Doubling shotgun

[JRTC]

Afternoon all,

My shotgun, an old 12g Ugartechea boxlock s/s (from what I understand is basically the same as Aya yeoman) has a habit of doubliing when fired at a high birds but only on the front trigger. In typical English fashion, I have just cracked on with it but by firing back trigger first to prevent any accidental shoulder dislocation. I had a screaming cock pheasant come flying at me whilst I was backgunning on Saturday and in the heat of the moment went front trigger first and doubled into the poor bird, which hit home that this really needs addressing as heavens knows what could happen if I lent this gun to anybody or had a similar 'unthinking' moment.

Having read online, this could be caused by a myriad of reasons but chiefly the sears. I wonder if anybody on here has A.) expierenced this before on the same or similar gun and had it rectified, and B.) have any idea the cost for works?

I suspect this could likely be a write-off, which would be a great shame as the gun is become quite sentimental!

Thanks

 

[JG87]

Afternoon. sounds like a nasty surprise. I’m no gunsmith, but doubling on an older boxlock can be down to worn sears or tired springs, especially if it’s had a fair bit of use over the years. I’ve seen similar behaviour on an old Spanish s/s and a smith sorted it fairly quickly once he had it apart.
Might be worth getting someone reputable to take a look before you write it off. These things are often repairable if the rest of the gun is in good order, and definitely worth it if it has sentimental value. Hope you get it sorted..

 

[HistoricBore]

Why not try A. W. Rule in Somerton?
Did good work on my 1946 Webley.

HB

 

[old 30-06]

Hi JRTC, How sentimental ? You may pay heavily for your sentiment. I am sorry to be the one to tell you, but I think your gun is beyond economic repair. Also, does it have more than half choke in any barrel ? There are many side by side guns, Spanish and English, currently for sale at very realistic prices.

 

[cjm1066]

Until you know the cost of a repair its all speculation.

It might only need stripping and cleaning, that can be a DIY job, I have done AYA and recently a Laurona.

 

[old 30-06]

Hi cjm 1066, I admire your optimism. I had heavy trigger pulls on an AYA Yeoman, and scrapped the gun. A gunsmith was uneconomic, and no one else would have a go.

 

[enfieldspares]

If it hits high birds when back gunning it's beyond price! Get it fixed. It will not cost a massive amount as it's likely a minor fix.

 

[Greenmist]

Until you know the cost of a repair its all speculation.

It might only need stripping and cleaning, that can be a DIY job, I have done AYA and recently a Laurona.

I agree, start with a good clean

 

[old 30-06]

I am sorry, but I think some of you are not living in the real world ! The gun has developed a (severe) mechanical defect. A squirt of WD40 will not fix it.

 

[Heym SR20]

Key Question. Is it doubling because your finger is hitting the rear trigger or is it fault? Do a bump test. Load two empty cartridges or snap caps, safety off and bump the stock on the floor - use a bit of carpet to protect the butt- mimicking the recoil. Open the gun - if it ejects, one of the sears is not holding the hammer.

If the gun has never been serviced chances are oils have congealed and the sears are not properly seating. Easy enough fix for a competent smith.

 

[cjm1066]

Key Question. Is it doubling because your finger is hitting the rear trigger or is it fault? Do a bump test. Load two empty cartridges or snap caps, safety off and bump the stock on the floor - use a bit of carpet to protect the butt- mimicking the recoil. Open the gun - if it ejects, one of the sears is not holding the hammer.

If the gun has never been serviced chances are oils have congealed and the sears are not properly seating. Easy enough fix for a competent smith.

Exactly after 50 years the Laurona had gunge and some surface rust on the internal parts, all now cleaned and polished for the next 50.

 

[Heym SR20]

I don’t get this “not worth repairing” bit. Key part of a gun that you like and shoot well with is that you and it have developed a very good sound working relationship with each other.

Yes you can pick a cheap Spanish Side by side for £100. But it will very likely be 50 years old, never been serviced with all similar likely problems and it NOT your gun.

Spend £150 on having it serviced properly, or watch Jack Rowes excellent videos on YouTube, spend some time making some properly fitting turnscrews and learn the skills to clean it yourself.

A decent Boxlock ejector these days is now several hundred pounds second hand. If you want new, a cheap Turkish (which won’t last 50 years) is not huge chunks of change out of £1,000.

I had a good look at a new basic Beretta Side by Side on a shoot the other day. Best part of £3,000. It’s ok, but not nearly as nice handling as a proper British or Spanish made boxlock. A new AyA Boxlock is several thousand pounds.

 

[seedawood]

I am sorry, but I think some of you are not living in the real world ! The gun has developed a (severe) mechanical defect. A squirt of WD40 will not fix it.

"A quick squirt of WD40" is quite often the cause of this problem if it makes its way onto the sears.
If you are not confident to strip it yourself take it to a reputable gunsmith who will give it a proper clean and possibly replace a couple of springs or a sear. It will possibly outlast you before it needs doing again and a gun that you are familiar with and more importantly confident in is priceless. I still favour my 1950s Hellis box lock for that reason.

 

[Heym SR20]

"A quick squirt of WD40" is quite often the cause of this problem if it makes its way onto the sears.
If you are not confident to strip it yourself take it to a reputable gunsmith who will give it a proper clean and possibly replace a couple of springs or a sear. It will possibly outlast you before it needs doing again and a gun that you are familiar with and more importantly confident in is priceless. I still favour my 1950s Hellis box lock for that reason.

Agreed - wd40 gums and holds dirt. A competent gunsmith is what is required especially if new parts need fitting. These sorts of guns were built by hand - admittedly often forged and partly finished parts, but spares need either sourced or made from scratch. Fitting is a question of filing, polishing then hardening and tempering and final hard fitting. The latter processes are essential to longevity. An unhardened sear will work - for a time but will then fail. A too hard sear will also break. What is needed is a properly hardened peace that has its temper drawn to leave a tough nose and a strong lever.

It’s the gunsmiths skill and knowledge of these processes that you pay for. They know how to get it just right.

 

[andyk]

I had this problem with a Bettinsoli. Old oil/grease had hardened and was causing the barrel selector to stick between both sears, so when the trigger was pulled it lifted both and doubled.

A thorough clean and application of a lighter oil solved the problem.

It may not be so simple in your case, but you may as well find out.

 

[Greenmist]

I am sorry, but I think some of you are not living in the real world ! The gun has developed a (severe) mechanical defect. A squirt of WD40 will not fix it.

Squirt of WD40 is not a good clean, it might not be a mechanical defect, it could be a load of detritus in the trigger mechanism thats causing the issue. until its taken apart a looked at,no one knows

 

[Heym SR20]

Here is how to strip a Boxlock Shotgun



Abd here is how to put it all back together

 

[cjm1066]

CS440 - Sear spring L/H

We ship worldwide - Airgun, Shotgun & Rifle spares, parts and accessories for for Air Arms, BSA, Crosman, Diana, Gamo, Relum, Webley, Weihrauch and more

twchambers.co.uk

A sear spring is cheap, what I do is send the spring to chambers and let them match it.

 

[welshwarrior]

Get it into a gunsmith not gunshop. I’ve seen happen from gummed up internals but most often a worn sear and or spring neither a hard fix if you know what you are doing.

 

[JRTC]

Thank you everyone for your responses. All very much appreciated and interesting to consider, especially the comments RE value of repairing a gun that I know well vs buying another that I don't know and will likely have the same problems arise in future.
My experience of stripping weapons down is only as extensive as an SA80, so I think I will rely on somebody with a bit more experience - gunsmiths exist for a reason! Pray and hope that it is just a bit of gunk and nothing more sinister to repair. That said I will watch those videos and will consider giving it a go in future.