel where we in the uk really really lag behind our continental neighbours,especially point 2
We don't analyse the shot site as we should,I do but hand on heart how many of us do!

You give me a thought. Am away shooting at pheasants early next week but will then write a track on "investigation of the shot place" as I was taught by the head of the German CID and the Chief inspector of the Berlin murder squad, both avid trackers.

As you can imagine there will be microscopic sifting of the evidence with tissues and a magnifying glass and interrogation of witnesses.

Should be fun to relive that morning.

 

[Wolverine]

You give me a thought. Am away shooting at pheasants early next week but will then write a track on "investigation of the shot place" as I was taught by the head of the German CID and the Chief inspector of the Berlin murder squad, both avid trackers.

As you can imagine there will be microscopic sifting of the evidence with tissues and a magnifying glass and interrogation of witnesses.

Should be fun to relive that morning.

Brilliant,interrogation of witnesses
Vee have vays of making you talk

 

[6pointer]

Nice one stone loved the lead work lol nice we find i do hope you did not leave that beast for 2 days as you know that now cannot be entered in to the food chain. strike site inspection mine was almost none existent up until i started to teach and assess for lev 2 and then it did improve (ABIT). I have been lazy and it is in fact dogs that create that situation because there is no better inspector of a strike site than a dog. Baron in my opinion there are occasions when a dog should be let off the lead to work a well alive animal and hold it for dispatch or let off if you know the animal has been badly shot eg in the leg or brisket were it can travel long distances. If i keep my dog on a lead all the time how am i able to really trust a dog who is running free on a line for the first time surly being off the lead as a pup will give the dog and owner confidence in how they will both behave.

 

[barongcw]

1 I started to teach and assess for lev 2 and then it did improve (ABIT). I have been lazy and it is in fact dogs that create that situation because there is no better inspector of a strike site than a dog.

2 Baron in my opinion there are occasions when a dog should be let off the lead to work a well alive animal and hold it for dispatch or let off if you know the animal has been badly shot eg in the leg or brisket were it can travel long distances. If i keep my dog on a lead all the time how am i able to really trust a dog who is running free on a line for the first time surly being off the lead as a pup will give the dog and owner confidence in how they will both behave.

1 I have never passed either level 1 or 2 but suggested to my daughter that she started with level 1. Looking at the 250 page booklet I found three basic mistakes on the one page to do with dogs. Hope you do not teach your pupils in level 2 that "there is no better inspector of a strike site than a dog". Very much hope you are joking but fear you might not be.

2 As I said a number of times if after you investigated the shotplace with the dog watching you from upwind you came to the conclusion the deer was belly shot or had a legwound you leave it for a few hours, however cruel that may seem. You then work the track with the dog on a lead and when you see it coming out of its woundbed and after you have satisfied yourself that it is the wounded deer and not another you then put the dog on the hot scent and depending on training and courage the dog will stand in front of it or drag it down. The germans call it Hetze.
There are some videos on the net to show you how to train a young hound for that but they are in german.

 

[6pointer]

When i train for Lev2 Baron i train for safety ability and hygiene dog work is up to the stalker it is not compulsory. But if i have a deer hit and running my dogs will hit it running as soon as possible.

 

[Wolverine]

As i have said we in the uk tend to be a bit lazy at the shot site,i now treat it like a crime scene,if you have a beast run on you,even if you dont,a lot can be gleaned from the shot site for the future
eg head or neck shot,look at the hair in case in future,one gets up on you and runs,at least you have an idea then where you have hit it,there are also 5 types of bone you can find at the shot site,i wonder how many uk stalkers could name them?
As for dogs running down wounded deer,what works for me is maybe different to the next lad depending on ground,proximity to roads,houses etc
I like to let the beast stiffen right up if gut shot or leg shot,different situations call for different measures,all this comes with experience
We should really endeavour to treat the shot site like a crime scene then its a lot easier to deduce when and if to use your dog IMO

 

[Paul 600]

The germans call it Hetze.
There are some videos on the net to show you how to train a young hound for that but they are in german.

Baron, have you got any links?

 

[stone]

Personally
I try and investigate each shot site and surroundings as much as poss
as yes my dog is a great indicater to the shot site but not great at telling me what has gone on
why try and track a lightly brisket shot deer
yes lots of hair and a little blood that soon fizzles out , the likely hood is the deer will live , you'll never really track that one especialy if it is a Red , Ska or Fallow
same as a neck shot which has just been creased , the deer may go down leaving a mass of hair but in reality it gets up and runs for ever, often survives
just a couple of the possibilities that happen
if you don't treat the shot site as a crime scene how will you really know how to proceed
dogs are good , but not that good
they need our input to work as a team

 

[Cut+Squirt]

As i have said we in the uk tend to be a bit lazy at the shot site,i now treat it like a crime scene,if you have a beast run on you,even if you dont,a lot can be gleaned from the shot site for the future
eg head or neck shot,look at the hair in case in future,one gets up on you and runs,at least you have an idea then where you have hit it,there are also 5 types of bone you can find at the shot site,i wonder how many uk stalkers could name them?
As for dogs running down wounded deer,what works for me is maybe different to the next lad depending on ground,proximity to roads,houses etc
I like to let the beast stiffen right up if gut shot or leg shot,different situations call for different measures,all this comes with experience
We should really endeavour to treat the shot site like a crime scene then its a lot easier to deduce when and if to use your dog IMO

I agree, then get the dog on the case.

 

[barongcw]

Baron, have you got any links?

Could not find them yesterday in a hurry. Will have another look when I am back.

 

[Paul 600]

Could not find them yesterday in a hurry. Will have another look when I am back.

Good man!