Different make of cases with same load & bullet what effect ?

[charlieboy-shooter]

I have several different makes of used cartridges all fired from my gun. When I eventually get everthing together and actually make my 1st load how much of a variation would these different cases make to the accuracy when everthing else is identical ? or should you always use the same make of brass.

It's been sometime, since I've started doing something new, that has left me wanting to ask so many questions. Maybe it's the thought that it could all go so terribly wrong.

 

[Selous]

It has the potential to make a significant difference but when I have tried it before I have not noticed much difference. Perhaps I was just lucky? I suspect if you are running hot loads you should be very careful changing anything but my loads at the time were moderate so there were no adverse effects seen

 

[wraith]

use the same make of brass every manufacturer used difrent brass and by using difrent manufacturers the case capasitey may change so one load that you have tested may well be safe but using a difrent case may give higher presure poped primer as the thiknes of the brass will chainge pressure within the case results may chainge which you would think would affect acurasey but im no expert have never triyed mixing brass or components as was told this was not a good idea

 

[Paul at Fechan]

will make no difference at sensible charge weights

 

[Tackleberry270]

Different case wall thickness between makes is common and this will give you slightly different internal capacities. The elasticity of the brass will also differ as some are softer/harder than others. You want to try and keep things the same as much as possible as you can't expect to get good results, and perhaps more importantly, duplicate them otherwise. There is safety (differences in pressure) to consider as well.

 

[8x57]

Consistent safe accurate reliable ammunition is the aim of most reloaders.
To be consistent surely you need to use the cases of the same length and internal volume hence pressure/velocity. Hence the accepted approach is that loads should be developed using cases of the same make and preferably batch.

If you are willing to accept a lesser standard and keep your powder charges down to ensure that safe pressures are never exceeded so what, continue with your lucky dip approach. But if you want to achieve the best possible accuracy using the components and rifle that you have wouldn't it be better to accept what all the reloading manuals say is the best method of doing so.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Consistent safe accurate reliable ammunition is the aim of most reloaders.
To be consistent surely you need to use the cases of the same length and internal volume hence pressure/velocity. Hence the accepted approach is that loads should be developed using cases of the same make and preferably batch.

If you are willing to accept a lesser standard and keep your powder charges down to ensure that safe pressures are never exceeded so what, continue with your lucky dip approach. But if you want to achieve the best possible accuracy using the components and rifle that you have wouldn't it be better to accept what all the reloading manuals say is the best method of doing so.

so I take it you don't like the fact that I group sub inch with any mix of brass cases with 44gr of vit140 and can also mix 150gr sst's and B-tips in the mag to do it. I don't need match accuracy to kill my deer, I have skill, ability and 20 years of experience for that. There's no need to subscribe to commercial analism to make the finest ammunition from the most expensive components. The bullet is the key component in reloading, then the charge. The case and primer are far less important. I'd like to hear how pressure variation with standard charges due to case volume differs during the combustion of propellent effects the bullets performance at 200m

After all we're talking about deer stalking and not 1000m match. The aim of most reloaders is not perfection, it is simply improved quality ammunition at a more affordable price.

 

[8x57]

You may get results that are within your own acceptable parameters Paul using the lucky dip system, but you will definately get more consistant results if you seperate your cases by maker/batch. I don't subscribe to the benchrest super accurate mentality myself because like yourself I limit my shooting to 200 yards maximum other than the occasional venture onto a outdoor range and shoot further. The principle that I work to is KISS, but I don't see any reason for not trying to achieve the most consistant results using simple basic processes.
A friend of mine on the other hand who doesn't shoot at any greater distances than I do was complaining the other night that ammunition loaded on one of his two rockchucker presses produces ammo with 2 thou more run out than ammo loaded on the other press. At 200 yards what difference is that going to make. I know it can get a bit obsessive but I think that you on the other hand may be taking just a bit too far the other way. If you are happy with your results carry on, it doesn't really bother me one way or the other but I think that I will continue to seperate my cases by manufacturer as this gives me the results that I am happy with.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

well, ok load to your 'happy' standard but the quality of my dodgy ammunition is as good as any other reload intended for deer, the fraction potential variation of each individual bullet is not measurable by the ability of the best deerstalkers I know. My process:

fire
clean
de-prime after inspection
pocket clean
FL size
prime
charge 5 from thrower, pour and weigh for weight and consistency
charge and seat
weight batch on digital scales for consistency ie missed charge
go stalking
gun go bang, deer fall over

 

[see it shoot it]

will make no difference at sensible charge weights

Mmmmmmm not really great advice to hand out,seeing there can be so many differences in cases.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Mmmmmmm not really great advice to hand out,seeing there can be so many differences in cases.

really? like what...? I've a big selection of brass, the lapua compared to to winchester in 308 has the biggest variation in case weight and volume. By my measuring a whole 1.6 grains of difference in charge potential. If you took the winchester to it's maximum charge and put that in a lapua, you might have an issue but the other way round no. So I load with a moderate charge that puts my bullet out at about 2,650 and performs on paper and beasts as well as humanly possible. The charge goes in any case I use and performs as well in my rifle as anyone's who uses my reloads and there's a couple of bods on here.

Why do some people place so much misunderstood concern in the construction component properties of ammunition? This amazes me at a technologist who is qualified to comment on this. You have a case that holds charge and that's it's job, even when a charge is compressed using an appropriate propellent but obviously not excessively, the pressure difference is marginal as a percentage contrast and certainly of no risk to your rifles integrity.

If on the other hand you use inaccurate data or make a mistake in your use of it or load with an unsuitable or experimental powder, things can go very wrong and very quickly. With a slower burning powder like vit140 in 308 even loaded to the shoulder, my rifle is in no danger of 'blowing up'. Put the same weight of a fast burning powder in error though and it's probably curtains.

The case holds charge, the amount of charge and grade builds the pressure and commercial cases have a very small capacity to vary this. If you were a match shooter at 1000m though this variation with the highest spec of rifle will be measurable. A stalking rifle, not a chance in the working mans hands.

ps, between my two tikka t3's I've fired 3-5,000 (thousand yes) rounds of ammo with half being my reloads. They still shoot like the day I got them out of the box and I've never had an ammo problem with reloads except two maybe 3 failed primers. Factory stuff, loads of misfires over the years.

 

[8x57]

Just out of interest what sort of variation in velocity are you getting with your lucky dip loads as oposed to batched same case manufacturer loads over the chronagraph?

 

[Muir]

I tend to agree. With "moderate" charges (pressures) there won't be any safety problems but having done a bit of load development over the years I can tell you that the point where maximum pressures are reached will vary between makes of cases. This is borne out in both pressure guns and manual head expansion measurement.

What will happen is a performance issue. I shot some match 308 loads last night. One batch loaded in Lake City brass, the other batch in Winchester. Both shot well but to a different point of impact by better than an inch at 100M and this went on for the entire shooting session. The LC brass groups were about 1" lower across a string of targets.

There is a reason that we are advised to be ready to adjust our loads if switching components and this illustrates why. In this case, safety wasn't the issue, just point of impact. This also illustrates why mixed cases from different makers can have you chasing the accuracy weasel every weekend and never get close to catching it.~Muir

 

[charlieboy-shooter]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies. Good point about chasing the accuracy weasel, that why I asked. As said, I have not loaded anything yet, as I want to be clear on things as much as I can before I start. I did mean that I was going to resize / trim all the cases the same ( as well as I can anyway,as I have not tryed to do it yet) & seat the bullet the same, with the same measured load & primer. If it makes any difference but the fired cases I have are the following make & bullet. Privi partizan from 100 g SP, Winchester from 55g BT silver tip, Hornady from 58 g vmax and Fiochhi 100g SP. I've had someone show me the process of how to reload with my fired cases. He did not do any of the Privi's, but after resizing some of the others, nearly all of the Hornady were to long & need to be trimmed.

Thanks

 

[see it shoot it]

really? like what...? I've a big selection of brass, the lapua compared to to winchester in 308 has the biggest variation in case weight and volume. By my measuring a whole 1.6 grains of difference in charge potential. If you took the winchester to it's maximum charge and put that in a lapua, you might have an issue but the other way round no. So I load with a moderate charge that puts my bullet out at about 2,650 and performs on paper and beasts as well as humanly possible. The charge goes in any case I use and performs as well in my rifle as anyone's who uses my reloads and there's a couple of bods on here.

Why do some people place so much misunderstood concern in the construction component properties of ammunition? This amazes me at a technologist who is qualified to comment on this. You have a case that holds charge and that's it's job, even when a charge is compressed using an appropriate propellent but obviously not excessively, the pressure difference is marginal as a percentage contrast and certainly of no risk to your rifles integrity.

If on the other hand you use inaccurate data or make a mistake in your use of it or load with an unsuitable or experimental powder, things can go very wrong and very quickly. With a slower burning powder like vit140 in 308 even loaded to the shoulder, my rifle is in no danger of 'blowing up'. Put the same weight of a fast burning powder in error though and it's probably curtains.

The case holds charge, the amount of charge and grade builds the pressure and commercial cases have a very small capacity to vary this. If you were a match shooter at 1000m though this variation with the highest spec of rifle will be measurable. A stalking rifle, not a chance in the working mans hands.

ps, between my two tikka t3's I've fired 3-5,000 (thousand yes) rounds of ammo with half being my reloads. They still shoot like the day I got them out of the box and I've never had an ammo problem with reloads except two maybe 3 failed primers. Factory stuff, loads of misfires over the years.

apart from
case volume
case length
case neck thickness
case hardness
primer pocket depth

if your reloads work (to a point) all well and good but don't advice others on the practice of mixing brass as it could cause problems

 

[Tom D]

I have a wide variety of brass, and have tried loading most of it, one thing I have noticed is that some grows a lot quicker than others, so if using mixed loads check the sizes carefully.

 

[charlieboy-shooter]

Assuming that the brass is not showing signs of stressing how many times can you reload a case or is that dependant on the pressure of the load??. Also should you alway fully resize the case as the guy that gave me a demo stopped a few mm shy of full resizing. This left a very slight visual ring near the rim of the bullet, which to me looked like a pictures of head seperation I have seen in a book. But it was not as the bullet had only be fired once & didnot have the ring prior to resizing.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

apart from
case volume
case length
case neck thickness
case hardness
primer pocket depth

if your reloads work (to a point) all well and good but don't advice others on the practice of mixing brass as it could cause problems

yeh cause you're an expert clearly... and of the things you mention, will any of those make a case dangerous when proper practice is followed, unsuitable for reloading and unusable or does it just point out the 'snob elite reloader' class among us who can't take it when a guy throws together a well made reload and kills a deer in a way that no other bullet made by any other person or factory would have bettered... if you think that I'm wrong, get a life!

The op asked a straight forward question, can you mix brass? The answer is YES... God will not strike you down for mixing brass and loading moderately charged ammunition that will then be of no issue. Not everyone needs to develop the ultimate load for their rifle. For those that take reloading from the entry level upwards to then strive for perfection, they may obviously then become component specific and far more dedicated to the process.

Not everyone is anal, wants to be or should be pushed in that direction.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Just out of interest what sort of variation in velocity are you getting with your lucky dip loads as oposed to batched same case manufacturer loads over the chronagraph?

it's not enough to be noticeable on paper or deer, certainly would be interesting to find out just to shut people up!

 

[see it shoot it]

yeh cause you're an expert clearly... and of the things you mention, will any of those make a case dangerous when proper practice is followed, unsuitable for reloading and unusable or does it just point out the 'snob elite reloader' class among us who can't take it when a guy throws together a well made reload and kills a deer in a way that no other bullet made by any other person or factory would have bettered... if you think that I'm wrong, get a life!

The op asked a straight forward question, can you mix brass? The answer is YES... God will not strike you down for mixing brass and loading moderately charged ammunition that will then be of no issue. Not everyone needs to develop the ultimate load for their rifle. For those that take reloading from the entry level upwards to then strive for perfection, they may obviously then become component specific and far more dedicated to the process.

Not everyone is anal, wants to be or should be pushed in that direction.

obviously more of an expert than your good self and safer,it takes just as long to reload a round correctly than it does in a sloppy manner,the tool to measure correctly costs about £20 so not really breaking the bank now is it.
but I suspose we all work to and expect different standards.As toi the OPs question the answer is yes if you want a pick and mix sub standard load.but do not go any where near maximum powder charge as it could cause problems.
Oh by the way stop getting so aggressive,its not big and its not clever