Digital or glass.

Scuffy, I chose my words very carefully and do not believe they would give ammunition to the "antis". The "killers" I refer to are individuals who seek to obtain maximum results with little regard to their quarry and ethics. I am a gamekeeper.
 
I think we have far too many deer for many reasons! (guess why Scotland ditched the Stag season!) also the one hour before after sun set was put in place just What happens in Germany is of no consequence here as they drive their deer/boar with dogs/people into waiting guns. Do that here and it would be uproar, shoot a deer just as the last light has gone and people start complaining people are poaching.

People never complain about rats/foxes/rabbits being shot with digital/thermal yet are happy to pull the race card when it is it is covered in the deer act.

Subject to sections 6 and 8 below, if any person takes or intentionally kills any deer between the expiry of the first hour after sunset and the beginning of the last hour before sunrise, he shall be guilty of an offence.
No, Sir. We don‘t drive them into waiting guns. We stir them up in open country/woodland in order to get a chance to see them at all.
In my opinion this is the only chance we have left to get a sight of them during daylight as the accelerated use of night vision has made deer more wary than ever. Fekking NV!!!! I hate it.
 
For foxing it has to be thermal or NV, or a mix of the two. But when it comes to deer, having had NVs run out of battery, pixels go on the screen, and whatever daily gremlin that has decided to take up residence in the electronics (not to mention being clumsy, pressing the wrong button and turning the damned thing off by accident at a vital moment) it is S&B fixed mag glass. Why? It just works!

Oh, and I don't have to think about it!
 
No, Sir. We don‘t drive them into waiting guns. We stir them up in open country/woodland in order to get a chance to see them at all.
In my opinion this is the only chance we have left to get a sight of them during daylight as the accelerated use of night vision has made deer more wary than ever. Fekking NV!!!! I hate it.
@Min 3.18 he says each dog has its own area to DRIVE out the game :rofl: 🤫
The guns are waiting lol

Also P iss poor shooting

 
We were just saying yesterday. What would be the difference between a Swarovski ds and a alpex 4k lrf for shooting reds open hill .apart from the alpex is quarter of the price
Makes you wonder what the comparison with glass and digital will be in the next couple of years say
 
And if the big hitters in the glass world incorporate digital in the future ??

They will probably be so far behind the dedicated digital r&d firms that the step change they need to overcome is unviable and stick to premium product premium price aka Rolex strategy.

Id like a digital scope in the future for sure.
 
And if the big hitters in the glass world incorporate digital in the future ??
The only thing the "big hitters" as you say have going for them is the "quality" if their glass that allows a few extra minutes of low light shooting compared to other traditional scopes half or less of the price. The only way I could see them 'incorporating' digital is similar to the Habroks and having half a traditional binoculars with their current lenses and coatings and then a digital side.

There are already better makes of scopes than the top European glass manufacturers when it comes to tactical, reliability, warranties, thermal, digital etc

The majority of European stalkers buy one of the European big 3 because of tradition, they look the part, old stalkers tell new stalkers that's what they need, they give you 10 mins more shooting time, better resale etc. Those manufacturers either sell traditional scopes to cater to those sort of stalkers or they add gimmicks that aren't as good as other manufacturers to cater for those people with more money than the ability to look for alternatives.
 
Glass everytime. Ergonomically a glass scope sits much better of a rifle. Is always working, and you just need to raise and shoot.

Electronic digital scopes you need to turn on, get the right menu, check battery levels, recharge etc etc. And the image is still not as good as a decent glass.
The only correct statement here is the last one. My Pard DS35 sits on standby all the time and only the touch of a switch is needed and the startup time is in micro seconds. If I turn it right off it takes three seconds. No recharging as a battery lasts four hours and changing the battery takes about 20 seconds. In good light the lens cover is closed except for the peep hole and no focusing is required. Two clicks of the most prominent switch on the device measures the range and sets the aiming point under the cross hairs. How much simpler can you get?
 
The only correct statement here is the last one. My Pard DS35 sits on standby all the time and only the touch of a switch is needed and the startup time is in micro seconds. If I turn it right off it takes three seconds. No recharging as a battery lasts four hours and changing the battery takes about 20 seconds. In good light the lens cover is closed except for the peep hole and no focusing is required. Two clicks of the most prominent switch on the device measures the range and sets the aiming point under the cross hairs. How much simpler can you get?
The Zulus is very similar.

People who struggle with too many features either don't spend time practicing and are missing out on what life has to offer.
 
Hik Cheetah more than good enough for all my needs incuding deer, plus foxing ratting rabbiting etc etc on different rifles. Good value in my opinion.
 
The only correct statement here is the last one. My Pard DS35 sits on standby all the time and only the touch of a switch is needed and the startup time is in micro seconds. If I turn it right off it takes three seconds. No recharging as a battery lasts four hours and changing the battery takes about 20 seconds. In good light the lens cover is closed except for the peep hole and no focusing is required. Two clicks of the most prominent switch on the device measures the range and sets the aiming point under the cross hairs. How much simpler can you get?
You still have to flick another switch. With a traditional scope its just push off safety and fire. As for aiming points etc. - no real need at normal stalking ranges.

For me stalking is a recreation and to get away from the laptop, the phone and endless apps and other devices.

But each to their own.

One thing I absolutely certain is that electronic devices have a very finite life, and go to zero re sale value in a short space of time. I regularly use a Zeiss scope that was made in 1974. Optics are superb and no need to change it.

Yes a digital might allow me to pick out a deer in the middle of a clear fell or in dense bracken or gorse. But I am experienced enough to fully understand the consequences of shooting deer in that sort of cover.

I would much rather wait until they are in the open, can be clearly seen and are easily recovered, than spend a couple of hours getting covered in ticks, ****ing sweat, twisting ankles and getting home long after midnight. Be patient is usually a lot quicker and easier in the long run.
 
The most important word in that statement is DAY - as opposed to dawn, dusk or dark, where glass either comes a poor second to NV or is completely useless

Cheers

Bruce
How did everyone manage before digital arrived? They did so by accepting that nature should, and will, win the battle with the final minutes of legal light. Now people have got the facility to shoot way beyond legal light, it draws in too much ambiguity and plays on the human nature of temptation. It would be very interesting to see just how many are in breach of the law, whether it be by seconds, minutes or more... but officer I didn't check the time, my digital scope was still in day mode🤦 The simplicity of the recording function has also bred a generation who must upload their kill video to every form of social media to demonstrate how much of a superstar they are. That trend is worse in those managing foxes, but rapidly becoming very common in those managing deer. Really useful for pursuits already under significant scrutiny! I personally think deer management with digital scopes (thermal, day or nv) should be banned, unless under night licence.
 
How did everyone manage before digital arrived? They did so by accepting that nature should, and will, win the battle with the final minutes of legal light. Now people have got the facility to shoot way beyond legal light, it draws in too much ambiguity and plays on the human nature of temptation. It would be very interesting to see just how many are in breach of the law, whether it be by seconds, minutes or more... but officer I didn't check the time, my digital scope was still in day mode🤦 The simplicity of the recording function has also bred a generation who must upload their kill video to every form of social media to demonstrate how much of a superstar they are. That trend is worse in those managing foxes, but rapidly becoming very common in those managing deer. Really useful for pursuits already under significant scrutiny! I personally think deer management with digital scopes (thermal, day or nv) should be banned, unless under night licence.
Quite easy I take a time stamped picture, but people shoot deer on last light with a glass scope then it runs takes a good amount of time to find it then have a "hot deer" in the truck. " but officer I shot it with a glass scope but couldn't see it that well" honest :tiphat:
 
How did everyone manage before digital arrived? They did so by accepting that nature should, and will, win the battle with the final minutes of legal light. Now people have got the facility to shoot way beyond legal light, it draws in too much ambiguity and plays on the human nature of temptation. It would be very interesting to see just how many are in breach of the law, whether it be by seconds, minutes or more... but officer I didn't check the time, my digital scope was still in day mode🤦 The simplicity of the recording function has also bred a generation who must upload their kill video to every form of social media to demonstrate how much of a superstar they are. That trend is worse in those managing foxes, but rapidly becoming very common in those managing deer. Really useful for pursuits already under significant scrutiny! I personally think deer management with digital scopes (thermal, day or nv) should be banned, unless under night licence.
Hmm.
I am no expert on deer history but I suspect that the “one hour” requirement has it’s origins as a poaching prevention measure several centuries ago when deer were the preserve of the landed gentry. Times and deer numbers/spread have clearly changed over the intervening years to the point where night-shooting licences are common. If there was no deer problem presumably said licence would not be granted. Some call it progress, IMHO it is rightly still controlled.
For me “Kill videos”, like calling or stalking any living animal, are about being able to re-live the stalk which by far is where the real excitement and dare I say, pleasure come from. If it is the kill that floats one’s particular boat then I believe you are missing a very large part of the stalking experience and would be better employed playing video games. Call me old-fashioned but IMHO There is nothing close to the excitement of watching a wily old fox come galloping in to your call whether you shoot it or not so why deny one the opportunity to enjoy it all again through your (in my case occasional) own efforts in the comfort of your home? I know most fox shooters watch their recordings without posting on social media - far, far more times than they watch their wedding video!
The march of technology is relentless, that will not change - for example twenty years ago who would have thought that for a few hundred pounds you could shoot in pitch black without a high-powered lamp?
What will have to change is outlook and methods that is for sure.
🦊🦊
 
Hmm.
I am no expert on deer history but I suspect that the “one hour” requirement has it’s origins as a poaching prevention measure several centuries ago when deer were the preserve of the landed gentry. Times and deer numbers/spread have clearly changed over the intervening years to the point where night-shooting licences are common. If there was no deer problem presumably said licence would not be granted. Some call it progress, IMHO it is rightly still controlled.
For me “Kill videos”, like calling or stalking any living animal, are about being able to re-live the stalk which by far is where the real excitement and dare I say, pleasure come from. If it is the kill that floats one’s particular boat then I believe you are missing a very large part of the stalking experience and would be better employed playing video games. Call me old-fashioned but IMHO There is nothing close to the excitement of watching a wily old fox come galloping in to your call whether you shoot it or not so why deny one the opportunity to enjoy it all again through your (in my case occasional) own efforts in the comfort of your home? I know most fox shooters watch their recordings without posting on social media - far, far more times than they watch their wedding video!
The march of technology is relentless, that will not change - for example twenty years ago who would have thought that for a few hundred pounds you could shoot in pitch black without a high-powered lamp?
What will have to change is outlook and methods that is for sure.
🦊🦊
I can’t help feeling that the rise of night vision etc is just making the whole job a lot harder. Deer are now be pushed, stressed through hunting pressure for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

This has two effects

1) it will push them into the further reaches of any terratory and into the deepest and darkest woods etc. or right into the open areas where they cannot be approached.

2) they will pushed out and travel into areas where they are left in peace but not necessarily wanted - suburban gardens, nature reserves etc etc.

This incessant pressure just makes the whole job that much harder.

Much better to have long periods when the deer are left alone, then hit them hard for a couple of days. If it means having to bring in other stalkers then so be it.

This is the way it used to be done, especially for hind culls etc. and would be done with stalkers working together with each other.
 
🤦 The simplicity of the recording function has also bred a generation who must upload their kill video to every form of social media to demonstrate how much of a superstar they are.

The Blood Origins podcast explains this really well.

Hunters have been taking photos and videos of their kills for as long as it has been possible to do so, hundreds of years in fact. The difference is that before social media the only people that really ever saw these photos or videos were other hunters. They instantly understood the context as a fellow hunter and appreciated what was being shown to them. The hard work, the skill, the rarity, the amount of meat it would provide, the pride in what was achieved etc.

Now that same photo is put up for anyone to see and importantly people who don't hunt and have no idea of what it shows or represents other than someone bragging about a kill and worse, people who actively dislike hunting and killing.

We need to be remember this when posting anything in public. Remember that our intentions may not be clear to everyone and that the majority of people who see it may actively dislike it.
 
Back
Top